Limitations of Sport Grappling?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by TrevorRoss, Jul 8, 2018.

  1. yetanother

    yetanother Brown Belt

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    I listen to the interview and it seems believable. TKOing someone is something new while tapping out some not very good grappler wouldn't be anything new to him.
     
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  2. Thaijitsu612

    Thaijitsu612 Brown Belt

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    I've never agreed half guard is bad for mma. Being in bottom half is only bad if your half guard sucks.
     
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  3. lts5025

    lts5025 "What the **** is a Dim Mack?"

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    There’s stuff in “old school” BJJ that I would never do in a real fight, like give up mount for an armbar. Yes, it works in MMA, but the fight is over after the tap and the ref is there to separate the fighters.

    That said, I don’t think there’s anything in sport BJJ that would “never work” in a street fight, even if you shouldn’t put yourself there intentionally, you may wind up there anyway. There are a lot of newer guards that can save your ass in a fight if you’re on bottom and looking to sweep, especially against a good wrestler.
     
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  4. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    Armbars are not made for sf...
     
  5. Thaijitsu612

    Thaijitsu612 Brown Belt

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    Why? I used an armbar to gain control of an arrestee who was fighting. There's a good Gracie breakdown of an officer doing it as well.
     
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  6. shunyata

    shunyata Black Belt

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    Osoto Gari to Kesa Gatame, americana with your legs.

    Street tested, Einarr approved.
     
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  7. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    I like it...

    Problem with armbars is that it doesn’t stop the attacker... but Americana with leg from hon is a pin and a shoulder break... awesome for the streets not that good for court though
     
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  8. SummerStriker

    SummerStriker Black Belt

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    Matt Serra (sp?) put on a street grappling clinic. Mount and control without hurting the guy until help came.

    Save the John Wick shit for when your life is in danger.

    I like Osoto Gari a lot, because people stand up tall and it is easy, and because you can hold their arm and head while performing it and keep them from clipping their head on the ground.
     
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  9. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    Hanging out on bottom too long, 2 on 1 will get you blasted

    As long as you modify it in regards to protecting your head its fine. Position before sub

    Death by osoto
     
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  10. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    Being on bottom in MMA is bad, period. Full stop. Half is no worse than other positions if your guard is good, but you don't want to be on the bottom under almost any circumstances.
     
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  11. Thaijitsu612

    Thaijitsu612 Brown Belt

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    Sure but you have to prepare to be on your back. I'm not suggesting people pull half guard. If I am stuck on my back though I want to be as good as I can be and sweep or get up as quickly as possible. If I can escape side control or mount to half guard I feel I'm much safer and closer to that sweep or getting up.
     
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  12. Thaijitsu612

    Thaijitsu612 Brown Belt

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    I think position before submission is especially true in street fights. In 99.99% of cases, at least from a Law enforcement point of view just controlling someone until help arrives is the best option. No sub needed.

    Sure someone could right with a broken arm. But, in real life my experience is when someone gets hurt or even just realized they are beat, they either give up or switch from fight to flight.

    On that topic though, kimura is my absolute fave. I can use it as a position of control and get that arm into handcuff position. I've used an armbar once, Rnc a couple times, but the kimura grip at some point almost every single time someone had resisted arrest. Never really as a sub though just control and once I had help used it cuffing.
     
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  13. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    it depends on the person, people do a lot of stuff wth broken bones, adrenaline makes up for a ton of shit...
     
  14. judoka loca

    judoka loca Training to eventually grapple a bear

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    Story time...
    Quite a while ago, my only ghetto friend, after threatening suicide, went and collapsed in the street, screaming he was going to let a car run him over, as it was in the dead of night. One of my white belts and I, we had been sitting on my driveway at the time, ran over to him.

    Although he resisted I pulled him off the ground, more worried than anything, and got him up on his feet. In a nervous stupor he stepped towards me, pulled back his hand and threw a few haymakers that I saw coming a mile away. I blocked it with a karate upward block, closed the distance, which made his other punches simply miss me, grabbed his collar and stepped in to throw him with o soto gari. He went to the concrete, but not hard, I didn't want to hurt him. We rolled for a bit, him clawing at my face and eyes, until I went for a RNC and he turtled up basically, so I did what we had been practicing earlier the day, which is attack the turtle with an armbar. He struggled and was trying to grab my groin with his other hand, which I did not appreciate. I locked in the armbar, barely, and he started screaming and crying.

    My white belt ran over to us wide eyed. Cars were beginning to stop in the road and ask questions, but we managed to pull my friend away and walk him home. Moral of the story, don't use an armbar to subdue someone. Use a choke, or a pin. But any submission will work in a street fight. The martial arts, even BJJ and Judo, at their very base, are combat systems, not sports. People seem to forget that they were invented to cause harm to people.
     
  15. Thaijitsu612

    Thaijitsu612 Brown Belt

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    Yeah I know its possible, and I'm not trying to be that guy, but I think the chances of someone having any real chance in a fight is almost zero.

    Again not trying to be that guy but if you include incidents I was directly involved in, coworkers, and citizen fights, there is a pretty large sample group. I can't say I've ever seen someone with a major injury continue to put up a fight, let alone win the fight.

    I know street fights are chaotic but the resilience of people in them is blown way out of proportion. Yes it depends on the person, but about 999/1000 people are going to quit if you break there arm. Its just not like in the movies.
     
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  16. mataleaos

    mataleaos Purple Belt

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    Great post. Two other positions that I've found helpful in controlling pissed off drunk people are the arm triangle (although sort of in between the belly down finish and a full seat belt grip; because you can use the forearm on the side of the neck to get some pain compliance and you're behind them) and then the no gi brabo (darce) position. It's like a big uncomfortable hug and you can hold them either on the floor or standing up without losing control. The rear naked choke is great but it looks so scary to onlookers that even if you aren't applying pressure you may deal with outsiders freaking out or trying to pry you off. I've found that various arm triangles are good because they don't look as as scary to people that don't train.
     
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  17. Thaijitsu612

    Thaijitsu612 Brown Belt

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    I'm a big fan of the arm triangle as well. My department has started teaching it, sort of. Problem is whoever marketed this system decides the traditional arm triangle wasn't good enough And made a knock off that is much less effective in my opinion.

    My old department allowed the rnc once someone started throwing strikes at you. My current department doesn't allow any sort of choke until you are at deadly force. Its a shame honestly. We have a lot of pcp in our city and blood chokes are about the only effective tool against a guy on pcp.

    Most law enforcement's hand to hand training is really terrible. I actually like what Rener and ryron are doing because its tried and true techniques. Instead they are teaching kicks to the shin and punches to the bicep...
     
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  18. SummerStriker

    SummerStriker Black Belt

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    That's good stuff if the goal is to create a department policy with the goal of beating the ever living fuck out of someone. You CAN incapacitate someone on PCP with shin kicks and arm punches, but you have to hit them a lot, until the muscle gives out. They will still be "resisting" on the ground, rolling around or whatever, so you can drop knees on their back and wrench their arms out of place to "control" them. lol

    The idea of a cop hitting an osoto gari while holding the suspect's head so he doesn't hit it on the ground, then sinking in an RNC without hurting them? That's fucking stupid. We aren't about that life here in the united states. We'd rather smash people.

    (doesn't help a lot of old cops still think Aikido and Wing Chun are the best and that "sport" fighting is weak)
     
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  19. Thaijitsu612

    Thaijitsu612 Brown Belt

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    You nailed it with the old cops bring stuck in their ways. Those old cops are who make up the command staff.
     
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  20. DatCutman

    DatCutman White Belt

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    I'm still routinely shocked by how many cops swear by aikido, despite resolving almost every use of force scenario with a taser. Blows me away.
     
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