Modern Boxers vs Early Boxers

[mozfonky]

"Art and science" evolves far faster than primitive/physical skills.

just saying that running is something that anyone knows how to do, doubt you'll see much difference in today sprinters as far as which leg and arm they put forward at what time and Jessie Owens or whoever. Men have been fighting forever too, but based on how the best in the world looked in turn of the century films, it took time for punches to be developed. To me, Jack Johnson's punches look like arm punches, Dempsey looked a little funny in certain fights too, Sugar Ray Robinson, Joe Louis were perfect in terms of maximizing the human body for punching, it's not something that happened overnight. Cavemen didn't know a thing about jabbing or parrying I'm sure.

 

[Cracky]

just saying that running is something that anyone knows how to do, doubt you'll see much difference in today sprinters as far as which leg and arm they put forward at what time and Jessie Owens or whoever. Men have been fighting forever too, but based on how the best in the world looked in turn of the century films, it took time for punches to be developed. To me, Jack Johnson's punches look like arm punches, Dempsey looked a little funny in certain fights too, Sugar Ray Robinson, Joe Louis were perfect in terms of maximizing the human body for punching, it's not something that happened overnight. Cavemen didn't know a thing about jabbing or parrying I'm sure.

This is absolutely true... but as the game changed so did the motivations of the trainers and fighters..

There is a peak for everything though. A point in which it can't be improved upon anymore.. I believe boxing peaked in the middle of the 20th century..40's-60's. I think that training fell off after that, and I also think that the need to do everything faster that was moving a cross the globe, also effected sports in a negative way.. I don't think boxing is the only sport that has suffered. Basketball has suffered.. They say if you wanna teach your kids how to play the game, have them watch girls basketball. Because girls still practice the fundamentals where guys tend to play more street style ball..and that is a big reason that team USA hasn't been as dominant the last few Olympics.. because fundamentals fell off in America and teams over seas used them to give us hell even though we had 10 times the talent.. they didn't want to take time to set up high % shots..they wanted to show boat.. Baseball too.. we havent had a .400 hitter since Ted Williams.. Japan and Cuba focus on old school fundamentals over the glamour of the long ball.. and they produce better players as a result..pitchers too.. boxing is the same.. we don't teach fighters the fundamentals anymore either.. The world is speeding up.. and everybody wants everything now.. nobody has the patience to learn the game to the level that the old school guys did.. they are learning just enough.. adding their athletic superiority to it.. and sinking or swimming.. and then there's the few guys that were patient.. Floyd Mayweather.. Bhop.. Toney.. these guys took the time to really understand and break down every aspect of the game.. and they all had a lot of success as a result imo.. Sometimes it is just hilarious to think about how easily Toney dominated his opponents.. even when he was obviously out of shape.. that's all because they weren't ready to face somebody that had invested that much in learning the ins and outs of the sport. These 3 guys.. and maybe JMM and V. Klitchko.. you could send them back in time and they'd compete well in any era.. I can't say the same about anybody else because the old school guys understood how to limit somebodies athletic advantage. They had better timing, could cut a ring off better, feinted, set their shots up better, etc.

 

[Seano]

This is still going?

29 pages and all we've proven is there is no real difference. Not one anyone can seem to explain anyway.

 

[Seano]

. These 3 guys.. and maybe JMM and V. Klitchko.. you could send them back in time and they'd compete well in any era.. I can't say the same about anybody else because the old school guys understood how to limit somebodies athletic advantage. They had better timing, could cut a ring off better, feinted, set their shots up better, etc.

So you don't think say, Lennox Lewis could hang with Primo Carnera? Or Max Baer? Just stop with this already.

 

[Cracky]

So you don't think say, Lennox Lewis could hang with Primo Carnera? Or Max Baer? Just stop with this already.

I mentioned fighters that were still fighting.. Lennox had a somewhat old school style.. manage the action before the clinch.. use the clinch to weaken your opponent..

 

[Seano]

I mentioned fighters that were still fighting.. Lennox had a somewhat old school style.. manage the action before the clinch.. use the clinch to weaken your opponent..

So basically we still have fighters like fighters from any era.

thanks.

/thread.

 

[Cracky]

So basically we still have fighters like fighters from any era.

thanks.

/thread.

As I've said throughout this thread.. there are fighters who practice old school techniques today.. they're aren't many of them though.. and they aren't having to face as many like minded fighters as a result.. steel sharpens steel.. goo goo ah fies goo.

Lewis was a hybrid.. he began his career as a huuuge and superior athlete that just raged at his opponents looking for the ko.. McCall knocked him out.. he went to Steward, and learned to fight in a way that wouldn't be out of place in the Jack Johnson era.. more hugging and wrestling than fighting..This plus his natural athleticism.. still Ray Mercer gave him all kinds of hell by simply using a jab.. do you think a simple jab would have disrupted jack johnson?

 

[Seano]

As I've said throughout this thread.. there are fighters who practice old school techniques today.. ?

Thats because the sport isn't as different as some would have you believe.

 

[Confucamus]

"I mentioned fighters that were still fighting.. Lennox had a somewhat old school style.. manage the action before the clinch.. use the clinch to weaken your opponent.."

Hey Cracky, based on those two aspects of fighting, would you have classified John Ruiz as an old school throwback as well?? That seemed like his style too, although he didn't have Lennox's size or power.

 

[Cracky]

Thats because the sport isn't as different as some would have you believe.

But it is... because steel sharpens steel.. there is less good competition to challenge and sharpen Mayweather than there was for Leonard, Robinson, Lamotta, etc. It's one thing to use old school techniques.. it's another thing to use them against a fighter that actually presents a threat to you because he knows how to counter those techniques.

 

[Cracky]

"I mentioned fighters that were still fighting.. Lennox had a somewhat old school style.. manage the action before the clinch.. use the clinch to weaken your opponent.."

Hey Cracky, based on those two aspects of fighting, would you have classified John Ruiz as an old school throwback as well?? That seemed like his style too, although he didn't have Lennox's size or power.

Yes.. and not in a good way.. the Jack Johnson era included lots of wrestling because the fights went 40-50 rounds..this was used to tire out your opponent so that you could get a ko later... I think guys like Ruiz that use the same tactic in 10-12 round fights are simply trying to limit the exchanges so that they can compete with superior athletes that would otherwise blow them out with activity on the cards..

This is a solid technique that I have seen used by an old ass hippy in my gym vs. a young pro we have.. it works.. slug and hug.. but it's supposed to be limited to 3 uses per bout and then penalized.. Bhop, Lewis, Jack Johnson, John Ruiz, Ricky Hatton etc.. all should have been penalized quite often imo.