Joe Rogan & Ben Askren explain the solution to all weight cutting problems

[Pound for Pound]

love this idea! makes so much sense. like many posters are saying, please implement before a death occurs

 

[Apollo33]

Natural 175 lb naturally drop down to 155?....isn't that through "Weight cutting", the very thing the OP i was responding to trying to speak against? That's virtually impossible, or you aren't a "natural" 175'er to begin with, just overweight.

Or maybe you meant 170, which reiterates my POINT. If a guy is a 175'er, why should he fight at 185, when his opponents will be considerably larger. He SHOULD fight at 170.

Some people HAVE to cut weight just to be in one division over the other where they are "closer" to the competition.

I do mean WW. I still don't see your point. When we say cutting weight, we are talking about losing water weight to be gained back up.

A fighter can definitely lose 5 pounds of body weight naturally without significantly impacting his performance.

Or alternatively the "natural" 175'er can gain maybe 4-5 pounds and fight at 185. Weight classes is a range not a mark you have to hit. Both fighters don't have to come in exactly the same weight. I don't think fighters care about giving up 4-5 pounds to an opponent on fight night. Hell you take a shit you weight like 2 pounds less.

 

[Sakuraba7]

I do mean WW. I still don't see your point. When we say cutting weight, we are talking about losing water weight to be gained back up.

A fighter can definitely lose 5 pounds of body weight naturally without significantly impacting his performance.

Or alternatively the "natural" 175'er can gain maybe 4-5 pounds and fight at 185. Weight classes is a range not a mark you have to hit. Both fighters don't have to come in exactly the same weight. I don't think fighters care about giving up 4-5 pounds to an opponent on fight night. Hell you take a shit you weight like 2 pounds less.

I am talking about about water weight.

A guy that is 175 before cutting water-weight, why should he fight someone who is 190 before cutting water-weight?

Or lets keep it constant across the board, he's 185 before cutting water-weight (person B), that's still a 10 lb jump when he (person A) could easily go 5 lbs below instead of punching 10 lbs above? One is closer to him than the other, what do you think he's going to choose?

 

[HIMBOB]

What if they're naturally 175? Are they supposed to fight guys naturally 190 lb?

You can't try to make sense out of what are already arbitrary compartmentalizations.

I dont understand your numbers both examples are 5 pounds over the division. So really you should be asking about 175 vs 185.

In that case Lose 5 pounds.


That problem is not caused by this and is already apparent. Right now however that problem displays itself as failed weight cuts hopefully just missing weight or cancelled fights but occasionally hospital trips or death.

 

[Sakuraba7]

I dont understand your numbers both examples are 5 pounds over the division. So really you should be asking about 175 vs 185.

In that case Lose 5 pounds.


That problem is not caused by this and is already apparent. Right now however that problem displays itself as failed weight cuts hopefully just missing weight or cancelled fights but occasionally hospital trips or death.

The problem is some people fall in the middle. In which case you have a choice to make: cut those 5 lbs and go down to opponents "closer" to you, or stay at 185 against opponent less closer (larger) than you?

This is the issue at LW-WW. Fighters can easily make 160, if they just had the division re-adjusted, but its harder to make 155 without professional assistance.

 

[Atomic 187]

Askren is very articulate

 

[Apollo33]

The problem is some people fall in the middle. In which case you have a choice to make: cut those 5 lbs and go down to opponents "closer" to you, or stay at 185 against opponent less closer (larger) than you?

This is the issue at LW-WW. Fighters can easily make 160, if they just had the division re-adjusted, but its harder to make 155 without professional assistance.

Are we still talking about the new system? you can't cut weight anymore. So if you are 175, it's up to you and your camp to decide if you want to lose some weight or gain some muscle, we are talking about 4-5 pounds to lose or gain in your off season. It doesn't sound too difficult to me imo or un-reasonable. walk around weights are not set in stone, in fact they fluctuate quite a bit for athletes.

Or they can adjust the weight classes to have smaller gaps.

 

[originalbadguy]

Why does it have to be so hard? Just make it so you fight the same day you weigh in!
Obviously no one is going to drop 20lbs and fight 2 hours later! Wrestling has been doing it for ever!

Some will cut a bit but for the most part you wont have guys at 215 cutting to 185 or 185 to 155 ect.
Guys will watch there diet, cut 5-10lbs of water weight, weight in the day of the fight eat relax and fight later that evening.

and obviously you need more classes
155
165
175
185
195
205
215
HWT

 

[giusti825]

#3 is pure keyboard warrior fodder. it doesn't help anyone succeed. it's bad policy that will fail miserably masked as "freedom", but keyboard warriors (and Ayn Randian types) love it.

Umm....wouldn't a 'Randian' want things to stay the same with the least amount of rules possible?

Where fighters have the 'freedom' to make weight by any means they see fit (excluding diuretics) without undue authoritarian interference?

I dont understand why you felt the need to include an unnecessary and incorrectly described reference in your post.

 

[EGarrett]

You must drink a quart of water an hour before you weigh-in.

Done.

:|

 

[Fluffernutter]

Don't most assume the first death in the UFC will be because of cutting weight, not getting punched in the face?

 

[MMouse]

i dont know what it is about askren that i dont like? being i hate tyron and askren it makes sense they hang out together

Looool

 

[MMouse]

This test is legit. They want everyone being hydrated when they weigh in.

Meaning, not large cuts.

 

[in the liver]

So if they implemented this system what would happen to the lhw division? Jon jones, dc, gustafsson, all those guys would now have to fight at heavyweight

 

[PivotPunch]

OK, so what is fully hydrated? Because it's not going to be the same from person to person, from gender to gender, nor is someone going to be the same from day to day.

What about someone that sweats profusely? Do they get an allowance for that?

What about someone with a urinary track infection? A mild case of diarrhea or a fever? What is done to accommodate them?

What if the fighter is diabetic? What kind of allowance would they receive?

What if the fighter ate something with sucrose/common table sugar in it? Say like a candy bar. Since that can skew the specific gravity how does one go about accounting for that?

What level is considered "fully hydrated"? 1.002? 1.010? 1.030?

Etc.

Just how you make a testosterone ratio limit. You talk to doctors and use the lowest number that is reasonable and you have to be that hydrated. If you sweat a lot then you have to drink more it doesn't matter how much you sweat if you are hydrated you are hydrated if not then you need to drink.

If you are dehyrdrated because you are ill same. They give you water to drink until you are hydrated. You can shit for hours you just need to be fully hydrated for a few minutes during the weigh in if you can't even do that then you are probably close to death and shouldn't be fighting anyway.


I don't know how food can affect that but if it does then fighters need to account for that and factor that in. Not that hard you just know x hours before the weigh in you should avoid certain foods that's it.

Most things are pretty easy to figure out

192lbs fighter would need to cut 7lbs to make 185, doesnt sound extreme at all, same guy is probably cutting to 170 currently and its "normal", what are the limits of their system? Probably not a fixed number, but a general idea?

They shouldn't be any limits. The 192lbs guy either has to diet down to 185 or he has to fight at 205 and can put on weight. Simple as that.
It doesn't change anything right now it's the same. Right now the 192lbs guy fights at 170lbs and let's say the maximum he can dehydrate is 20lbs. he still needs to diet down 2 lbs or he has to mvoe up. Nothing changes. 7lbs of water weight shouldn't be allowed there is no reason to allow it.

Depending on how the hydration limits are maybe some guys who are wlel hydrated can cut like 1-2lbs if they are usually very hydrated but it should be as strict as possible.

 

[Fluffernutter]

I like that he mentioned that the new weigh-in strategy makes it easier during media obligations.

I clearly remember the lead up to Rousey vs. Holm.

Ronda was obligated to do a number of TV and radio shows the week of the event.

I though that was crazy. I was wondering when on earth she would find the time to make weight.

When it came to weigh-ins, she looked horrible. Clearly, she tried to cut too much at too short of a time.

I still think she lost that fight before she entered the cage.

Meanwhile, Holly's only obligation was to show up and kick Ronda in the face.

 

[Fluffernutter]

Last take form me regarding the video:

Askren touches upon just how long the NCAA wrestling season is and that many of the guys in the NCAA tournament are injured.

Heck, I tell the kids I coach "The state champ this year may not be the best wrestler in your weightclass, he may just be the healthiest wrestler in your weightclass."

The NCAA wrestling season may simply be too long and grinding for the human body.

It's no surprise the last couple of year have gone like this:

2016: Kyle Snyder rests until late in the season. Ohio State pulls his red shirt....he wins the NCAA title
2017: Mark Hall rests until late in the season. Penn State pulls his red shirt....he wins the NCAA title
2018: Spencer Lee rests until late in the season. Iowa pulls his red shirt.....

 

[SeattleFightFan]

Umm....wouldn't a 'Randian' want things to stay the same with the least amount of rules possible?

Where fighters have the 'freedom' to make weight by any means they see fit (excluding diuretics) without undue authoritarian interference?

I dont understand why you felt the need to include an unnecessary and incorrectly described reference in your post.

oh i got war room-ish. forgive me.

i think Randian would be to eliminate weight classes altogether. or if not that, then yes, eliminate all rules (including reversing the IV ban)

but mostly i was taking a cheap shot. cheers.

 

[HIMBOB]

The problem is some people fall in the middle. In which case you have a choice to make: cut those 5 lbs and go down to opponents "closer" to you, or stay at 185 against opponent less closer (larger) than you?

This is the issue at LW-WW. Fighters can easily make 160, if they just had the division re-adjusted, but its harder to make 155 without professional assistance.

I am not against more divisions but the problem you are pointing to already exists and is largely unaffected by this change.

Let's say you are 155 and I'm 160 now I just more weight so I'm still bigger.

That's a separate issue. Maybe it should be tackled at the same time but it's certainly not required.

 

[HIMBOB]

Why does it have to be so hard? Just make it so you fight the same day you weigh in!
Obviously no one is going to drop 20lbs and fight 2 hours later! Wrestling has been doing it for ever!

Some will cut a bit but for the most part you wont have guys at 215 cutting to 185 or 185 to 155 ect.
Guys will watch there diet, cut 5-10lbs of water weight, weight in the day of the fight eat relax and fight later that evening.

and obviously you need more classes
155
165
175
185
195
205
215
HWT

Fighting dehydrated is 4 times more likely to cause brain damage.