MT scoring video

[Regel]

I was trying to understand MT scoring and found lack of videos on that. So I made one myself.

What I did is I took Tony Myers' guidelines (MuayThai judging article USA.pdf) and a recent fight with what I thought was an non-trivial win by decision (Yodpanomrung vs Littewada 7.3.17). And then I graded every strike using Myers' A-D grading system (no grade = no score):



I, personally, love watching grades popping up from the strikes, and it's also quite educational (it was for me, at least).

So, I'm looking forward for your comments on grading and the video in general. In the first place, on grading cause I'm just a noob with a guideline. You thoughts about the Myers' guideline will also be interesting to hear.

 

[verrix]

A running tally or some visual indication of how each grade scores, like a meter being filled for each fighter, would make this perfect.

 

[Regel]

A running tally or some visual indication of how each grade scores, like a meter being filled for each fighter, would make this perfect.

True. First thing on to-do list.

 

[SuperLuigi]

The teeps seem a bit high on the scoring. Did Myers specifically say something about that?

 

[verrix]

The teeps seem a bit high on the scoring. Did Myers specifically say something about that?

Yeah. Doesn't gel with what I know about the scoring, but here it is:

If a teep lands anywhere on the body or leg and cause the boxer being teeped to fall to the floor it would be a ‘B+ grade’ score

If a teep lands anywhere on the body and cause the boxer being teeped to lose position, this would be a ‘B grade’ score

If a teep lands anywhere on the body but causes the boxer being teeped not to move, this would be a ‘D grade’ score

 

[Regel]

The teeps seem a bit high on the scoring. Did Myers specifically say something about that?

He grades them B like clear round kick, IF they cause an opponent to lose a position. I might have used the notion of "lose position" too loosely, treating any step back as such. Perhaps, only significant push backs should count.

 

[Cocakillbana]

I think this A scores better than B and counting techniques stuff doesn't really apply to how a fight is scored, but rather comes down to experience of viewing fights and having a high understanding of what's going on. It's no coincidence that judges and gamblers are usually lockstep with each other. I could be wrong, but that's the way it seems to me. I mean, the blue fighter could land twice the amount of hits, but if he were to get spun on the ropes and take a couple hard knees to the gut it could immediately put him behind. Gamblers and judges immediately recognize that as a significant moment. How a fighter absorbs a hit, how they respond to a hit, how they move about the ring and their body positioning are all important. In ways that aren't seen in MMA, boxing, or kickboxing, a small mishap or mistake can change the course of a fight.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I read somewhere a long time ago to think of the fight as a story, rather than an accumulation of points. It almost always works fine, the letters on this fight actually had me second guessing who won when I could easily tell who won when I originally watch it. The problem is when there are hair splitting matches like Sangmanee vs Thanonchai I have no idea who won when the gamblers can still clearly tell. I guess it just comes with years and years.

 

[shincheckin]

I was trying to understand MT scoring and found lack of videos on that. So I made one myself.

What I did is I took Tony Myers' guidelines (MuayThai judging article USA.pdf) and a recent fight with what I thought was an non-trivial win by decision (Yodpanomrung vs Littewada 7.3.17). And then I graded every strike using Myers' A-D grading system (no grade = no score):



I, personally, love watching grades popping up from the strikes, and it's also quite educational (it was for me, at least).

So, I'm looking forward for your comments on grading and the video in general. In the first place, on grading cause I'm just a noob with a guideline. You thoughts about the Myers' guideline will also be interesting to hear.

hey I wanted to ask you if you would be willing to score my fight? It was a close fight. Some say I should have won. I feel I lost the fight because my opponent outworked me, meaning even though I blocked all his shots, the judges still counted them. Do they score blocked shots as well? If you throw a 123 and I cleanly block them all, do they count that? Thats what I felt they did in my last one. That and the fact he caught my kicks and took me down alot. But the takedown was more of an MMA slam than muay thai.

 

[Kanka]

hey I wanted to ask you if you would be willing to score my fight? It was a close fight. Some say I should have won. I feel I lost the fight because my opponent outworked me, meaning even though I blocked all his shots, the judges still counted them. Do they score blocked shots as well? If you throw a 123 and I cleanly block them all, do they count that? Thats what I felt they did in my last one. That and the fact he caught my kicks and took me down alot. But the takedown was more of an MMA slam than muay thai.

Well did you counter with your own shot after blocking?

 

[shincheckin]

Well did you counter with your own shot after blocking?

sometimes yes sometimes no, lol

 

[Regel]

I think this A scores better than B and counting techniques stuff doesn't really apply to how a fight is scored, but rather comes down to experience of viewing fights and having a high understanding of what's going on. It's no coincidence that judges and gamblers are usually lockstep with each other. I could be wrong, but that's the way it seems to me. I mean, the blue fighter could land twice the amount of hits, but if he were to get spun on the ropes and take a couple hard knees to the gut it could immediately put him behind. Gamblers and judges immediately recognize that as a significant moment. How a fighter absorbs a hit, how they respond to a hit, how they move about the ring and their body positioning are all important. In ways that aren't seen in MMA, boxing, or kickboxing, a small mishap or mistake can change the course of a fight.

So, judges actually follow gambler's odds, while gambler's odds just fluctuate according to gambler's expectations of fight's result? WOW, that's almost like a stock market. If so, that's quite a different story rather than counting scores, indeed.

Btw, is there any chance to follow the gambler's odds during the fight?

the letters on this fight actually had me second guessing who won when I could easily tell who won when I originally watch it.

How? What were the the most significant markers here? Sweeps?

 

[Regel]

hey I wanted to ask you if you would be willing to score my fight? It was a close fight. Some say I should have won. I feel I lost the fight because my opponent outworked me, meaning even though I blocked all his shots, the judges still counted them. Do they score blocked shots as well? If you throw a 123 and I cleanly block them all, do they count that? Thats what I felt they did in my last one. That and the fact he caught my kicks and took me down alot. But the takedown was more of an MMA slam than muay thai.

Can you post a video of your fight here?

 

[shincheckin]

Can you post a video of your fight here?

sure thing here it is!

https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=cC4IYX8Trxs

 

[verrix]

sure thing here it is!

https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=cC4IYX8Trxs

You have to use the public link, not the link in your video manager.

 

[shincheckin]

You have to use the public link, not the link in your video manager.

woops. hahha

this shoudl work

 

[SuperLuigi]

How? What were the the most significant markers here? Sweeps?

I rewatched the fight just now to give you a mini breakdown:

Spoiler

TL;DR: I had Rit with a narrow lead going into 5 then Yod sealed it with that sweep and some good hits. The way I have come to understand and score fights is definitely going to sound weird, but I will try to explain it. A big part of it is reading body language and the fight progression. Yod started off showing a lot of confidence, then Rit started picking up steam quickly in R3 and you could see how Yod couldn't seem quite as confident. So at this point Rit is trying to say to the judges "this is how the fight is going, in r4 I'm going to gain even more momentum and do even better" and Yod is trying to say to the judges "Nah thats BS, I'm in control here, I've got this." Then r4 it was really back and forth but Yod landed that nice sweep late in the round, so its not like Yod dominated or anything, but r4 really shot down the idea that Rit was gaining momentum as the fight went on. Then r5 Yod comes out and lands that sweep and it basically confirmed that his earlier sweeps really were him being the slick guy whose got the situation under control. Still a very close fight though.

 

[Regel]

I rewatched the fight just now to give you a mini breakdown:

Awesome, thanks! I see now, what you mean by "thinking of the fight as a story".

woops. hahha

this shoudl work

Good fight! From that distance it's hard to tell which strikes were properly blocked, but speaking of 123 combo (jab-cross-hook), it doesn't score much even if it lands clearly but doesn't make noticeable impact. All the more, if you block it. I'm pretty sure the takedowns were the main reason behind the decision. Those might be scored high when done properly.

 

[shincheckin]

Awesome, thanks! I see now, what you mean by "thinking of the fight as a story".



Good fight! From that distance it's hard to tell which strikes were properly blocked, but speaking of 123 combo (jab-cross-hook), it doesn't score much even if it lands clearly but doesn't make noticeable impact. All the more, if you block it. I'm pretty sure the takedowns were the main reason behind the decision. Those might be scored high when done properly.

thanks man yeah i watched the video today and realized its too far away to tell which shots i blocked and which ones I didnt. I blocked just about everything. I want to say he caught me with 1 good punch, 1 good knee, and he caught alot of my kicks and took me down, kinda mma style. I think he simply outworked me and all those take downs is what did it, he also fights mma. hes pretty cool guy, me and him are friends now. I felt like I landed power shots, where as they counted his shots i blocked. I think he won fair and square, i was hoping to just see how close you would score it, but yeah vids too far.

 

[Regel]

I've made another scoring video on the last bout which Saenchai lost (vs Petchmorrakot 9th Oct 2014).
It's a dogfight and first time I saw it, it seemed to me that Saenchai had heavily outscored Petchmorrakot. I always wanted to make an accurate breakdown to see, what's the deal. And here it is:


Enjoy.

In short, a number of Saenchai's sweeps were unclear and should not been scored. A very close fight anyway and I still don't see how Petchmorrakot could know he's ahead in the 5th round.