Minimum Responsible Qualities and Accomplishments for Amateur MMA

[biscuitsbrah]

Meh. I think you need to know enough not to get seriously hurt. Physicality doesn't really play into that, though of course it matters a great deal if you actually want to win. And powerlifting is a really bad measure of the physicality you need for MMA. I'd much rather someone be able to do 50 pushups, 15 pullups, 100 BW squats, all without stopping, and be able to run 3 miles in under 20 minutes than have a great squat.

In terms of what you ability level should be, like I said not getting hurt is the main thing. So you should have some BJJ training and some striking training just because those are the essential defensive disciplines in MMA, but I don't know that you have to be an expert at either. I will not be a striking expert when I take my first fight (though I hope to have had several ammy Muay Thai matches before I do), but I think I will know enough to not get seriously injured right off the bat. In general I'd hope that anyone fighting MMA would have really strong skills in at least one discipline, but I don't think it should be a requirement. Lots of people just train MMA solely for fighting MMA, so they're not going to have accomplishments in the individual disciplines, and that's fine.

Finally, I'd say that if you're looking to fight you have to accept the possibility of getting seriously hurt. It's a combat sport. No matter how well prepared you are, injury is possible if not likely. People should definitely go into it with their eyes open not deceiving themselves about what can happen, but trying to set some standards to avoid injury in a sport whose goal is hurting your opponent so badly that he gives up or the ref steps in is a somewhat quixotic goal.

Id have to agree with this standard. 2-5 grappling tournaments in intermediate or advanced. Doesnt need to win as long as they dont get destroyed. 2-3 kickboxing as well. Should be a winning record and definitely shouldnt get finished.

 

[ijustwannasurf]

It sounds like you want something like the Shooto amateur system. They do very much the same thing, requiring you to win enough to rank up to higher divisions.

100%.
I think if you brought a well-written plan to an open-minded commission, you could get it rolling on a state level.

 

[FatherSauce]

It sounds like you want something like the Shooto amateur system. They do very much the same thing, requiring you to win enough to rank up to higher divisions.

I actually saw the shooto set up in a manga and really liked the idea. Wish it was a thing here.

 

[Daniel Fox]

I have been to some of the local Amateur MMA fights, and it appears that the qualities and accomplishment in a lot of cases are a warm body and a pulse. Someone is going to have to take charge of AMMY MMA before someone gets seriously hurt.

 

[Balto]

I would rather see a lower level MMA competition available. Like something below what is currently considered amateur. Something with shin pads, gloves, and head gear. I would like to do something like this with no interest in being pro or a high level amateur.

This already exists in the state of Pennsylvania. It's been that way for about ten years or so.

Your first amateur MMA bouts have more restrictive rules (shin pads + no striking to the head on the ground). After you have three fights under your belt, you can choose to waive those restrictions in your later fights. Or you can choose not to.

Seems like there is a lot of interest in something like this from the thread responses. If anyone is serious, just take an amateur fight in PA. There are several huge population centers in or near it (Philly, NYC, DC) so really not out of the way at all to get to.

 

[SummerStriker]

Shinpads would be huge. You need them in entry level MMA for the same reason you need them in entry level kick boxing.

I mean, I guess you could choose to not throw or check kicks but fuck man, come on.

 

[maximus__]

I don't know if there is a minimum for ammy mma. I think coaches need to be smart and match people up fairly so that both fighters get some experience from the fight.

Pro mma should have a decent background to not get murdered and be able to handle themselves in all domains.
I love strength training but it's one of the least important aspects.

Where I am from a local gym uses modified rules and matches people based on experience in smoker type fights. It gives people some exposure and they can see whether they really like mma or just training for it.

 

[cakemuncher]

The minimum standard is having massive balls.

Some of the people fighting in amateur MMA have virtually no striking nor grappling skills, yet they are still prepared to face their opponents inside the cage.

I kind of envy them lol

 

[MadSquabbles500]

The minimum standard is having massive balls.

Some of the people fighting in amateur MMA have virtually no striking nor grappling skills, yet they are still prepared to face their opponents inside the cage.

I kind of envy them lol

Maybe they street fought a lot. I wonder how many are ex-cons that gained experience in prison.

 

[BrownKid]

I'd like to see this. I've personally wondered about the viability of having actual amateur MMA tournaments with bigger gloves, shin guards, headgear, more strikes off limits (probably no knees to the head and no elbows like ammy MT), and no ground striking (just submission wrestling). Something you could do every few weeks rather than a few times a year like current amateur MMA.

Do you even Kudo, bruv?

 

[SummerStriker]

If we're talking entry level MMA, I wish you could win by pin.

There is little more dominant than pinning someone. In my opinion, if you can hold someone down so that they can only get up when you let them, you are proven dominant.

Isn't a pin in Judo 30 seconds? Maybe in MMA it should be 45 to give some time for the rabbit punches to do something.

 

[Uchi Mata]

If we're talking entry level MMA, I wish you could win by pin.

There is little more dominant than pinning someone. In my opinion, if you can hold someone down so that they can only get up when you let them, you are proven dominant.

Isn't a pin in Judo 30 seconds? Maybe in MMA it should be 45 to give some time for the rabbit punches to do something.

But you're not hurting them. Who cares if you pin me all day? I'm not going to starve to death. You have to do damage while controlling, and those attempts to do damage are what give me space to get back to guard.

 

[flikerstance]

in a few months im starting a kudo like sambo tournament so older people and kids can compete ina safe environment with boxing head gear mma training gloves and shin guards the athletic commission here said as long as there is head gear they dont need to be involved

 

[SummerStriker]

But you're not hurting them. Who cares if you pin me all day? I'm not going to starve to death. You have to do damage while controlling, and those attempts to do damage are what give me space to get back to guard.

You're not hurting them, but if it was done in real life, like say a robber, they'd go to jail. If it was done to another kid in school, the bottom guy would be made fun of for losing. If it was in war, someone would walk up and stab the bottom guy. If done on am empty street, the bottom guy would probably lose interest in fighting.

People not minding being pinned is a sort of fake thing that comes from the rules. Make pins a win, and watch the bottom person give their all to get out and give up submissions in the process. It'd be way better.

 

[Uchi Mata]

You're not hurting them, but if it was done in real life, like say a robber, they'd go to jail. If it was done to another kid in school, the bottom guy would be made fun of for losing. If it was in war, someone would walk up and stab the bottom guy. If done on am empty street, the bottom guy would probably lose interest in fighting.

People not minding being pinned is a sort of fake thing that comes from the rules. Make pins a win, and watch the bottom person give their all to get out and give up submissions in the process. It'd be way better.

People only don't mind being pinned if they can't be punched. That's why I don't like your idea. There's already a way to disincent people from being on bottom: it's harder to defend strikes. No one chills on the bottom in MMA unless the top guy isn't doing shit.

 

[SummerStriker]

People only don't mind being pinned if they can't be punched. That's why I don't like your idea. There's already a way to disincent people from being on bottom: it's harder to defend strikes. No one chills on the bottom in MMA unless the top guy isn't doing shit.

It'd also disincentive strikes so amateurs don't get their head's bounced off the mat as often.

 

[Crotalis]

It'd also disincentive strikes so amateurs don't get their head's bounced off the mat as often.

Simply disallowing strikes to the head while on the ground protects the fighters while also discouraging lay and pray. I think allowing a "win by pin" at the amateur level sets people up for failure at the next level since winning by pin would create very different strategies.

I also think 4 years and having a power-lifting requirement are all a bit much. Most kick boxers take their first fight within 12-18 months of starting their training (and many will have had a smoker or two before that) and simply requiring a general level of fitness is more logical than requiring a specific weight lifting certification (which, imo, really isn't terribly applicable to mma anyway).

At my gym they require 5 or 6 grappling comps, a handful of "stand-up bouts" (boxing, kickboxing, whatever floats your boat), a successful fight team tryout and a minimum amount of time consistently practicing with the fight team. Note you don't have to win those grappling comps - you just need to show consistent improvement and not get destroyed. For the striking, you need to not be getting knocked out and to be putting in a solid effort (where, even if you're losing, you're making it hard on the judges).

This system has spawned two UFC contracts, and a Belabor contract so it seems to work.

EDIT:
That last sentence is unintentionally misleading. We do have guys with those contracts, but one of them used the gym (in a positive way) as a stepping stone to a more well known gym prior to getting his contract.

 

[MaxMMA]

I meet a lot of people who are excited to take an MMA fight, largely because they are fans of the sport and think it is the mostly manly to engage in.

To me, taking an MMA fight means you should be an expert in multiple disciplines. That's what makes you a mixed martial artist.

These are the requirements I'd give someone for taking their first MMA fight:

Strong enough to enter Class IV Powerlifting Competition: https://www.lift.net/2013/05/09/classification-standards-for-raw-elite-uspa/

First place in expert NAGA no gi competition

Three amateur kickboxing matches and wins

The ability to walk into any amateur MMA gym in the area and spar with everyone.

As someone who has been to a lot of local and regional MMA events, many of the fights are shit shows and many losses are due to the straight lack of physique or knowledge of the individual fighting. Sometimes this results in preventable injury.

I hate seeing people treat MMA like late 80's backyard cage fighting. The time for that has gone.

Highly unlikely that anyone would do all this before competing in an MMA fight. You can scratch powerlifting right off of that list as it is the least important of the 4 you mentioned.

You mention placing first at a naga no gi expert, which is no cake walk, and could take someone years to get to that level of nogi submission grappling proficiency to win. Spending years training specifically to win at that division would take away time they could be working other skills that are far more important to a fighter than strictly just sub grappling. Anyone that fights MMA for a significant amount of time will eventually acquire the sub grappling skills equivalent of someone that could win expert naga.

More often than not, ammy fighters are people that have extensive experience in 1 art, decided to try MMA and acquired a general understanding of the other arts. That's why you see so many "shit shows" in regional MMA. You have people that are pretty good at one style, but don't know how to employ that style against someone doing something completely different against them under a rule set, that is completely different to any 1 style of fighting.

What it boils down to, at least where I'm from, is piss poor "Combat Wrestling" skills in the cage. Which is probably the most important skill for an MMA fighter to have, not only to be prepared to control the dynamic action of a limited rules bout, but also because of the way MMA fights are judged.

All that time spent powerlifting and getting a fighter ready to win expert at naga could have been spent giving the fighter a solid "MMA Wrestling" foundation, a good understanding of GnP principles, and a solid foundation in high percentage submission hold offense/defense.

 

[Crotalis]

All that time spent powerlifting and getting a fighter ready to win expert at naga could have been spent giving the fighter a solid "MMA Wrestling" foundation, a good understanding of GnP principles, and a solid foundation in high percentage submission hold offense/defense.

This is exactly why, at the gym where I train, you don't have to win those grappling tournaments you enter. Only a few people place top 3 at each weight class and, realistically, there's not a ton of tournaments to be attended in our local area (most folks training for army MMA don't have the time/money to travel a whole lot to other areas).

Most of those tournaments are going to be won by people who are doing grappling for the sake of grappling. They're specialists at that activity and have spent a huge amount of time training for that rule set. IMO, it's unfair and unnecessary to require someone to win those tournaments if they're real goal is MMA.

 

[rmongler]

If we're talking entry level MMA, I wish you could win by pin.

There is little more dominant than pinning someone. In my opinion, if you can hold someone down so that they can only get up when you let them, you are proven dominant.

Isn't a pin in Judo 30 seconds? Maybe in MMA it should be 45 to give some time for the rabbit punches to do something.

I've often had the same though; an easy way for a more deterministic MMA scoring system, or perhaps a drilling system rather, is just to take a given grappling rule set, and then make strikes legal.

I think scoring by riding time in general, and victory by pinning in particular, most accurately reflects the danger of strikes, without actually involving the danger of strikes. Will it influence peoples training strategy? Absolutely; in a good way i'd argue. People will work harder to achieve dominant position, and work harder to avoid inferior position, as it should be. The skills are highly transferable in the event leather actually starts flying.