Ok, first of all I dont plan to do MMA and i have no unrealistic expectations for self defense. My only concern is for fitness and being in shape, of course having some basis to be able to defend myself is a plus. I'am not asking which one is stronger or better since i know it is not a relevant question. The thing is that i just started to train in Kyokushin a few month ago. Last week i went with a friend to test a Muay Thai session, the training was very intense, especially regarding the cardio, which sadly is not so developed in our dojo. Adding to that muay thai has punches to the face and clinch which are absent in Kyokushin. It seems however that in the other hand Karate doesn't offer anything that is not present in Muay Thai? I dont try to disrespect Karate, it is actually my favorite sport and that is why i'am afraid to miss on something that would bring me more benefits just because of my personal preferences. The fact is that i can only train 3 times a week and in Kyokushin we have already 1 full day for Kata and Kihon which leaves only 2 days for real training (by "real" i mean where we actually sweat), and we generally do sparring only once a week. In the other hand in the Muay Thai gym it would be 3 days of full cardio training and fighting training (pads, punshing bag,...), and sparring. So what would be the pros of Kyokushin over Muay Thai? Since each is supposed to has it pros and cons? Does Kata and Kihon has such a great benefits on the long run that it can balance with the other aspects Kyokushin lack?