Kyokushin/Muay Thai pros and cons

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Deaf, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. Deaf White Belt

    Deaf
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    Ok, first of all I dont plan to do MMA and i have no unrealistic expectations for self defense. My only concern is for fitness and being in shape, of course having some basis to be able to defend myself is a plus.

    I'am not asking which one is stronger or better since i know it is not a relevant question.

    The thing is that i just started to train in Kyokushin a few month ago. Last week i went with a friend to test a Muay Thai session, the training was very intense, especially regarding the cardio, which sadly is not so developed in our dojo. Adding to that muay thai has punches to the face and clinch which are absent in Kyokushin. It seems however that in the other hand Karate doesn't offer anything that is not present in Muay Thai?

    I dont try to disrespect Karate, it is actually my favorite sport and that is why i'am afraid to miss on something that would bring me more benefits just because of my personal preferences.

    The fact is that i can only train 3 times a week and in Kyokushin we have already 1 full day for Kata and Kihon which leaves only 2 days for real training (by "real" i mean where we actually sweat), and we generally do sparring only once a week. In the other hand in the Muay Thai gym it would be 3 days of full cardio training and fighting training (pads, punshing bag,...), and sparring.

    So what would be the pros of Kyokushin over Muay Thai? Since each is supposed to has it pros and cons? Does Kata and Kihon has such a great benefits on the long run that it can balance with the other aspects Kyokushin lack?
     
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  2. shinkyoku Brown Belt

    shinkyoku
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    The kyokushin sessions I have been to that was not intensively draining physically have been few and far between. Kata one full day a week on a regular basis in kyokushin is just.. weird.
    Bagwork, padwork, sparring. That is the core of kyokushin. Sure kihon and kata are there, but only as a lead in to the fight training. Even in Kata focused classes westart with intense warmup, and end with atleast 10 or so rounds of sparring.
    Go take a look at the classes above beginner level, and get a idea of how training in your dojo is.

    as for pros for kyokushin over MT? how about not getting punch drunk?
     
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  3. j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

    j123
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    Kyokushin pros:
    • Better music than thai music. Thai music = cat getting skinned alive
    • Drumline makes you wanna die like a man
    • karate's very own "Let me bang bro" striking style

    ...thats all I got
     
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  4. krugansjj KRUGAN

    krugansjj
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    The muay thai is far superior to any fight in order to karate.
    Muay Thai uses the Elbow, Knee, Leg and Hand.
    According to Kata and Kihon it does not help at all and the purest waste of time.
     
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  5. esum80 Tiger KNEE

    esum80
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    i think you know the answer to that already since you think muay thai has more intense cardio conditioning than what is offered at your karate dojo.
     
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  6. spacetime Brown Belt

    spacetime
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    Recreational training is not going to make him punch drunk.
     
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  7. spacetime Brown Belt

    spacetime
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    Kyokushin pros: conditioning bare knuckled punching is a great psychological asset to have in a street fight.

    Cons: main sparring/free fighting format is an ascquired taste, to put it mildly.

    Muay Thai: Pros: utilizes all limbs in the sparring format and teaches you either directly or indirectly some form of boxing defence.

    Cons: Muay Thai gyms can vary in quality a LOT.
     
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  8. AusTosh White Belt

    AusTosh
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    Well according to your knowledge, I'd hate to put it to you this way but you're completely wrong.

    Whilst I agree that Kata isn't my favourite part of Kyokushin, saying that it doesn't help with your Kumite is complete bullshit. Being able to execute your kata and kihon with proper technique and form or not will show in your kumite... It teaches proper balance, hip movement, impact etc. for instance, if you can execute a proper Gyakuzuki in Zenkutsudachi, 100% you'll be able to execute a nice cross punch.

    Honestly for kyokushin depends on the dojo (some are more knockdown/sparring based). for example at our dojo we have 'fighters classes' 4 times a week which is usually an hour after hour 90 mins of training. that is purely sparring, padwork, combinations, drills etc. so even though I train at a dojo, our dojo stills gives us the opportunity to train 4 x a week (sparring 2-3 x a week). One thing I admit with kyokushin is the lack of head punches so on top of kyokushin I do boxing (cross - train) 1-2 x a week. If you can find a legit kyokushin dojo for oath go check it out, the mental advantage you get is one of the best imo and helps heaps with flexibility etc. hard to find ones that are great in every suburb imo unless you live in Japan or Eastern Europe (sure there's the exceptions of a few dojos you could call world class like in each main country like England, Australia etc.) ive been lucky to train under a world class sensei.

    I'd say go with the gym/dojo with the better instructors/coach/sensei etc within the closest proximity.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 7:38 AM
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  9. shincheckin Green Belt

    shincheckin
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    kyokushin is similar to muay thai in many ways. I would say do both if you can. Kyokushin has more variety of kicks and are also faster, and only lack in power from muay thai a bit, sure muay thai kicks are stronger but kyokushin kicks are plenty strong. Kyokushin will also give you the flexibility to be able to kick to the head easily. and for the record I compete in muay thai and muay thai is all I know but I would like to cross train kyokushin.

    does anyone know of any Kyokushin gyms in socal?
     
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  10. William Huggins White Belt

    William Huggins
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    But, But.....Muay Thai has the lady boys!!!
     
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  11. AusTosh White Belt

    AusTosh
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    Always love seeing an open minded nak muay. I find a lot of people on this forum are ignorant on most styles other than Muay thai or boxing when it comes to the striking department.

    As a shinkyokushinkai i can agree that kyokushin will teach you kicks at a closer range even head kick at elbow range due to its modern nature of knockdown fighting (staying within the pocket). Also a fan of the mt kick too. those kicks are viscous. Like a baseball bat swinging for its life! Beauty of martial arts hey, its a never ending learning journey

    All i can say is if u find the right dojo thats focused on tournamets and producing world class knockdown fighters you will benefit heaps man. Unfortunately thats hard outside of Europe and Japan. Id say go on google search kyokushin and shinkyokushin in xxxxx. If no luck try the affiliates like enshin, ashihara, seido-kaikan, shidokan etc (Long story short like most martial arts kyokushin has political roots too more post mas oyama's passing)
     
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  12. dudeguyman Kosen Ju-Jitsu

    dudeguyman
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    Simple, Which one offers more sparring? in my opinion which school is better for you out of the two is the same as which school has you practice more. if you are only hitting mits/pads or bags, well... thats not bad but that will cripple the speed of your training. you need live sparring, let me be clear, not everyday gym wars but real technical sparring which is a cardio workout in itself.
     
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  13. shincheckin Green Belt

    shincheckin
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    Unfortunately thats hard outside of Europe and Japan.

    the same goes with muay thai outside of thailand! :(
     
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  14. shinkyoku Brown Belt

    shinkyoku
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    elbow
    [​IMG]
    although not used frequently since the rules only allow them targets below the neck, check.

    knee
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    check.

    leg
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    check.

    hand
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    oh, yeah,check.
     
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  15. krugansjj KRUGAN

    krugansjj
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    This is missing photo, elbow is not allowed in kyokushin.
     
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  16. krugansjj KRUGAN

    krugansjj
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  17. Tayski Purple Belt

    Tayski
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    Both arts are truly great. I've dubbed in a lot of striking arts and Kyokushin and Muay Thai really stuck out for me.

    It's more about the instructor/dojo/gym and level + mindset of the other students rather than the art itself though.

    You should go for the one that has the best training, instruction and sparing partners rather than looking at just the style.

    For example I would most likely choose training Kung Fu under a very legit instructor alongside really skillful students rather than in a bad Muay Thai gym with a crappy instructor and some assholes as training partners.

    There are things you will find in Kyokushin Karate and not in Muay Thai, and vice versa.

    But from what you described that Kyokushin dojo seems to be pretty bad compared to the average Kyokushin dojo, and you seem to find the Muay Thai training better, so I guess you know the answer already.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017 at 3:37 PM
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  18. AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

    AndyMaBobs
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    Y'know your basement? Well right underneath that.
    You were just proved wrong, why are you still arguing it?
     
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  19. AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

    AndyMaBobs
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    Y'know your basement? Well right underneath that.
    Best advice you can get. When I was younger I was sure that I was going to do all these different styles and train them, I wanted to do Kyokushin, Judo, BJJ, Muay Thai, MMA etc. ... I've had a go of most of them but in the end it was muay thai that stuck with me.
     
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  20. shinkyoku Brown Belt

    shinkyoku
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    Ill admit that I cannot find a good photo from a tournament (unlike the other techniques) and picked a picture from a demo. The good youtube video examples I knew and had links to are gone (Ill especially miss Donatas Imbras doing the 12-6 elbow to the clavicle. it was a signature move for him when breaking a close clinch and crerate space for a kick, but Ill cannot find any vids of in at the moment), and I wont spend an entire evening hunting after one to prove a point on a webforum. But elbows are very much allowed in kyokushin tournaments -with the same restrictions as fists. Thrust me on that. I do know kyokushin rules.
    Common targets are the clavicle bone, and it is often used to punish a fighters guard arm, to make him lower it for a headkick.
    They are uncommon because when you are not allowed to hit the head with them, they are not really that effective, and so they are saved for other competition rule tournaments.

    Ofcourse, it is one of the 4 required basic techniques in breaking segment of tournaments (which are used as a tiebreaker).
    As a technique, it is taught starting on early belts. Ascending, descending, horizontal, spinning -any version you can think of.

    It is allowed under shinken shobu rules in kyokushinkan (shinken shobu rules allow small gloves and headpunching). But I dont have access to a good online vid or picture gallery of tournaments under that ruleset.

    And I cannot stop myself from showing these little clips from Howard Collins (top level kyokushin fighter back in his days, top shinkyokushin profile, and a real nice guy) seminar .


    Not for a tournament rule setting, but still taught.
     
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