Judo or boxing twice a week

All great points and I agree. I don't believe there's a max age you can start Judo, but I was just observing that MOST guys I train BJJ with are reluctant to go full speed TDs after around mid 30's, even if they're in otherwise great shape. Our gym even used to offer a Judo class and it was just me and one other BJJ guy that showed up. It was mostly boxers and kickboxers who wanted to learn TDs and TD defense to round out their game, but 95% of the BJJ guys were like nah, I'm good.

Out of curiosity, how long did it take the brown belt to get back on track and test for shodan and how many classes per week has he been doing? I'm in the same boat myself and have been either nikkyu or ikkyu (I think I had the points for ikkyu but not sure if my club ever submitted the paperwork) since mid 90's which is the last time I competed under IJF. I guess I'd have to pay back dues for 28 years time in grade at brown + whatever requirements the new club wants to see in order to test for shodan?

He was up to speed on no time. He's a personal trainer and in great shape. Very athletic man especially for his age

He trains 2-3 times per week and has done brilliantly in comps despite his hiatus. He was winning or placing 2nd in most comps and entered a few
 
Yup, my bad I should have said MATCHING you in aiyotsu with their right hand gripping your left lapel and your right hand gripping their left lapel. And yes I do koshi guruma and other throws FROM the right side, stepping in with my right foot and turning to my left. One consideration here is that RIGHT side Judo throws initiated with right foot forward and right hand gripping uke's left lapel still involve TURNING to your left to complete the throw and looking left i.e. checking your watch as you pull up uke's sleeve, which is similar to the movement from an orthodox boxing stance where you're also looking over your left shoulder.

And after years and years of drilling punches from an orthodox stance and Judo throws from a right side stance, my body is more accustomed to turning to my left and I have much better ROM in both my neck and lower back turning in that direction vs. to the right. I probably have some spine curvature imbalances because as I've started to do more stretching as I've aged, I'm trying to correct it by stretching more to my right side and can always crack my back going that way vs. turning to left. Probably the only way I'm going to equalize it will be to box southpaw for a few years and go for exclusively left side Judo throws so my back can be equally fucked up in both directions lol.
Thanks, yes it all makes sense. As you may remember from our conversations I have been doing wrestling for almost a year now and my intuition is that the right foot forward for righties is even more prevalent in freestyle than in judo, which lends itself quite well to attempt outside singles where I shoot by stepping in with my left foot, which is already in front. I will study this because all my game is upper body throws, so I need to have at least one legit threat from the bottom.
 
I see many on here saying that the window is closing at late 20s to be competent in Judo

I disagree. I started at 37 and I'm doing very well for my age. I started with 3x per week and now train twice and I'm learning fast

Now of course I'm more a hobbyist and only compete sometimes, but put me up against a beginner in Judo and I'm much more advanced

I may lack the pure technique of someone much younger, but I'm big and athletic and it has helped

I was a boxer and kickboxer in my youth and 20s. Starting martial art when younger is obviously always beneficial, but you can start Judo later and still obtain a decent level. One of my coaches is a 49 year old 3rd Dan who started aged 31 and he is absolutely lethal.

I also have a guy in our Dojo who quit Judo for work reasons 20 years ago as a brown belt and started back last year aged 53. He has his 100 points now and will be doing his theory for Shodan

If you look after your body, strength train and do your stretching? Then you can still train hard

Judo is obviously much more intense than BJJ, so it's not recommended to train every day like you are going to the Olympics if older

However, 2 or 3 times per week is definitely doable imo
Of course, the 30 YO is a rule of thumb with dispersion around the average. For some people that window is 20 or 25 (people with poor balance and spacial awareness). For some more privileged people like you it will be around 40.

I think if you have natural abilities for an activity it will be much later, while thaz same person who is a natural in one activity starting at 40 would not be able to learn another activity passed say, 23, lol.
 
Of course, the 30 YO is a rule of thumb with dispersion around the average. For some people that window is 20 or 25 (people with poor balance and spacial awareness). For some more privileged people like you it will be around 40.

I think if you have natural abilities for an activity it will be much later, while thaz same person who is a natural in one activity starting at 40 would not be able to learn another activity passed say, 23, lol.

I'm fucked today after circuits and randori last night, so maybe I'm done lol
 
He was up to speed on no time. He's a personal trainer and in great shape. Very athletic man especially for his age

He trains 2-3 times per week and has done brilliantly in comps despite his hiatus. He was winning or placing 2nd in most comps and entered a few

That's really cool and great to hear, and I'm in the same boat about to turn 50. Still train 5-6 days/week between BJJ, wrestling and weight training and am even still semi-proficient at TDs, just haven't been able to focus on it for a long time.

Was your friend doing only masters tournys or regular senior division? Biggest issue for me is the closest legit Judo gym is almost an hour away, although I'm starting to consider that to also get my son introduced to Judo on top of BJJ and wrestling. But Judo tournys in my area are VERY few and far between and I don't see any real masters comps. And while I pride myself on being in great shape for my age, getting launched by 25 yo brown and black belts doesn't sound like a good time.
 
Thanks, yes it all makes sense. As you may remember from our conversations I have been doing wrestling for almost a year now and my intuition is that the right foot forward for righties is even more prevalent in freestyle than in judo, which lends itself quite well to attempt outside singles where I shoot by stepping in with my left foot, which is already in front. I will study this because all my game is upper body throws, so I need to have at least one legit threat from the bottom.
Yup I remember bro. I don't know if I'd agree that right foot forward is more common in freestyle. Most guys tend to alternate sides and dynamically circle to either side while being more hunched forward, so not really comparable to the more upright stance you tend to see in boxing and Judo.

But if you like to shoot a high single leg on uke's right leg (stepping forward with your left leg), that's probably my highest percent TD. If you're familiar with o uchi gari reaping uke's other leg, you just do that as soon as you get uke's right leg in the air. It's very effective once you get it down smoothly. I used to do this a lot when I was younger but here's a gif of me doing it in a BJJ tourny a few years ago when I was already old AF. It's worth Ippon in Judo and at least 3 points in freestyle:

 
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That's really cool and great to hear, and I'm in the same boat about to turn 50. Still train 5-6 days/week between BJJ, wrestling and weight training and am even still semi-proficient at TDs, just haven't been able to focus on it for a long time.

Was your friend doing only masters tournys or regular senior division? Biggest issue for me is the closest legit Judo gym is almost an hour away, although I'm starting to consider that to also get my son introduced to Judo on top of BJJ and wrestling. But Judo tournys in my area are VERY few and far between and I don't see any real masters comps. And while I pride myself on being in great shape for my age, getting launched by 25 yo brown and black belts doesn't sound like a good time.

I think both to be honest, but mainly masters
I'm in Ireland, while BJJ is definitely the number 1 grappling sport for Adults, Judo is still pretty popular and huge for kids

I live in the North of Ireland and there are still a lot of Judo clubs

To be honest as much as I enjoy it (still only intermediate) I do feel beat up day(s) after training. I had to cut the training down to twice instead of 3 and supplement it with light cardio and some strength training.

That guy I'm telling you about is a smaller quite muscly/athletic dude. I don't know what height you are but he's about 5'6 70kg and I believe that may be beneficial as you age and take impact?

I'm 6'1 and over 100kg and the old saying "bigger they are, the harder they fall" rings true

You seem to have a great thing going and in my humble opinion, fuck Judo and do what you are doing!!
 
I think both to be honest, but mainly masters
I'm in Ireland, while BJJ is definitely the number 1 grappling sport for Adults, Judo is still pretty popular and huge for kids

I live in the North of Ireland and there are still a lot of Judo clubs

To be honest as much as I enjoy it (still only intermediate) I do feel beat up day(s) after training. I had to cut the training down to twice instead of 3 and supplement it with light cardio and some strength training.

That guy I'm telling you about is a smaller quite muscly/athletic dude. I don't know what height you are but he's about 5'6 70kg and I believe that may be beneficial as you age and take impact?

I'm 6'1 and over 100kg and the old saying "bigger they are, the harder they fall" rings true

You seem to have a great thing going and in my humble opinion, fuck Judo and do what you are doing!!

Interesting point about longevity and different body sizes. I'm 5' 8" 172 lbs/78 kg and have been +/- 15 lbs with different workout routines over the past 30 years but that's been my stable adult weight since the 90's. That seems to be around average or even a little heavier than average for younger guys but older guys I train around tend to be heavier. At my gym average guy >35 yo is 190-200 lbs. I agree smaller guy = less impact when being thrown but that's offset by heavier guy being harder to throw and tending to take fewer ass over head ippons. All else being equal and assuming they randori with same size partners, maybe smaller guys last longer. But IME smaller guys almost always turn into bigger guys as they gain weight with age lol.

However, one thing I am absolutely sure of is that being heavier is better for longevity in grappling on the mat. 95% of the >40 yo guys at my gym are heavier and that means they're usually rolling with guys smaller than them, which means fewer opportunities for back, neck and joints getting twisted awkwardly in scrambles. When they roll with each other, they also tend to be much more tentative than when trying to pass the guard of someone 40 lbs lighter. I can't blame them because habits are learned in training. I've adopted a more defensive game on the ground because I'm usually rolling with heavier guys that I need to fend off until I see an opening.
 
Interesting point about longevity and different body sizes. I'm 5' 8" 172 lbs/78 kg and have been +/- 15 lbs with different workout routines over the past 30 years but that's been my stable adult weight since the 90's. That seems to be around average or even a little heavier than average for younger guys but older guys I train around tend to be heavier. At my gym average guy >35 yo is 190-200 lbs. I agree smaller guy = less impact when being thrown but that's offset by heavier guy being harder to throw and tending to take fewer ass over head ippons. All else being equal and assuming they randori with same size partners, maybe smaller guys last longer. But IME smaller guys almost always turn into bigger guys as they gain weight with age lol.

However, one thing I am absolutely sure of is that being heavier is better for longevity in grappling on the mat. 95% of the >40 yo guys at my gym are heavier and that means they're usually rolling with guys smaller than them, which means fewer opportunities for back, neck and joints getting twisted awkwardly in scrambles. When they roll with each other, they also tend to be much more tentative than when trying to pass the guard of someone 40 lbs lighter. I can't blame them because habits are learned in training. I've adopted a more defensive game on the ground because I'm usually rolling with heavier guys that I need to fend off until I see an opening.

That makes a lot of sense buddy
I notice wheb I train open matt that a few lighter mates like to play defensive with me probably for 2 reasons

1. I suck at BJJ
2. I'm a much bigger guy than most and have good strength. My weight ranges from 225-260 (though I don't intend to ever go above 245 again touch wood lol)

I'm a good practice dummy.

I will never spaz out and hurt anyone
I'm not skilled enough to really threaten a submission on anyone with experience
I'm strong and quite intense, so it makes good practice if you are ever tackled by a brute
 
That makes a lot of sense buddy
I notice wheb I train open matt that a few lighter mates like to play defensive with me probably for 2 reasons

1. I suck at BJJ
2. I'm a much bigger guy than most and have good strength. My weight ranges from 225-260 (though I don't intend to ever go above 245 again touch wood lol)

I'm a good practice dummy.

I will never spaz out and hurt anyone
I'm not skilled enough to really threaten a submission on anyone with experience
I'm strong and quite intense, so it makes good practice if you are ever tackled by a brute

I think older wrestlers and judoka transitioning to BJJ is almost inevitable if they want to keep training - and for judoka it's a natural transition with newaza being the same. But the biggest difference for me was pace. Wrestling and Judo rules encourage competitors to explode into everything and smash uke into bolivian. You can do that in BJJ but unless you have pornstar cardio, you're going to gas yourself out against a competent guard player before your 2nd or 3rd 5 min roll.

BJJ tends to be slower paced and more methodical. And being a bigger guy, keep in mind that you have gravity and strength on your side so you can afford to take risks and play with positions without having to muscle things vs. smaller training partners. The goal should be to flow, even if you're doing it with intensity, and it's impossible to do that when you're muscling. Ironically it's usually smaller weaker guys who get good at this (because they can't muscle anything), but it's bigger guys who SHOULD be able to learn this faster, they just usually revert back to brute force because it's faster and easier.

Back to Judo, that's always been my goal on the feet. When I used to compete as a brown, I was still relying heavily on wrestling athleticism to force moves. But the smooth kuzushi I've always associated with nidan+ proficiency feels effortless. Going randori with those guys, they could just time me and reap, sweep or throw me in whatever direction I moved, like some jedi mindtrick shit. High level wrestlers I've trained with also seem to develop this ability although I've never seen it specifically taught in wrestling. Years of training outside of Judo and with BJJ guys who suck at TDs has made me more confident in my TDs but I've accepted that I'm unlikely to ever get great at kuzushi without consistently training under a good Judo coach.
 
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I think older wrestlers and judoka transitioning to BJJ is almost inevitable if they want to keep training - and for judoka it's a natural transition with newaza being the same. But the biggest difference for me was pace. Wrestling and Judo rules encourage competitors to explode into everything and smash uke into bolivian. You can do that in BJJ but unless you have pornstar cardio, you're going to gas yourself out against a competent guard player before your 2nd or 3rd 5 min roll.

BJJ tends to be slower paced and more methodical. And being a bigger guy, keep in mind that you have gravity and strength on your side so you can afford to take risks and play with positions without having to muscle things vs. smaller training partners. The goal should be to flow, even if you're doing it with intensity, and it's impossible to do that when you're muscling. Ironically it's usually smaller weaker guys who get good at this (because they can't muscle anything), but it's bigger guys who SHOULD be able to learn this faster, they just usually revert back to brute force because it's faster and easier.

Back to Judo, that's always been my goal on the feet. When I used to compete as a brown, I was still relying heavily on wrestling athleticism to force moves. But the smooth kuzushi I've always associated with nidan+ proficiency feels effortless. Going randori with those guys, they could just time me and reap, sweep or throw me in whatever direction I moved, like some jedi mindtrick shit. High level wrestlers I've trained with also seem to develop this ability although I've never seen it specifically taught in wrestling. Years of training outside of Judo and with BJJ guys who suck at TDs has made me more confident in my TDs but I've accepted that I'm unlikely to ever get great at kuzushi without consistently training under a good Judo coach.
lol “ Pornstar Cardio .” The gold standard.
 
Boxing is great for self defense, throw punches quick and get out (assuming you're at a bar or club.)
 
I think older wrestlers and judoka transitioning to BJJ is almost inevitable if they want to keep training - and for judoka it's a natural transition with newaza being the same. But the biggest difference for me was pace. Wrestling and Judo rules encourage competitors to explode into everything and smash uke into bolivian. You can do that in BJJ but unless you have pornstar cardio, you're going to gas yourself out against a competent guard player before your 2nd or 3rd 5 min roll.

BJJ tends to be slower paced and more methodical. And being a bigger guy, keep in mind that you have gravity and strength on your side so you can afford to take risks and play with positions without having to muscle things vs. smaller training partners. The goal should be to flow, even if you're doing it with intensity, and it's impossible to do that when you're muscling. Ironically it's usually smaller weaker guys who get good at this (because they can't muscle anything), but it's bigger guys who SHOULD be able to learn this faster, they just usually revert back to brute force because it's faster and easier.

Back to Judo, that's always been my goal on the feet. When I used to compete as a brown, I was still relying heavily on wrestling athleticism to force moves. But the smooth kuzushi I've always associated with nidan+ proficiency feels effortless. Going randori with those guys, they could just time me and reap, sweep or throw me in whatever direction I moved, like some jedi mindtrick shit. High level wrestlers I've trained with also seem to develop this ability although I've never seen it specifically taught in wrestling. Years of training outside of Judo and with BJJ guys who suck at TDs has made me more confident in my TDs but I've accepted that I'm unlikely to ever get great at kuzushi without consistently training under a good Judo coach.

Holy shit, almost word for word my thoughts and experience.

Are you my doppleganger?
 
Possibly. Also military vet, old man grappling game and likes kesa. Check.

I think we need @KBE6EKCTAH_CCP to settle this.
I think that we can cohabit as dollelgangers with you in the middle, even if that sounds extremely gh3y.

In fact, @Thrawn33 and myself go way back. I was Thrawn's second disciple back in the days when JBG followers were a secret society. True story and Thrawn will confirm.
 
I think that we can cohabit as dollelgangers with you in the middle, even if that sounds extremely gh3y.

In fact, @Thrawn33 and myself go way back. I was Thrawn's second disciple back in the days when JBG followers were a secret society. True story and Thrawn will confirm.

Hell yes, those were the days

Back when I could write sermon in the Heavies and not have it instantly buried by 20 repetitive TMZ style shitposts..
 
I think that we can cohabit as dollelgangers with you in the middle, even if that sounds extremely gh3y.

In fact, @Thrawn33 and myself go way back. I was Thrawn's second disciple back in the days when JBG followers were a secret society. True story and Thrawn will confirm.

Hell yes, those were the days

Back when I could write sermon in the Heavies and not have it instantly buried by 20 repetitive TMZ style shitposts..

I think there's only one proper way to settle this. @Thrawn33 let's say you're walking across a bridge downtown with your wife/gf when a skateboarder who was about 29 years old and had 4 inches on you was at full speed and veered into your side of the bridge walkway and purposefully shoulder checked you in the face. This guy immediately gets in your face as you're still dazed and tells you he wants to eff you up and has his board up and ready to knock you out.

You don't know if the dude has a concealed firearm, knife or other weapon, or anything else about his intentions or mental state other than what just happened in the moment. Do you a) Fill the bridge with uppercuts and beat that fool into the living death or b) De-escalate as long as he doesn't show further aggression and just walk away?
 
I think there's only one proper way to settle this. @Thrawn33 let's say you're walking across a bridge downtown with your wife/gf when a skateboarder who was about 29 years old and had 4 inches on you was at full speed and veered into your side of the bridge walkway and purposefully shoulder checked you in the face. This guy immediately gets in your face as you're still dazed and tells you he wants to eff you up and has his board up and ready to knock you out.

You don't know if the dude has a concealed firearm, knife or other weapon, or anything else about his intentions or mental state other than what just happened in the moment. Do you a) Fill the bridge with uppercuts and beat that fool into the living death or b) De-escalate as long as he doesn't show further aggression and just walk away?

D) If his board is up, he's standing straight up and easily Osoto'd onto concrete. Tell the cops he fell to the ground and hit his head after running into me on his skateboard....it's not a lie....
 
I think there's only one proper way to settle this. @Thrawn33 let's say you're walking across a bridge downtown with your wife/gf when a skateboarder who was about 29 years old and had 4 inches on you was at full speed and veered into your side of the bridge walkway and purposefully shoulder checked you in the face. This guy immediately gets in your face as you're still dazed and tells you he wants to eff you up and has his board up and ready to knock you out.

You don't know if the dude has a concealed firearm, knife or other weapon, or anything else about his intentions or mental state other than what just happened in the moment. Do you a) Fill the bridge with uppercuts and beat that fool into the living death or b) De-escalate as long as he doesn't show further aggression and just walk away?
That fucking thread lol
 
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