Is racism an evolution of ethnic group hate? Is it an actual Progressive idea in comparison?

[CauseImbetta]

I was high the other day and got this idea.


If you see Africa, eastern europe, etc...You will see that people hate each other because of ethnicity.....I don't get it. The people to an outsider look the same but they can see the differences and there is hardcore hate for eachother.



This explains it well.


So knowing this, I feel, it was the same in ancient times...people just hated anybody who was somewhat different....which led to conflict


Ethnic group hate is actually worse than racism.


Racism in a way unites people...a large group of people....so take for example Europe, before they probably hated eachother, but once they saw that they were different from the rest of the world....they united, in a sort of weird way...obviously conflicts still exist in this society but it's not like ethnic group hate.


Now Ethnic group hate on the other hand, is represented well by Africa.........and you can see, it leads to way more problems...because you dividing a shitload of people based on ethnicity....when they can work together and improve their society.

Ethnic Group hate, just leads to way more conflicts....If you can be at peace with your neighbor, how can you improve...Again just look at history with europe etc.


So in a way...Racism, is an actual progressive idea compared to ethnic group hate...and is the evolution of uniting humanity.


The next step in the evolution to unite Humanity, once and for all.....Specism?

Once aliens show up, suddenly we won't look that different from eachother and we will unfortunately create hate against em.

You raise interesting points.

 

[tkotom]

TS is a drug addict that thinks Europeans united to conquer the world haha. Europeans hated each other so much that they murdered each other non stop for thousands of years at a rate unseen between any other proximal ethnic groups.

 

[Bloodworth]

Experience and history. These groups make names for themselves and people respond.

There is a reason

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

Not according to the definition you posted yourself.



Well that is a bad comparison because 99% of the world to the vikings consisted of white. If you told them about a land called Japan it might as well be on another planet.

Yeah, there are no good terms but I think you can understand it.
Let's consider for the sake of argument race as white, black, asian. And ethnicity as language, culture and so on.
So, all whites uniting instead of fighting each other can be seen as progress. I guess.

I believe it has some validity because when you mix different ethnicities of the same race in a new country it usually goes on smoothly while when you mix races it usually causes problems. There were problems when Italians and the Irish first went to the USA but not nearly as serious as with black africans, natives or east asians. East asians also tend to mix pretty well among themselves in the US.

 

[MicroBrew]

Way too much generalizing.

There isnt really a difference anyways. A serb that hates bosnians is still considered racist. A hutu hating a tutsi is racist. A white german that hates white slavs is racist.

That's misapplication of the term "racist" though, which a lot of people often do. Serbs and Bosnians are just different ethnicities from the same race, same for Germans and Slavs. Don't know what the difference is between Hutus and Tutsis.

Jews and Palestinians are the same race and from the same linguistic group. Both are Semitic speakers. So the hate is just ethnic.

 

[tramendous]

That's misapplication of the term "racist" though, which a lot of people often do. Serbs and Bosnians are just different ethnicities from the same race, same for Germans and Slavs. Don't know what the difference is between Hutus and Tutsis.

Jews and Palestinians are the same race and from the same linguistic group. Both are Semitic speakers. So the hate is just ethnic.

no the definition of racism includes ethnicity.

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnicorigin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

^ UN definition of racial discrimination.

 

[tramendous]

Yeah, there are no good terms but I think you can understand it.
Let's consider for the sake of argument race as white, black, asian. And ethnicity as language, culture and so on.
So, all whites uniting instead of fighting each other can be seen as progress. I guess.

I believe it has some validity because when you mix different ethnicities of the same race in a new country it usually goes on smoothly while when you mix races it usually causes problems. There were problems when Italians and the Irish first went to the USA but not nearly as serious as with black africans, natives or east asians. East asians also tend to mix pretty well among themselves in the US.

i think that the more people that get integrated into the culture, the easier it gets to accept new cultures. In general, people in the developed world are less racist than they were say at the beginning of the 20th century.

i think what the TS wants to say is people being less racist is an evolution. which is true i'd say. where as in the past people were more sensitive to differences between themselves and other people, they are less so now in the western world.

 

[MicroBrew]

no the definition of racism includes ethnicity.

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnicorigin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

^ UN definition of racial discrimination.

And it's wrong. UN definition is based on activism and political considerations. Just like how the US census classification is not based on science, it is political. For example, the US census puts "Hispanic" as a distinct category separate from White and Black, but Hispanic is not a race and it was only invented in the 70s. UN's definition is not based on science. Defining race is problematic but generally it is acknowledged to indicate very clear biological differences. In Anthro , traditionally there has only been 5 races , which are: Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongoloid, Capoid and Australoid.

Ethnicites aren't races because ethnicities are cultural inventions, while race is biological. If Ethnicites and all the categories in the UN lists were considered 'races' ,then races can be invented. Lots of groups love to appropriate the "racist" label to use against critics because of how well known and powerful the term "racism" is, in our culture. By the UN's definition, Mormons can claim to be victims of racial prejudice from mainstream Christians, but that would be nonsense because Mormons are White like the vast majority of mainstream Christians.

 

[Harmonica]

TS is a drug addict that thinks Europeans united to conquer the world haha. Europeans hated each other so much that they murdered each other non stop for thousands of years at a rate unseen between any other proximal ethnic groups.

War is the father of all things.

 

[tramendous]

And it's wrong. UN definition is based on activism and political considerations. Just like how the US census classification is not based on science, it is political. For example, the US census puts "Hispanic" as a distinct category separate from White and Black, but Hispanic is not a race and it was only invented in the 70s. UN's definition is not based on science. Defining race is problematic but generally it is acknowledged to indicate very clear biological differences. In Anthro , traditionally there has only been 5 races , which are: Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongoloid, Capoid and Australoid.

Ethnicites aren't races because ethnicities are cultural inventions, while race is biological. If Ethnicites and all the categories in the UN lists were considered 'races' ,then races can be invented. Lots of groups love to appropriate the "racist" label to use against critics because of how well known and powerful the term "racism" is, in our culture. By the UN's definition, Mormons can claim to be victims of racial prejudice from mainstream Christians, but that would be nonsense because Mormons are White like the vast majority of mainstream Christians.

Lol so if an American hates all Mexicans but other south americans are ok. Hes not a racist. Fucking UN man.

 

[Bacco]

The next step in the evolution to unite Humanity, once and for all.....Specism?

Once aliens show up, suddenly we won't look that different from eachother and we will unfortunately create hate against em.

Will pick aliens over gypsies tbh

 

[superpunch]

No, I think it's important to distinguish between the 2 types of racism:

1) The overt, evil shit that led to slavery and Jim Crow.
2) Being more wary and alert around a black male than an Asian male because he's 20-30 times more likely (or over 100 times more likely than an Asian female) to murder you, rob you, etc.

The first probably is probably, as you say, an evolution of ethnic group hate.

The second is the part of the brain that recognizes patterns and uses them to protect you. Like you see a tiger eat your parents, so you learn to be more wary around tigers than other kinds of cats like house cats.

Conflating the 2 as just as the same and equally morally evil and bad is what's causing so much confusion among race relations right now. It's also what's causing fewer and fewer people to take the race card seriously anymore.

 

[Seano]

Racism is essential to the democrat and republican bases and attracts millions of gullable voters. These days, it's far more useful than it is harmful.

I agree with all of that except for those last 8 words. Its incredibly harmful to our society and is responsible for the worst race relations I've seen in my 41 years on this earth.

 

[splendica]

 

[Ice That Jaw]

I agree with all of that except for those last 8 words. Its incredibly harmful to our society and is responsible for the worst race relations I've seen in my 41 years on this earth.

When you look at actual crime stats without colored lenses, you will see that racism driven crimes are not a national emergency, not even close.

But when you look at how useful racism is for firing up voting bases, oh, it's definitely more useful.

If you stop reading all these hand picked race baiting articles, you will have a better outlook.

 

[Gunny]

I was high the other day and got this idea.


If you see Africa, eastern europe, etc...You will see that people hate each other because of ethnicity.....I don't get it. The people to an outsider look the same but they can see the differences and there is hardcore hate for eachother.



This explains it well.


So knowing this, I feel, it was the same in ancient times...people just hated anybody who was somewhat different....which led to conflict


Ethnic group hate is actually worse than racism.


Racism in a way unites people...a large group of people....so take for example Europe, before they probably hated eachother, but once they saw that they were different from the rest of the world....they united, in a sort of weird way...obviously conflicts still exist in this society but it's not like ethnic group hate.


Now Ethnic group hate on the other hand, is represented well by Africa.........and you can see, it leads to way more problems...because you dividing a shitload of people based on ethnicity....when they can work together and improve their society.

Ethnic Group hate, just leads to way more conflicts....If you can be at peace with your neighbor, how can you improve...Again just look at history with europe etc.


So in a way...Racism, is an actual progressive idea compared to ethnic group hate...and is the evolution of uniting humanity.


The next step in the evolution to unite Humanity, once and for all.....Specism?

Once aliens show up, suddenly we won't look that different from eachother and we will unfortunately create hate against em.

I think the answer your your main question is yes, but I’ve read it explained in different terms. Can’t recall the source but it was well reasoned that ideological racism grew out of enlightenment philosophy. In that period, simple hatred of the-other (or ethnic hatred as you put it) became seen as primitive and beneath the intellect of enlightenment reformers. Nevertheless, they still retained that hatred, in spite of their better ideals, and so a pseudoscientific explinations and racial ideologies had to be formulated to justify the continued animosity

Edit: I remembered that the source was Bernard Lewis