Crime James Fields gets convincted of first-degree murder...

[Shoemaker]

I don't think you have to personally know the victim for it to be premeditated. If you simply planned to killed someone, and then went out and did it, doesn't that fulfill the requirements for pre-meditated murder?

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

Good. Fuck him. I hope he gets his wig split and his cheeks busted in prison.

 

[JbModest]

Right, both were there to fight and engage in violence and the one guy who took it too far, Fields, got convicted of murder after killing someone. And yet here you are playing apologist for a murderer.

Exactly.

 

[Gregolian]

VA has Capital Murder, Murder 1, and then Murder 2. That sort of thing is more likely to be capital murder.

See, didn't realize they have capital murder there.

That explains it for me why it's murder 1. I don't think WA has "capital murder" as murder 1 is a catch all here.

Good. Fuck him. I hope he gets his wig split and his cheeks busted in prison.

He won't, he'll be in PC most of his time inside probably. It's why though we wish it and it used to be true most pedos survive prison. They're in PC the whole goddamn time.

 

[KeepItRealist]

Yes you are

Is there any evidence Heather Hayer was attacking his car or rioting at all? On the other hand we have pretty definitive evidence that he sped his car into a crowd of people.

Attacking his car? No. Her social media postings proved she was she was definitely with Antifa who showed up with specifically to violate the rights of people. They were there to cause trouble. Antifa started the violence and rioting no question about that. If that had not happened, she would not have been killed. He didn't plow into a group of peaceful protestors.

 

[nac386]

Elements of premeditation noted by the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/07/us/james-fields-trial-charlottesville-verdict.html

"During the trial, prosecutors introduced evidence that Mr. Fields intended to commit harm when he drove from Ohio to attend the rally, which featured neo-Nazis bearing swastikas and Ku Klux Klan members. In a text message exchange with his mother before the rally, Mr. Fields was told to “be careful.” “We’re not the one who need to be careful,” he replied in a message that also included a photo of Adolf Hilter.

Prosecutors also showed the jury a cartoon that Mr. Fields had shared months earlier on Instagram of a car ramming into a crowd, with the words, “You have the right to protest but I’m late for work.” Other evidence included recordings of conversations that Mr. Fields had with his mother after his arrest, in which he described the counterprotesters at the rally as a “violent gang of terrorists,” and derided Ms. Heyer’s mother, Susan Bro, as an “anti-white liberal” who should be viewed as an enemy.

Video footage from that day showed Mr. Fields’s car idling, unmolested at an intersection, and even backing up out of the camera frame before it sped ahead into the crowd."

Yeah, he’s a deranged murderer.

The frightening part, is that some of the rhetoric he spewed is repeated by people on this forum. We have posters who have posted videos and joked about running people over with cars. We have a few that call people anti-white liberals too, or something similar.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Attacking his car? No. Her social media postings proved she was she was definitely with Antifa who showed up with weapons specifically to violate the rights of people. They were there to cause trouble.

So were the Unite the Right who brought their own weapons. If Heather Heyer ran over James Fields I'd be calling for her conviction but that's not how it went down. At the end of the day only one side killed someone that day.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

See, didn't realize they have capital murder there.

That explains it for me why it's murder 1. I don't think WA has "capital murder" as murder 1 is a catch all here.


He won't, he'll be in PC most of his time inside probably. It's why though we wish it and it used to be true most pedos survive prison. They're in PC the whole goddamn time.

He has a face that screams Punk City.

 

[Gregolian]

He has a face that screams Punk City.

That may be but I still imagine he'll be in PC when he's inside.

Those dudes in Texas that dragged that black kid chained to the back of their truck until he died I think spent their time in PC.

The only other option for most to survive is to join the prison political parties aka racial gangs like the AB.

 

[Shoemaker]

I'm actually surprised there's only 1 person on Sherdog working really hard to make excuses for this guy. Last year there would've been more.

See, progress isn't all bad.

 

[Quipling]

You're probably right, I only looked at it briefly.

Im basing this on the VA bar, but that was a few years ago.

Attacking his car? No. Her social media postings proved she was she was definitely with Antifa who showed up with specifically to violate the rights of people. They were there to cause trouble. Antifa started the violence and rioting no question about that. If that had no happened, likely she would not have been killed. He didn't plow into a group of peaceful protestors.

You keep insisting that she was a violent rioter who came to cville to disrupt other people with Antifa. But you're not posting anything supporting that. Even if you did, that's irrelevant to whether Fields premeditated.

 

[KeepItRealist]

Im basing this on the VA bar, but that was a few years ago.


You keep insisting that she was a violent rioter who came to cville to disrupt other people with Antifa. But you're not posting anything supporting that. Even if you did, that's irrelevant to whether Fields premeditated.

They took down her facebook account and social media postings that talked going shutting down the rally, Antifa still honors her regularly. She was a lifelong "social justice activist." You can find that easily. Pfft.

 

[JbModest]

Attacking his car? No. Her social media postings proved she was she was definitely with Antifa who showed up with specifically to violate the rights of people. They were there to cause trouble. Antifa started the violence and rioting no question about that. If that had not happened, she would not have been killed. He didn't plow into a group of peaceful protestors.

Why are you so interested in defending this guy? He clearly killed her using his car. His life was not in danger. He wasn't even marching with the Nazis/Klansmen.

 

[JamesRussler]

Pre meditation just means you had a choice in the murder. He chose to drive into the crowd. Maybe he didn't plan on killing someone when he got up that morning, but pre meditation does not have a time limit.

He would need to act with the intent to cause death. Take a look at the NC jury instruction for first degree murder:

"For you to find the defendant guilty of first degree murder. . .the State must prove five things beyond a reasonable doubt:

First, that the defendant intentionally and with malice killed the victim with a deadly weapon.
Malice means not only hatred, ill will, or spite, as it is ordinarily understood- to be sure, that is malice- but it also means that condition of mind that prompts a person to take the life of another intentionally or to intentionally inflict a wound with a deadly weapon upon another which proximately results in his death, without just cause, excuse or justification. . . .

Second, the State must prove that the defendant's act was a proximate cause of the victim's death. A proximate cause is a real cause, a cause without which the victim's death would not have occurred, and one that a reasonably careful and prudent person could foresee would probably produce such [injury] [damage] or some similar injurious result. . . .

Third, that the defendant intended to kill the victim. Intent is a mental attitude seldom provable by direct evidence. It must ordinarily be proved by circumstances from which it may be inferred. An intent to kill may be inferred from the nature of the assault, the manner in which it was made, the conduct of the parties and other relevant circumstances.

Fourth, that the defendant acted after premeditation, that is, that the defendant formed the intent to kill the victim over some period of time, however short, before the defendant acted.

Fifth, that the defendant acted with deliberation, which means that the defendant acted while the defendant was in a cool state of mind. This does not mean that there had to be a total absence of passion or emotion. If the intent to kill was formed with a fixed purpose, not under the influence of some suddenly aroused violent passion, it is immaterial that the defendant was in a state of passion or excited when the intent was carried into effect.​

IMO, the state cannot meet the first, third, and fifth elements. In particular, I just can't help but wonder what he's supposed to do if there is a crowd of people gathering around his car. Is he supposed to sit there and wait to get dragged out like Reginald Denny?

You think really think this guy's behavior is on par with the BTK killer or Night Stalker (true first degree murders)?

 

[KeepItRealist]

Why are you so interested in defending this guy? He clearly killed her using his car. His life was not in danger. He wasn't even marching with the Nazis/Klansmen.

People misunderstand. They think I'm defending him. Not at all My issue is with how they targeting him and punishing him due to his ideology. and not to the specific crime. Antifa showed up to violate his rights and those of other people at the rally. They said this openly, they engaged in violence and criminal activity before he ran her over. She was part of this group. She wasn't some innocent victim who was walking in the street for some reason. He couldn't have committed this crime if they had not been rioting and blocking the streets.

My issue is overcharging him in the first place and getting a conviction for a crime that involves two strangers.

 

[JbModest]

People misunderstand. They think I'm defending him. Not at all My issue is with how they targeting him due to his ideology and not to the specific crime. Antifa showed up to violate his rights and those of other people at the rally. They said this openly, they engaged in violence and criminal activity before he ran her over. She was part of this group. She wasn't some innocent victim who was walking in the street for some reason.

My issue is overcharging him in the first place and getting a conviction for a crime that involves two strangers.

How do you think he should've been charged?

 

[Islam Imamate]

Why are you so interested in defending this guy? He clearly killed her using his car. His life was not in danger. He wasn't even marching with the Nazis/Klansmen.

On some level I think its fair and useful to nitpick convictions like this if you feel that the letter and spirit of the law was undermined due to the court of public opinion. But he's clearly just trying to play the "both sides" game to try and downplay the murder and blame the victim.

 

[KeepItRealist]

How do you think he should've been charged?

With second-degree murder perhaps at best. First-degree murder charge in this case is being singled out for your beliefs.

 

[Shoemaker]

On some level I think its fair and useful to nitpick convictions like this if you feel that the letter and spirit of the law was undermined due to the court of public opinion. But he's clearly just trying to play the "both sides" game to try and downplay the murder and blame the victim.

I think @JamesRussler did a good job of the former without doing the latter.

 

[KeepItRealist]

On some level I think its fair and useful to nitpick convictions like this if you feel that the letter and spirit of the law was undermined due to the court of public opinion. But he's clearly just trying to play the "both sides" game to try and downplay the murder and blame the victim.

So you think out of good taste we should ignore that she was part of the Antifa rioters who showed up to attack those people and shut down their rally because they disagree with them? Not what I believe. Her own reasons for going to the rally to violate the rights of others should not be downplayed because she was killed. That's what has happened for the most part.