Manafort Pleas, Thank you (Investigation+ thread v. 23)

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Madmick said:
Trump/Cohen themselves originally cooked up the defense that Cohen paid off Stormy as a "campaign contribution" to Trump, and that's precisely what got Cohen and Trump-- or rather Trump's children-- into trouble. It was illegal, and Cohen was convicted for that. Nevertheless, Trump had "Executive 1" and "Executive 2" (almost certainly Don Jr. and Eric who are on that board) coordinate to pay Cohen back out of the Trump charity using phony invoices-- this is illegal. That's the case headed to the southern district of New York, so Trump doesn't have pardoning power while it's the most direct and serious threat to the Trump family that has ever materialized.

Trump has been caught lying red-handed, so to speak:
Trump says he only knew about Michael Cohen's payments to women 'later on'
Lie. Cohen has testified that Trump directed him to make the payments, and the tape interview that @Rational Poster cited is proof that Trump knew about the payments before the election-- in September 2016. It would have been less troublesome for Trump if those funds had come out of his campaign coffers directly, but Trump was too busy trying to cover up the fact he fucked Stormy Daniels while his wife was pregnant, and then paid her to keep it quiet about it years later when he decided to run for President.

The man who made the payment is directly testifying that this is why he made the payment. That is proof.

Trump can't even get his story straight with the facts:
It was my own money, says defiant Donald Trump
The problem with that is that his official accounts show no debts in 2017 to Cohen, and the direct payment to Cliffords was made by Cohen himself.

"Proving" it to be a campaign contribution, at this point, is the least of Trump's worries. That was Cohen's crime. Trump's crime is how he tried paying it back to keep it quiet, but this time, his fall guys are going to be his kids. It wasn't "his own money". It was his charity's money-- paid out by his kids who run the charity. I guess you missed it in a past thread:

Click to expand...



I’d like to mention trump also changed his story 3 times

1) he never met these women

2) Cohen paid them

3) he paid them but it wasn’t illegal


That right there is enough proof of his guilt
 
‘one of the wettest we’ve ever seen from the standpoint of water’ - Donald ‘sage’ Trump
 
Would you please stop wining about Hillary Clinton in this thread? This is about Mueller's investigation, if you want to talk about Hillary, make a thread for it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Madmick said:
Trump/Cohen themselves originally cooked up the defense that Cohen paid off Stormy as a "campaign contribution" to Trump, and that's precisely what got Cohen and Trump-- or rather Trump's children-- into trouble. It was illegal, and Cohen was convicted for that. Nevertheless, Trump had "Executive 1" and "Executive 2" (almost certainly Don Jr. and Eric who are on that board) coordinate to pay Cohen back out of the Trump charity using phony invoices-- this is illegal. That's the case headed to the southern district of New York, so Trump doesn't have pardoning power while it's the most direct and serious threat to the Trump family that has ever materialized.

Trump has been caught lying red-handed, so to speak:
Trump says he only knew about Michael Cohen's payments to women 'later on'
Lie. Cohen has testified that Trump directed him to make the payments, and the tape interview that @Rational Poster cited is proof that Trump knew about the payments before the election-- in September 2016. It would have been less troublesome for Trump if those funds had come out of his campaign coffers directly, but Trump was too busy trying to cover up the fact he fucked Stormy Daniels while his wife was pregnant, and then paid her to keep it quiet about it years later when he decided to run for President.

The man who made the payment is directly testifying that this is why he made the payment. That is proof.

Trump can't even get his story straight with the facts:
It was my own money, says defiant Donald Trump
The problem with that is that his official accounts show no debts in 2017 to Cohen, and the direct payment to Cliffords was made by Cohen himself.

"Proving" it to be a campaign contribution, at this point, is the least of Trump's worries. That was Cohen's crime. Trump's crime is how he tried paying it back to keep it quiet, but this time, his fall guys are going to be his kids. It wasn't "his own money". It was his charity's money-- paid out by his kids who run the charity. I guess you missed it in a past thread:

Click to expand...

I don't think it's been established that Trump used the charity to pay Cohen back for paying off the whores. The charity investigation is being pursed by the State Attorney General in NY not the Southern District. The Southern District is federal, they were the ones that Mueller referred Cohen's case for bank fraud and the Taxi Medallions to.
 
Mod note:
The guidelines are very clear. Numerous warnings have been given. Please stop derailing this.
 
vengeful said:
I don't think it's been established that Trump used the charity to pay Cohen back for paying off the whores.
Click to expand...
It's crazy that this is where we are for leadership.

I don't see how we can complain about any social problem, when we elect such a morally bankrupt man to lead.
 
vengeful said:
I don't think it's been established that Trump used the charity to pay Cohen back for paying off the whores. The charity investigation is being pursed by the State Attorney General in NY not the Southern District. The Southern District is federal, they were the ones that Mueller referred Cohen's case for bank fraud and the Taxi Medallions to.
Click to expand...
It has been established, and in fact, his children have been named as the defendants in the case-- including the golden girl Ivanka:
Attorney General Underwood Announces Lawsuit Against Donald J. Trump Foundation And Its Board Of Directors For Extensive And Persistent Violations Of State And Federal Law

Cliffs:
Trump Foundation asks for dismissal of NY attorney general's lawsuit
CNN said:
The attorney general's suit contends the Trump Foundation used the tax-deductible donations in at least five instances that benefited Trump or businesses he controls, including a $100,000 payment to settle legal claims against his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida. The lawsuit contains a note from Trump, which alleges that he personally directed his accounting staff to draw the $100,000 payment from the assets of the foundation to pay a legal settlement at his resort.
The suit also alleges a $158,000 payment to settle legal claims against his Trump National Golf Club in 2008 from a hole-in-one tournament; and a $10,000 payment at a charity auction to purchase a painting of Trump that was displayed at the Trump National Doral in Miami.
The attorney general says in the lawsuit that any personal, legal or business transactions not having to do with the charity should have been made from his personal or business accounts.
Click to expand...
They have granted immunity to the longtime Trump executive, Allen Weiselberg, and accepted, who had been named as the Treasurer to the Trump Foundation (the charity) for a decade without his knowledge. His name and signature were on tons of documents. They were using his name to justify and cover their internal, nepotistic, illegal financing schemes.

These people are as crooked as swamp monsters get.

It is Southern District prosecutors who are trying to case, but yes, you appear to be correct about where they will try it, because it is headed to the NY State Supreme Court under the direction of the NY Attorney General (Barbara Underwood). I guess this has to do with SDNY prosecutors having a greater unique autonomy, and the fact that Trump stands accused of violating both federal and state finance laws within the state of New York itself. He's in massive trouble for all kinds of charity fraud. The Veteran's Charity he held was a campaign fundraiser, but Trump tried to write it off as charity fundraiser (even though he got caught not actually forwarding promised payments to the military charities he promised he would, and deposited it in his coffers, instead).
New York Prosecutors May Pose a Bigger Threat to Trump Than Mueller
The Atlantic said:
“This is a classic move in investigations of a criminal organization,” said Patrick Cotter, a former federal prosecutor who was part of the team that convicted the Gambino family boss John Gotti. “They’re moving up the ladder. Peripheral characters are given immunity, witnesses testify, but they’re ultimately keeping their eye on the prize.”

SDNY’s aggressive pursuit of the Mafia and similarly structured organizations earned it a nickname, the Sovereign District of New York, and allowed it a little more leeway and independence from the Justice Department than most U.S. attorney’s offices enjoy, Cotter said. It is also arguably subject to less oversight than Mueller’s probe, which is being overseen directly by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. “I think there’s a lot of truth to that sovereignty notion,” Cotter said. “Their strike zone is bigger in terms of DOJ supervision.”

The SDNY investigation has prompted comparisons to a mob roll-up—of the kind, ironically, that Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani oversaw in the 1980s while he was a prosecutor in New York. “It resembles a mob case in so many ways,” said Elie Honig, a former assistant U.S. attorney who successfully prosecuted more than 100 members and associates of La Cosa Nostra.

“If you were to just strip the violence out of a mob case, you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference,” Honig said. “From the structure,” with one person at the head of the organization, “to the notion of loyalty, even the president’s own language is distressingly moblike.” My colleague Jeffrey Goldberg wrote Thursday that in Trump’s comments this week about Manafort and Cohen, he heard “echoes of many conversations I had while trying to understand the culture of organized crime.”
Click to expand...
As you can see, this was all tied up in the same people Mueller is pursuing, and that ultimately traces back all the way to Trump's kids themselves.

It's remarkable to me that anybody would not identify immediately how naturally it would come to these people to gleefully exchange a promise to terminate the Magnitsky Act and repeal any other Russian sanctions in exchange for dirt on Hillary to help win the campaign with full knowledge of who they were dealing with (remember, Goldstone told Donald directly that Veselnitskaya was a "Russia Government Lawyer" when he set up the meeting, to which Donald Jr. ultimate replied, "I love it!).

Business as usual.
 
It's very interesting, the provision in Manafort's plea agreement that it's void if he gets pardoned.
 
OeuvrePressure said:
It's very interesting, the provision in Manafort's plea agreement that it's void if he gets pardoned.
Click to expand...

Mueller already has them all and could recommend impeachment based on past precedent without question.

He's working on something bigger, imo. He doesn't want to impeach Trump on misdemeanors. He wants some high crimes.
 
Rational Poster said:
Mueller already has them all and could recommend impeachment based on past precedent without question.

He's working on something bigger, imo. He doesn't want to impeach Trump on misdemeanors. He wants some high crimes.
Click to expand...
I'm not down with jumping on that train just yet.
I don't know who he's got for what. I can't speak to legal likelihoods.

All I'm sure of is that Trump has sleepless nights, and it's not because he thinks these men are straight arrows getting a bad rap.
 
ShadowRun said:
V28281728 thread #thisisit #worried
Click to expand...
I heard an interesting analogy:

The people chanting "this is it" are like an audience member sitting in the theater watching previews, complaining "THIS isn't the movie! There's no movie. This is a waste of money!"
 
Democrats Make Last-Ditch Effort To Block Trump Declassification

Leading congressional Democrats are looking to stall the process to release documents related to the Russia investigation, which President Donald Trump ordered declassified on Monday.

Reps. Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff and Sens. Chuck Schumer and Mark Warner, sent a letter Tuesday asking Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, FBI Director Christopher Wray and Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats to provide an “immediate briefing” to the Gang of Eight before declassifying and releasing the documents.

The four Democrats expressed “profound alarm” at Trump’s order to declassify the records. Trump ordered the Justice Department and Office of the Director of National Intelligence to begin the process to declassify 21 pages from a June 2017 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) application taken out against former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page.

Trump also ordered the declassification of FBI notes from interviews used in connection with the Page FISAs as well as notes from interviews with Bruce Ohr, the Justice Department official who met numerous times with Christopher Steele, the author of the anti-Trump dossier.

Trump also demanded the release of Russia-related text messages from former FBI officials James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Peter Strzok, and Lisa Page. He also ordered the release of Ohr’s text messages.

A small group of House Republicans have pressed Trump to declassify and release the documents. Led by House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes, the Republicans claim that the documents show that the FBI abused the FISA process in order to surveil the Trump campaign.

The Democrats argue that Trump’s action is a “brazen abuse of power” aimed at undermining the special counsel’s investigation into possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russian government.

They further claimed that “absent an indictment,” the subjects of federal investigations “should not be able to access law enforcement or related national security information for any reason.”

In the requested briefing, Democrats want to find out what review process will be undertaken during declassification.

They also want to inquire about proposed redactions in the documents as well as “plans to protect investigative equities and sources and methods, including efforts to mitigate harm that may result from these disclosures.”

It is unclear whether the Democrats’ effort will delay the declassification process. A Justice Department spokeswoman said Monday that the agency was “already working” with the Office of the Director of National Intelligence on the declassification process.

Nunes said Monday that the release of most of the records should take only a few days at most. He said in an interview on Fox News that the process to release the Carter Page FISA was “very, very simple.”

http://dailycaller.com/2018/09/18/democrats-trump-declassification/
 
Madmick said:
It has been established, and in fact, his children have been named as the defendants in the case-- including the golden girl Ivanka:
Attorney General Underwood Announces Lawsuit Against Donald J. Trump Foundation And Its Board Of Directors For Extensive And Persistent Violations Of State And Federal Law

Cliffs:
Trump Foundation asks for dismissal of NY attorney general's lawsuit

They have granted immunity to the longtime Trump executive, Allen Weiselberg, and accepted, who had been named as the Treasurer to the Trump Foundation (the charity) for a decade without his knowledge. His name and signature were on tons of documents. They were using his name to justify and cover their internal, nepotistic, illegal financing schemes.

These people are as crooked as swamp monsters get.

It is Southern District prosecutors who are trying to case, but yes, you appear to be correct about where they will try it, because it is headed to the NY State Supreme Court under the direction of the NY Attorney General (Barbara Underwood). I guess this has to do with SDNY prosecutors having a greater unique autonomy, and the fact that Trump stands accused of violating both federal and state finance laws within the state of New York itself. He's in massive trouble for all kinds of charity fraud. The Veteran's Charity he held was a campaign fundraiser, but Trump tried to write it off as charity fundraiser (even though he got caught not actually forwarding promised payments to the military charities he promised he would, and deposited it in his coffers, instead).
New York Prosecutors May Pose a Bigger Threat to Trump Than Mueller

As you can see, this was all tied up in the same people Mueller is pursuing, and that ultimately traces back all the way to Trump's kids themselves.

It's remarkable to me that anybody would not identify immediately how naturally it would come to these people to gleefully exchange a promise to terminate the Magnitsky Act and repeal any other Russian sanctions in exchange for dirt on Hillary to help win the campaign with full knowledge of who they were dealing with (remember, Goldstone told Donald directly that Veselnitskaya was a "Russia Government Lawyer" when he set up the meeting, to which Donald Jr. ultimate replied, "I love it!).

Business as usual.
Click to expand...
Two different groups/lawsuits here, but they have similar names and are pursuing similar things in the same region, so the confusion is understandable.

1.) The NY AG's office. They're pursuing a civil case against Trump, Eric, Jr., and the foundation for violations of state and federal law. The case has been filed in state court in NY. It may be removed to federal court because of the federal claims, in which case the federal court would exercise supplemental jurisdiction over the federal claims.

2.) Federal prosecutors in the SDNY are pursuing a separate investigation. They're the ones talking to Weisselberg.
 


"This is a tough hurricane, one of the wettest we’ve ever seen from the standpoint of water"

<17>
 
Quipling said:
Two different groups/lawsuits here, but they have similar names and are pursuing similar things in the same region, so the confusion is understandable.

1.) The NY AG's office. They're pursuing a civil case against Trump, Eric, Jr., and the foundation for violations of state and federal law. The case has been filed in state court in NY. It may be removed to federal court because of the federal claims, in which case the federal court would exercise supplemental jurisdiction over the federal claims.

2.) Federal prosecutors in the SDNY are pursuing a separate investigation. They're the ones talking to Weisselberg.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the quick clarification, I didn't want to spend 25 minutes watching that video again.
 
Darth_Inv1ctu5 said:


"This is a tough hurricane, one of the wettest we’ve ever seen from the standpoint of water"

<17>
Click to expand...


As my sister says about some of the students in school (She's a teacher)….

"Somebody mixed his Similac wrong...."
 
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