Looking for Old Ken Shamrock Interview on Leg Locks and Eddie Bravo

[Bullitt68]

Hello, everyone. I rarely post in here, but I posted a couple of times today and I got to thinking about something that's been bugging me for years, and I figured if anyone could help me with this, it'd be someone in the grappling section.

A long ass time ago, Ken Shamrock was being interviewed and the interviewer brought up some comments made by Eddie Bravo - who, if you'll recall, worked for the UFC for a minute as an analyst offering commentary and unofficial scoring in between rounds of major fights - in which Bravo was being critical of leg locks, saying that they don't work on high level guys and are too risky in MMA. Shamrock's response was to invite Bravo to come train with him so that he could show him how effective leg locks could be.

Ever since the EBI took off and since this recent leg lock revolution set the grappling world on fire, I've often thought about that interview, but I've never been able to find it. @Kforcer, this ring any bells for you? Digging deep into my memory, if pressed I'd guess that it was from around 2004-2007, while Eddie was working for and Ken was actively fighting in the UFC.

Any help that you guys can provide will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Kforcer]

Hello, everyone. I rarely post in here, but I posted a couple of times today and I got to thinking about something that's been bugging me for years, and I figured if anyone could help me with this, it'd be someone in the grappling section.

A long ass time ago, Ken Shamrock was being interviewed and the interviewer brought up some comments made by Eddie Bravo - who, if you'll recall, worked for the UFC for a minute as an analyst offering commentary and unofficial scoring in between rounds of major fights - in which Bravo was being critical of leg locks, saying that they don't work on high level guys and are too risky in MMA. Shamrock's response was to invite Bravo to come train with him so that he could show him how effective leg locks could be.

Ever since the EBI took off and since this recent leg lock revolution set the grappling world on fire, I've often thought about that interview, but I've never been able to find it. @Kforcer, this ring any bells for you? Digging deep into my memory, if pressed I'd guess that it was from around 2004-2007, while Eddie was working for and Ken was actively fighting in the UFC.

Any help that you guys can provide will be greatly appreciated.

I absolutely remember the interview. Predictably, people online attacked Shamrock and his comments as being ignorant, etc. But while I remember it--and the fallout--clear as day, I don't know how easy it would be to find it. I'll give it a shot though. I'd be you could find a link to it somewhere in the recesses of the Sherdog archives.

 

[Bullitt68]

I absolutely remember the interview. Predictably, people online attacked Shamrock and his comments as being ignorant, etc. But while I remember it--and the fallout--clear as day, I don't know how easy it would be to find it. I'll give it a shot though. I'd be you could find a link to it somewhere in the recesses of the Sherdog archives.

I've looked many times in the past, but now, after the big forum migration from years ago that wiped out tens of thousands of pages and hundreds of thousands of threads - and the further back, the higher the number of shit lost - I don't know if it's anywhere on here. But I confess that my diligence from years past is not operative at the moment. Right now, I'm hoping that someone else will be able to succeed where I've failed

 

[StonedLemur]

I remember that interview sir.
Now you're gonna get me searching aren't ya lol.

I'll give it a shot.

 

[mattemate]

I don't remember that one.

What I DO remember is a hilarious thread that Eddie started here. He wrote a little vignette of two characters he made up. I can't remember the names, but it was something like Nacho and Sancho.

The idea was that these two imaginary guys had different training methodologies, one in the gi, one no-gi, and they were on a collision course for a no-gi match. And he ended with the question, "So who wins, Nacho or Sancho?" Or something to that effect.

It was actually a hilarious thread. Sadly, I can't even find Eddie's ACCOUNT anymore, much less that thread.

Anyone else remember that?

 

[Stuart0502]

I used to listen to a lot of what Bravo used to say.

Seems like the last 10-15 years have shown he was wrong about most things with regards to BJJ?

The only thing you can say is that he is a high level grappler himself. I didn’t watch his second match with Royler Gracie but his first involved almost zero 10th planet stuff from what I remember.

 

[mattemate]

I used to listen to a lot of what Bravo used to say.

Seems like the last 10-15 years have shown he was wrong about most things with regards to BJJ?

The only thing you can say is that he is a high level grappler himself. I didn’t watch his second match with Royler Gracie but his first involved almost zero 10th planet stuff from what I remember.

Maybe some of his guard retention stuff, jail break. IDK.
You should watch the second match though. It was really good. Find on Rogan where he narrates the entire thing. It's good stuff.

 

[Kforcer]

I don't remember that one.

What I DO remember is a hilarious thread that Eddie started here. He wrote a little vignette of two characters he made up. I can't remember the names, but it was something like Nacho and Sancho.

The idea was that these two imaginary guys had different training methodologies, one in the gi, one no-gi, and they were on a collision course for a no-gi match. And he ended with the question, "So who wins, Nacho or Sancho?" Or something to that effect.

It was actually a hilarious thread. Sadly, I can't even find Eddie's ACCOUNT anymore, much less that thread.

Anyone else remember that?

I do remember it. Then he said the match was cancelled because one of the guys was off in Japan doing a tug of war championship or something. And there was a dude in the threat that didn't answer the question but just went off on Eddie because he said he disrespected the Gracies.

 

[CinemaKingdom]

I used to listen to a lot of what Bravo used to say.

Seems like the last 10-15 years have shown he was wrong about most things with regards to BJJ?

The only thing you can say is that he is a high level grappler himself. I didn’t watch his second match with Royler Gracie but his first involved almost zero 10th planet stuff from what I remember.

Yeah, he never created these elite guys like he said would happen. It's obviously way better to just have "advanced basics" like John Danaher or Rickson taught. That is way better BJJ that you don't have to have insane flexibility for. Your time would be much better spent studying New Wave JJ if you want to learn the best stuff out there.

 

[mattemate]

I do remember it. Then he said the match was cancelled because one of the guys was off in Japan doing a tug of war championship or something. And there was a dude in the threat that didn't answer the question but just went off on Eddie because he said he disrespected the Gracies.

Haha OMG tug-of-war? That's fucking hilarious.

Funniest shit I ever heard Eddie say was on Rogan's podcast with Rickson when they were talking about Bill Gates.

 

[AZ103]

Yeah, he never created these elite guys like he said would happen. It's obviously way better to just have "advanced basics" like John Danaher or Rickson taught. That is way better BJJ that you don't have to have insane flexibility for. Your time would be much better spent studying New Wave JJ if you want to learn the best stuff out there.

Eddies biggest contributions will probably come through his rule sets. EBI was hugely popular as a ruleset, combat jj is good for mma prospects or old vets.

 

[Stuart0502]

Yeah, he never created these elite guys like he said would happen. It's obviously way better to just have "advanced basics" like John Danaher or Rickson taught. That is way better BJJ that you don't have to have insane flexibility for. Your time would be much better spent studying New Wave JJ if you want to learn the best stuff out there.

It’s not just the moves e.g rubber guard, jail break whatever.

If you really get into his system he maps out a step by step guide. E.g hand on the matt - rubber guard, then switch to crackhead control then to Jiu claw or whatever. It’s the equivalent of a conventional BJJ guy saying I’m going to pull guard threaten with a triangle, transition to an armbar, then transition to an omoplata, them sweep etc and trying to force that sequence every time regardless of how the opponent reacts.

Whereas if you watch most elite level grapplers they are generally just feeling their way and reacting in the moment, something Bravo obviously does himself as well.

 

[CinemaKingdom]

It’s not just the moves e.g rubber guard, jail break whatever.

If you really get into his system he maps out a step by step guide. E.g hand on the matt - rubber guard, then switch to crackhead control then to Jiu claw or whatever. It’s the equivalent of a conventional BJJ guy saying I’m going to pull guard threaten with a triangle, transition to an armbar, then transition to an omoplata, them sweep etc and trying to force that sequence every time regardless of how the opponent reacts.

Whereas if you watch most elite level grapplers they are generally just feeling their way and reacting in the moment, something Bravo obviously does himself as well.

Yeah, I used to do his stuff years ago. Probably 2008 or even before, can't remember. I'm not saying it sucks or won't work, just the amount of time you put into it and the physical abilities you have to learn is not worth it when vastly superior systems exist. It can be tricky and take people off guard for sure. And has it's positives.

 

[Bullitt68]

So no luck on the interview?

 

[Kforcer]

So no luck on the interview?

I'm still looking...the search continues...

 

[NicholasJBasile]

I used to listen to a lot of what Bravo used to say.

Seems like the last 10-15 years have shown he was wrong about most things with regards to BJJ?

The only thing you can say is that he is a high level grappler himself. I didn’t watch his second match with Royler Gracie but his first involved almost zero 10th planet stuff from what I remember.

Yeah -- I have a ton of respect for Bravo, and a lot of friends that train under his brand. However, I don't feel he was quite the visionary I thought he was back in the day. The twister, rubber guard, etc... pretty relevant for grappling competition, but his techniques were somewhat left in the dust in the world of MMA. We saw some of his methods displayed in the UFC, but some of his methods have been made obsolete. He seems like a good instructor; never met him. I do feel he gets maybe a touch too much credit here and there, but I wouldn't say he's a fraud by any means.

 

[NicholasJBasile]

So no luck on the interview?

Was this in the forums? I used to listen to the Sherdog Radio Network religiously; probably listened to every show until TJ De Santis left the network -- I don't recall it being on there.

 

[Bullitt68]

Was this in the forums? I used to listen to the Sherdog Radio Network religiously; probably listened to every show until TJ De Santis left the network -- I don't recall it being on there.

It was circulated on the forum, for sure, but I don't remember if it was actually a Sherdog piece or if it was from some other outlet. I'm inclined to say that it was from another outlet, but I just don't remember. A lot of shit from back then, it just seems to have disappeared from the Internet. I've also tried periodically to find articles and interviews where, around 2004-ish, Ken Shamrock talked about possibly staying at HW after he beat Kimo at UFC 48 and fighting either Frank Mir or Andrei Arlovski on a card that the UFC was thinking about going back and doing as another UFC Japan (obviously to compete with PRIDE). That shit seems to have disappeared, too.

On a nerdier front, I'm "officially" a scholar - I have a PhD and everything - and I've written a little bit on MMA, but it's so fucking hard to actually research and write about MMA because I have no God damn sources! I remember a ton of shit, but then if I were asked "Who said that?" or "Where did you read that?" my answer every time would be "I don't remember" or "I can't find it."

 

[NicholasJBasile]

It was circulated on the forum, for sure, but I don't remember if it was actually a Sherdog piece or if it was from some other outlet. I'm inclined to say that it was from another outlet, but I just don't remember. A lot of shit from back then, it just seems to have disappeared from the Internet. I've also tried periodically to find articles and interviews where, around 2004-ish, Ken Shamrock talked about possibly staying at HW after he beat Kimo at UFC 48 and fighting either Frank Mir or Andrei Arlovski on a card that the UFC was thinking about going back and doing as another UFC Japan (obviously to compete with PRIDE). That shit seems to have disappeared, too.

On a nerdier front, I'm "officially" a scholar - I have a PhD and everything - and I've written a little bit on MMA, but it's so fucking hard to actually research and write about MMA because I have no God damn sources! I remember a ton of shit, but then if I were asked "Who said that?" or "Where did you read that?" my answer every time would be "I don't remember" or "I can't find it."

Very cool -- what have you written? What did you get your PhD in? I have a BS in Food Science, but not much from that is relevant towards MMA and I'm no longer in the food industry.

And yeah, there was a lot of good stuff from that era. Josh Gross was a treasure for Sherdog. MMA journalism isn't something I've followed for some time, but he was very good at what he did in my opinion.

 

[Bullitt68]

Very cool -- what have you written? What did you get your PhD in? I have a BS in Food Science, but not much from that is relevant towards MMA and I'm no longer in the food industry.

I studied, write about, and teach film. That's my main thing, film history and analysis. But a big part of that is martial arts movies, and then since my interest in martial arts extends beyond movies, every once in a while when I've had the time - or felt like shoehorning it in - I've written about MMA. Usually, it's part of a larger scholarly context* but I did write a short article on the invention of the term MMA.** I'd love to write more, specifically on Ken and on the evolution of BJJ and catch wrestling in MMA, but it's so fucking tough when it comes to sourcing shit

* https://www.academia.edu/7595453/Co...Instituting_Reality_in_Martial_Arts_Practice_

https://chinesemartialstudies.com/2...y-martial-arts-in-classical-hollywood-cinema/

https://www.academia.edu/17852529/H...between_Planet_Hollywood_and_Planet_Hong_Kong

** https://chinesemartialstudies.com/2...martial-arts-between-culture-media-and-sport/