Learning how to defend myself.

[a guy]

That's true but (setting aside the disingenuity of conflating homicide and suicide statistics) it's also true that something like motor vehicles kill over 4 times that number per year but we accept it anyways because, what, they're; useful anyways? it's fun anyways? It's my right anyways?

The solution of course is to make firearm ownership mandatory and have handling and target shooting a regular part of elementary education country wide.

The reason I bring up suicide is that I'm trying to account for net safety. Violent crime is so rare in most areas that the vast majority of people will never be put in a situation where they need to use a gun. However, in the US especially, mental health is a major, major concern. If I was a father (I'm not), I would be much more worried about one of my kids blowing their own brains out or fucking around with my gun and shooting themselves in the foot than I would be that someone would ever break into my house. If I was going to buy a gun, I would need to take serious precautions to ensure that it didn't end up being a danger to my family.

The point you bring up with cars is interesting, but I think the key difference lies in that fact that guns are made to kill and are not a necessity, whereas cars are made for travel and are arguable a necessity for many people. Especially where I'm from in the US, public transportation is terrible. It's extremely difficult to function normally in the modern world (outside of cities) without a car. Also, consider that the reason for so much more death and injury caused by cars is that so many more people drive cars every single day than shoot guns.

Lol that's one way to do it.

 

[rmongler]

Hell, when I teach a striking / MT class and a trial guy walks in, as sad as it is for the school, I know he's not coming back for a day 2 because I'm heavily focused on the basics which is footwork, stance, and 1,2.

The way you get normies interested in fundamentals is by analogizing them in mytheo-poetic terms; like being in tune with the 'energy' of your body movement, have balance in life just as you have balance in takedown defense, and so on and so forth.

Basically, get a binder full of martial arts metaphors for virtuous living, and you'll be rolling in the soccer moms and mall ninjas in no time.

A lot of peoples first attraction to martial arts is that they basically want to feel like a wizard who's secret knowledge gives them power over the mundanes. Well if you're willing, you can sell that, and if the magic you're slinging is actually good shit, so much the better.

 

[j123]

The way you get normies interested in fundamentals is by analogizing them in mytheo-poetic terms; like being in tune with the 'energy' of your body movement, having balance in life just as you have balance in takedown defense, and so on.

Basically, get a binder full of martial arts metaphors for virtuous living, and you'll be rolling in the soccer moms and mall ninjas in no time.

A lot of peoples first attraction to martial arts is that they basically want to feel like a wizard who's secret knowledge gives them power over the mundanes. Well if you're willing, you can sell that, and if the magic you're slinging is actually good shit, so much the better.

That's a good approach. One of the more exp'd fighters said just to give a grueling workout with burnouts and stuff so they'll feel its a good workout.

 

[a guy]

That's a good approach. One of the more exp'd fighters said just to give a grueling workout with burnouts and stuff so they'll feel its a good workout.

This is what many gyms do, and it does up retention rates but it also leads to a lot of shitty S&C beliefs and practices.

 

[j123]

This is what many gyms do, and it does up retention rates but it also leads to a lot of shitty S&C beliefs and practices.

I hate it because really I wanna teach stuff that works and is at the right stage of progression for their state, yet at the same time because they all wanna do 1,4, slip, knee, spinning elbow (and they can't do it) they feel robbed of the experience.
So then there's a compromise on both sides, and like you said leads to shitty technique because of fatigue.

I think I should give less of a shit and start being like some of the other fighters.

other fighter: "new guy comes in, I put him on the bag"
me: "no instruction, no technique? He's not gonna come back"
other fighter: "fuck him, if he doesn't come back, we don't need that shit"

 

[Avin1973]

And that's a big part of the problem, isn't it? Simply being athletic, young and healthy are MAJOR deterrents to violence. A big part of not being a victim is simply not looking like a victim.

Well, that probably works great for avoiding bar fights... where I live robbers carry guns and most people can't carry guns... so being fit is kinda pointless. This coming from a guy who does lifting and Muay Thai...

 

[Hotora86]

Well, that probably works great for avoiding bar fights... where I live robbers carry guns and most people can't carry guns... so being fit is kinda pointless. This coming from a guy who does lifting and Muay Thai...

You can still avoid dangerous places and run fast.

 

[Hotora86]

Less deadly techniques are more deadly then deadly techniques cause you can actually train them.

aka The Kano Paradox

 

[Ilk]

From my experience in confrontation there are few simple rules.

Most of the fights will happen with people you know. Especially if they learn you are training something. There are always assholes in your social circle who will be willing to test you.
My first fight was with a friend of mine who was testing me and teasing me when I returned home after working abroad. He just wanted to mess with me and my status in the group. Once we were playing soccer and we just had to fight. I could have avoided it but I was going to suffer being victim of him and his tests. I did a cross, double jab. He was shocked. Took him down. Elbow to chest and punched the grass next to his head and let him go.

However I learned punching fucking hearts your hands.

Second fight at work. An asshole again was teasing me. He once trew a phone a pen and slapped me. I tried to take him down in but he escaped and kneed me. I got super mad and left hook him with a slap do hard that he almost fell. Then it was shouting and screaming from him while I was slowly back pedalling with left hand forward, right hand to the chin. I was trying to call him down saying I do not want to fight him, just needs to stop acting like a retard.He got scared and did not attack again.

I was dumb enough to calm down a conflict in a bar. I got sucker punched in the chin from behind. I was so scared and the adrenalin rush was just crazy. I stand up, front kicked my puncher and he was so drunk that fell and did not get up. His friends were not up for a fight and were shouting "why did you him" to the guy that sucker punched me. I was extremely lucky about it. However I am fucking scared and I start attacking them. I round house another guy straight in the liver. And then I just start punching another one. The rest observe and shout at me to stop. Again I am super lucky that nobody attacks me. The security arrives and lucky for me 3rd time it is my kick boxing coach. Who kicked my ass in training the next day.

Last confrontation with s couple of drunk lifeguards who lived next to me and were shouting at the night. I got out and confronted them. One of them asks bravely if I am talking to them. I respond angry and confident while approaching forward that it is directed to them. Fuck they got scared. I think it was my confident body language and voice that saved me again for being stupid. I then relax and tell them we are all here to work in this resort and they should keep quite after midnight respecting the rest and sleep of all the people who do the same. We were living in a hotel. They apologised. My girlfriend was so scared she just froze in the room.

So confident body language and voice is key to resolving situations.

Key in fighting is to learn to fight and be fit. I am fat but it is obvious that I am fit and I train stuff. Best to learn to fight is in a sporting atmosphere in a sport fighting gym. As there you will be actually sparring and fighting. Put as a goal to make an amateur fight. If you get there you know how to fight.

I ve been also in few self defence classes from a karate and judo black belt who is an instructor in the police. His main instructions were to avoid fighting. Avoid kicking, slap the face instead of punching and drilling. He insisted on drilling simple techniwues.

 

[j123]

From my experience in confrontation there are few simple rules.

Most of the fights will happen with people you know. Especially if they learn you are training something. There are always assholes in your social circle who will be willing to test you.
My first fight was with a friend of mine who was testing me and teasing me when I returned home after working abroad. He just wanted to mess with me and my status in the group. Once we were playing soccer and we just had to fight. I could have avoided it but I was going to suffer being victim of him and his tests. I did a cross, double jab. He was shocked. Took him down. Elbow to chest and punched the grass next to his head and let him go.

However I learned punching fucking hearts your hands.

This is why I don't tell people outside of the gym that I train or compete. I guess I'm lucky 99% of my friends are fighters and combat sport practitioners so things are good.

As I mentioned in another thread, I'm all for shutting things down, but it ends up being a waste of time and energy. What did I just prove? What I already knew? That I would mess up un-coordinated, semi to non-athletic people in a variety of ways? I knew that from the get go.

Last time I was at a party, the local bum poser guy from work picked a fight with me, guy out of nowhere latched my arm tight and grinned saying shit like he's a fighter, and although its difficult to say what it was in writing, he did pick a fight. Been saying for months how he's a fighter, how he wrestles (turns out me meant WWE). So we're already in the clinch, and its my bread and butter.
I get the double collar throw possibly one of the lightest knees I've thrown and he dropped.

Before that there was a guy who said he "boxed". Really what he meant was he watched YT videos and shadow boxed twice a year. Anyways he says to me "wanna fight?" in a jokingly manner, but his tone and expression meant "for real", and he did it in front of the others so they were watching. Guess he tried to climb the social ladder.... didn't work well for him.

So I'm down, okay. Guy tries to box with me, I leg kick him and he falls flat on his ass. That's what you get when you don't have a stance. Guy gets pissed and says no kicking. To which I say "you asked me to fight, I'm doing that, you didn't say wanna box?" He gets the idea, and still wants to go at it. Alright.. I'm being polite and actually let him up. He tries to kick me out of retaliation I guess, so I catch + dump, sit into high mount and GnP elbow for a bit until its clear (I didn't actually blast him with the elbows, just fast but light so he knows whats up)

But it comes back to my original point, I wasted time and energy which could have been used elsewhere to prove a stupid point I already knew.

I guess the problem being around fighters almost everyday it skews with my perception of the average guy. I think the average guy can take hits just as hard, but turns out not. Man even going real light, sub-30%, and they take it bad. I've literally went flow sparring intensity and not even with a clenched fist.
Its similar to when I was told 1/3rd of people here are obese, and of course I don't buy it because everyone at the gym is 10-15% bodyfat. But once I spent some down time away from the gym, it was eye opening how "sheltered" I was

Second fight at work. An asshole again was teasing me. He once trew a phone a pen and slapped me. I tried to take him down in but he escaped and kneed me. I got super mad and left hook him with a slap do hard that he almost fell. Then it was shouting and screaming from him while I was slowly back pedalling with left hand forward, right hand to the chin. I was trying to call him down saying I do not want to fight him, just needs to stop acting like a retard.He got scared and did not attack again.

Couldn't take down untrained and got countered, what a can

But yeah, where the hell are you working that chumps are picking fights with you over nothing.

I was dumb enough to calm down a conflict in a bar. I got sucker punched in the chin from behind. I was so scared and the adrenalin rush was just crazy. I stand up, front kicked my puncher and he was so drunk that fell and did not get up. His friends were not up for a fight and were shouting "why did you him" to the guy that sucker punched me. I was extremely lucky about it. However I am fucking scared and I start attacking them. I round house another guy straight in the liver. And then I just start punching another one. The rest observe and shout at me to stop. Again I am super lucky that nobody attacks me. The security arrives and lucky for me 3rd time it is my kick boxing coach. Who kicked my ass in training the next day.

Didn't know that Patrick Swayne posted on Sherdog

Key in fighting is to learn to fight and be fit. I am fat but it is obvious that I am fit and I train stuff. Best to learn to fight is in a sporting atmosphere in a sport fighting gym. As there you will be actually sparring and fighting. Put as a goal to make an amateur fight. If you get there you know how to fight.

It really does help big time. You'll get into shape, feel you're really part of the sport, because really deep down if you don't compete it doesn't feel real since the sport's really based on competing.
Also, the confidence boost is huge. Maybe you won't win the fight, but knowing you can take hits from much stronger and athletic fighters and still continue press forward makes you 100% tougher.

As for self-defense aside from weapons, a reason to avoid stupid confrontations is because these days people are fucking nuts. Vindictive as well. Yeah you could mess him up today, but nutjob is gonna try to make it their mission in life to rind out where you are and keep coming back to even the score.
Just look at some of the road rage shit, dude gets cut off, gets enraged, and follows the guy to his home to even things out there.

 

[Pferd]

The reason I bring up suicide is that I'm trying to account for net safety. Violent crime is so rare in most areas that the vast majority of people will never be put in a situation where they need to use a gun. However, in the US especially, mental health is a major, major concern. If I was a father (I'm not), I would be much more worried about one of my kids blowing their own brains out or fucking around with my gun and shooting themselves in the foot than I would be that someone would ever break into my house. If I was going to buy a gun, I would need to take serious precautions to ensure that it didn't end up being a danger to my family.

The point you bring up with cars is interesting, but I think the key difference lies in that fact that guns are made to kill and are not a necessity, whereas cars are made for travel and are arguable a necessity for many people. Especially where I'm from in the US, public transportation is terrible. It's extremely difficult to function normally in the modern world (outside of cities) without a car. Also, consider that the reason for so much more death and injury caused by cars is that so many more people drive cars every single day than shoot guns.

Lol that's one way to do it.

You seem to have some sort of vendetta against gun ownership. Isn't it true that suicide rates are also declining?you're argument that a gun owner is more likely to shoot a loved one or use the gun to kill themselves are largely put forth by the anti gun rights lobby.many have correctly stated that violent crime is declining,especially incidents of gun violence.over the same time period gun sales have skyrocketed.it seems like the ant gun lobby continues to move the goal posts . gun violence is down but now you shouldnt be allowed to own a gun because you might use it to kill yourself. there are millions of responsible gun owners who don't use their guns yo kill themselves or accidently blow away their kids. If you don't want to train for self defense than don't. If you dont want to own a gun than don't . no one is forcing you.just don't force your beliefs off on to anyone else . thanks

 

[Ilk]

This is why I don't tell people outside of the gym that I train or compete. I guess I'm lucky 99% of my friends are fighters and combat sport practitioners so things are good.

As I mentioned in another thread, I'm all for shutting things down, but it ends up being a waste of time and energy. What did I just prove? What I already knew? That I would mess up un-coordinated, semi to non-athletic people in a variety of ways? I knew that from the get go.

Last time I was at a party, the local bum poser guy from work picked a fight with me, guy out of nowhere latched my arm tight and grinned saying shit like he's a fighter, and although its difficult to say what it was in writing, he did pick a fight. Been saying for months how he's a fighter, how he wrestles (turns out me meant WWE). So we're already in the clinch, and its my bread and butter.
I get the double collar throw possibly one of the lightest knees I've thrown and he dropped.

Before that there was a guy who said he "boxed". Really what he meant was he watched YT videos and shadow boxed twice a year. Anyways he says to me "wanna fight?" in a jokingly manner, but his tone and expression meant "for real", and he did it in front of the others so they were watching. Guess he tried to climb the social ladder.... didn't work well for him.

So I'm down, okay. Guy tries to box with me, I leg kick him and he falls flat on his ass. That's what you get when you don't have a stance. Guy gets pissed and says no kicking. To which I say "you asked me to fight, I'm doing that, you didn't say wanna box?" He gets the idea, and still wants to go at it. Alright.. I'm being polite and actually let him up. He tries to kick me out of retaliation I guess, so I catch + dump, sit into high mount and GnP elbow for a bit until its clear (I didn't actually blast him with the elbows, just fast but light so he knows whats up)

But it comes back to my original point, I wasted time and energy which could have been used elsewhere to prove a stupid point I already knew.

I guess the problem being around fighters almost everyday it skews with my perception of the average guy. I think the average guy can take hits just as hard, but turns out not. Man even going real light, sub-30%, and they take it bad. I've literally went flow sparring intensity and not even with a clenched fist.
Its similar to when I was told 1/3rd of people here are obese, and of course I don't buy it because everyone at the gym is 10-15% bodyfat. But once I spent some down time away from the gym, it was eye opening how "sheltered" I was


Couldn't take down untrained and got countered, what a can

But yeah, where the hell are you working that chumps are picking fights with you over nothing.


Didn't know that Patrick Swayne posted on Sherdog



It really does help big time. You'll get into shape, feel you're really part of the sport, because really deep down if you don't compete it doesn't feel real since the sport's really based on competing.
Also, the confidence boost is huge. Maybe you won't win the fight, but knowing you can take hits from much stronger and athletic fighters and still continue press forward makes you 100% tougher.

As for self-defense aside from weapons, a reason to avoid stupid confrontations is because these days people are fucking nuts. Vindictive as well. Yeah you could mess him up today, but nutjob is gonna try to make it their mission in life to rind out where you are and keep coming back to even the score.
Just look at some of the road rage shit, dude gets cut off, gets enraged, and follows the guy to his home to even things out there.

Yeah I agree it is a waste of energy. However I think it is a problem with false confidence we get by training fight sports. We are up for the challenge as we have experience in it. And we do not like our social status being damaged, I guess the fighter or call it warrior spirit gets into us. I should really shut about training in my social circle. I just switched cities again, so I am going to keep calm about it, so no one confronts me again. It is a good advice.

Regarding my take down attempt it was a very lame one, and my wrestling knowledge is from when I was 7 years old as father an ex wrestler signed me wrestling while I wanted to go soccer. Guess I have not paid attention

No idea who Patric Swayne is. Ok I just googled him. But it was the adrenaline rush and the how fucking scared I was after being dropped down by a sucker punch. I literally tough I am going to get beaten badly and went on some survival mode. I have never ever been in this mode again. It was heart pumping, head not thinking. I was just "get up, get up, get up" after I hit the floor. I literally had no idea what I was doing.

I am working mainly at hotels. Been all over Europe the past years, but lastly I returned home, but still switching resorts and cities to find a proper job and settle down, as now I have a fiancee and she wants to settle. The problem with tourism is hormones, alcohol and the stress there is at work. So people get messed up either psychologically or thanks to alcohol.

Havent though about vindictive people. Never happend to me before. But in general yes - fighting is stupid. I really though about signing fight sports due to my old man, who is an ex wrestler. Always wanted to make him proud. And that some day soon I am going to be a father and I should be able to protect family. Get some confidence in stressful situations and in general fight sports are stress release and have helped me in generally feeling strong and confident as a man.

 

[freaky]

Hi,

I'm a 35 year old male and have not taken any self defense classes in my life. My wife is having twins and I realized I could not properly defend them if there was ever a alteration where violence was necessary. I looked around my area and could not separate the good boxing gyms from the bad. And what I mean by bad, is just a gym for cardio not meant for anything serious. What I am looking for is a great gym that can help me prepare myself in-case I ever have to defend my family. How would anyone in situation go about their selection.

Thanks.

How you tell from a good gym vs a bad gym is first do they SPAR? What are their curriculum? Many boxing gyms nowadays are strictly boxercise classes. Do they do DRILLS or just have you go crazy on the bags for a work out? Do they have legit competitors?





1) spar: real sparring. My current gym is a boxercise gym but they still somehow met all the criteria I mentioned. So you need to differentiate between real sparring and fake sparring. My gym have sparring but it's body hits only. No head hits. So it's not real sparring.

2) drills: Real combat drills. I don't mean hitting pads with each other. Make sure they're real partner drills in which your partner is throwing punches at you and you're slipping or countering properly. Make sure the coach corrects your technique. Too many lazy trainers out there.

3) Competitors. My gym have real competitors and pro boxers but they never train with us. They're part of a so called "fight team". So unless you're part of the fight team, you'd be getting half ass boxercise classes. My other gym, a legit gym had real amateurs and pros training with us. The drills they did are the same drills we do.

I've been to boxercise gyms and legit fight gyms. Legit gyms will be mostly drills with conditioning and at least 1 spar day/class a week. Boxercise gyms will be mostly conditioning and nothing else.

 

[a guy]

You seem to have some sort of vendetta against gun ownership. Isn't it true that suicide rates are also declining?you're argument that a gun owner is more likely to shoot a loved one or use the gun to kill themselves are largely put forth by the anti gun rights lobby.many have correctly stated that violent crime is declining,especially incidents of gun violence.over the same time period gun sales have skyrocketed.it seems like the ant gun lobby continues to move the goal posts . gun violence is down but now you shouldnt be allowed to own a gun because you might use it to kill yourself. there are millions of responsible gun owners who don't use their guns yo kill themselves or accidently blow away their kids. If you don't want to train for self defense than don't. If you dont want to own a gun than don't . no one is forcing you.just don't force your beliefs off on to anyone else . thanks

Man, you just went off on a whole rant thinking I'm anti-gun because you have a vendetta against anti-gun people. I never said you shouldn't be allowed to own a gun, and I didn't force my beliefs on anybody. I'm not even fucking anti-gun. Far from it. I think guns are great, and I think it's every person's right to own them. You're doing a lot of projecting here.

Seriously. Take a step back and think about why you reacted like you did to my posts--the point of which are to point out that it's kind of silly to spend so much time breaking our bodies down learning to fight when we'll realistically almost never need to fight, and are gonna have more money, time and health taken by our training than we would from the hypothetical violence we're training to survive. My point about the guns is an analogy to illustrate that point.

Nobody is coming to take your guns. Relax.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

If you need to defend children from a violent attack, boxing is not what you're looking for. Boxing is great for 1v1s in a bar or playground. If someone is trying to kill babies (do you live in South Sudan??) you need a gun and some proper firearm training. At the very least keep a baseball bat by your bed, and with a bat and zero training you can take 99% of martial artists.

Not even kidding, get a bat and take like... a month's worth of baseball classes and you'll have a good idea of how to get a monster swing going.

 

[ClosetVitorFan]

 

[fluffball]

Can you direct me to a Youtube channel where I can see some legitimate baseball bat forms?

BTW I read in Black Belt that Century is coming out with one in cocobolo.

I suppose escrima sticks are pretty much the same thing. They're probably a little more versatile than a bat, but you'd have more power in a bat. Just the equally spaced grip to hit with a stabbing motion would be good to know.

I'm sure someone has made training exercises for bats, now I'm sort of curious. Honestly some medieval European weapon dorks probably know a good bit about how to use a bat to maim someone. It's basically a mace or some other sort of club. As far as I understand that's how swords were used as well, they were more bludgeon weapons and weren't sharp except on the end. I've seen some videos of guys holding sword blades like they were escrima sticks.

 

[j123]

Can you direct me to a Youtube channel where I can see some legitimate baseball bat forms?

BTW I read in Black Belt that Century is coming out with one in cocobolo.

 

[j123]

Yeah I agree it is a waste of energy. However I think it is a problem with false confidence we get by training fight sports. We are up for the challenge as we have experience in it. And we do not like our social status being damaged, I guess the fighter or call it warrior spirit gets into us. I should really shut about training in my social circle. I just switched cities again, so I am going to keep calm about it, so no one confronts me again. It is a good advice.

Its always an issue, but you have to really learn how to put people in their place (or alpha them out for a lack of a better word) by words. If caveman wants to impress a dame by going physical and you shut him down by a silver tongue, he's ruined any chance.

So far I haven't noticed any pluses for mentioning training to people who aren't in the community. Had people feel insulted and try to challenge me, others thinking I'm a barbaric violent brute, others don't believe me and think I'm some kind of poser, then there's the people judging me for why I enjoy the sport. Its a sport, but it still has alot of negative connotations to it, Its one thing I don't get. NFL guy gets into a scrap and well he can't help it and its okay, Jones does stupid things, and all of a sudden the moral police is out there shitting on everyone in the sport. For odd reasons martial artists and combat sport practitioners have some weird moralistic high standards that we're supposed to adhere to while everyone else gets a pass.

Regarding my take down attempt it was a very lame one, and my wrestling knowledge is from when I was 7 years old as father an ex wrestler signed me wrestling while I wanted to go soccer. Guess I have not paid attention

Sprawl and brawl it is for you then

No idea who Patric Swayne is. Ok I just googled him. But it was the adrenaline rush and the how fucking scared I was after being dropped down by a sucker punch. I literally tough I am going to get beaten badly and went on some survival mode. I have never ever been in this mode again. It was heart pumping, head not thinking. I was just "get up, get up, get up" after I hit the floor. I literally had no idea what I was doing.

I am working mainly at hotels. Been all over Europe the past years, but lastly I returned home, but still switching resorts and cities to find a proper job and settle down, as now I have a fiancee and she wants to settle. The problem with tourism is hormones, alcohol and the stress there is at work. So people get messed up either psychologically or thanks to alcohol.

Good to hear, I got a friend who's looking to get into that area, and says its probably a laxed job... guess not.

Havent though about vindictive people. Never happend to me before. But in general yes - fighting is stupid. I really though about signing fight sports due to my old man, who is an ex wrestler. Always wanted to make him proud. And that some day soon I am going to be a father and I should be able to protect family. Get some confidence in stressful situations and in general fight sports are stress release and have helped me in generally feeling strong and confident as a man.

I hear ya. No one ever wants to back down, even the most submissive, "nice", confrontational-avoider will always feel terrible and humiliated deep down for folding

 

[Pugilistic]

Good points @a guy. In my 31 years of being alive, I've never been in a fight outside the ring or a mat since highschool. When someone tried to fuck with me, I would troll the guy and confuse him until he walks away, or similarly, be over-friendly so that they walk away. People looking for a fight are looking for a fight, so being really friendly with them subverts their expectations. I never feel like I "backed down" because I felt I was the one in control and not giving into the other guy wants. Plus, I figure I would destroy them anyway if we did fight. But those situations are rare. I avoid places where shit is more likely to go down, and avoid hanging out with people who are more likely to start shit. And if shit does go down, I try to stay far away from it.