Is MMA Wrestling just about takedowns and clinch?

[SocialJusticeFighter]

Been watching wrestling videos trying to figure out what wrestling is still and how it differs from Jiu Jitsu.

Is Wrestling just about takedowns? From what I understand, despite being considered "ground game" wrestling mainly happens on the feet?

talking about mma wrestling

 

[Ez Eric]

- Being able to control someone on the ground. The ability to break them down or flatten them out when they attempt to stand up or escape in some way.

- Top game. The technique, pressure and balance to not get swept and maintain top position.

- Escapes/reversals/sweeps

- conditioning

- takedowns

- clinch

Those are some of the benefits and uses of wrestling in MMA.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

- Being able to control someone on the ground. The ability to break them down or flatten them out when they attempt to stand up or escape in some way.

- Top game. The technique, pressure and balance to not get swept and maintain top position.

- Escapes/reversals/sweeps

- conditioning

- takedowns

- clinch

Those are some of the benefits and uses of wrestling in MMA.

This is a good sum up.

Basically:
1. Clinch/Shots (On the feet)
2a. Ability to scramble for top position (ground)
2b. Hold someone down (ground)


BJJ will translate to holding someone down and will add back taking + submission ability, but ultimately its lacking the ability to scramble to top and all on the feet stuff.


This is how I see it

 

[jr jr]

I don't know what "wrestling" you have been watching. There are three main stiles you see. The USA practices folkstyle that includes a lot of escapes from the ground and control from the top. Internationally you see Freestyle and Greco. Both of these emphasis the take down and big throws to score points. Greco does so without attacking the legs.

No pulling guard in any major wrestling style. You must be proficient from the feet. In all wrestling styles exposing the back is bad. BJJ gives no shits about exposing the back and you do not have to be proficient on the feet to be a high level player. Because escapes are not awarded points in BJJ there is no need to learn the same control from the top nor are you encouraged to escape from the bottom. There is control from the top but it emphasizes preventing the sweep (reversal of top to bottom)

 

[Uchi Mata]

Mat wrestling, mostly the kind you find in American folkstyle, is extremely useful in MMA and is used all the time. In fact, I'd say the basis of both G&P and S&B on the mat are wrestling, not BJJ. The ability to ride people and keep them down, as well as the complementary ability to stand back up when someone is trying to keep you down are mostly drawn from folkstyle. Any time you see someone in top turtle with his opponent's wrist locked up throwing punches, maybe lacing a leg to keep him from standing up, that's pretty much right out of wrestling. A lot of the scrambles you see involve lots of mat wrestling as well, pure BJJ guys generally aren't that good at things like sit outs, switches, funking, etc. Those all come from wrestling.

 

[Daniel Fox]

Another important aspect is defense of the take down (sprawl and brawl), in my opinion one of the best MMA Wrestlers was Chuck Liddell, he would use his wrestling ability to keep the fight from going to the ground, and he would then go for a knock out.

 

[SummerStriker]

Wrestling is one of the martial arts where the benefit isn't the petty techniques. It is the character and physique people get from doing it.

 

[Coconutwater]

Mat wrestling, mostly the kind you find in American folkstyle, is extremely useful in MMA and is used all the time. In fact, I'd say the basis of both G&P and S&B on the mat are wrestling, not BJJ. The ability to ride people and keep them down, as well as the complementary ability to stand back up when someone is trying to keep you down are mostly drawn from folkstyle. Any time you see someone in top turtle with his opponent's wrist locked up throwing punches, maybe lacing a leg to keep him from standing up, that's pretty much right out of wrestling. A lot of the scrambles you see involve lots of mat wrestling as well, pure BJJ guys generally aren't that good at things like sit outs, switches, funking, etc. Those all come from wrestling.

Couldn't have said it better.

To me, besides the obvious benefits of both TDD, Takedowns and Clinches/Throws, wrestling really shows its beauty in its amazing base both standing and on the ground in addition to any form of scrambling. In a scramble on the ground, wrestlers are solid. As a former wrestler, sit-outs, switches, stand-ups, crossface/ankle, two-on-one, all are second nature and easy in their mechanics.

 

[SummerStriker]

^and sit outs aren't easy. I've drilled them forever and hardly ever done one.

 

[Uchi Mata]

^and sit outs aren't easy. I've drilled them forever and hardly ever done one.

They take some time. Though I did almost KO a guy once because he was pushing into me so hard that when I sat out he face planted solidly enough to stop the roll.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

There should not be MMA wrestling, just MMA. No need to break it up. And if you are going to break up, needs to be more specific than wrestling, muay thai, and BJJ. It should be technique specific.

 

[SummerStriker]

They take some time. Though I did almost KO a guy once because he was pushing into me so hard that when I sat out he face planted solidly enough to stop the roll.

That's pretty funny.

 

[SummerStriker]

There should not be MMA wrestling, just MMA. No need to break it up. And if you are going to break up, needs to be more specific than wrestling, muay thai, and BJJ. It should be technique specific.

You can't get good that way. The different martial arts are basically drilling systems for the skills you need to fight anyone. BJJ is a set of drills for freestyle fighting. So is wrestling. So is boxing.

I have done a metric ton of MMA sparring against guys with wrestling backgrounds and it did nothing for my ability to stop a take down compared to a little wrestling specific training.

You can sort of skip over some things that aren't useful in MMA. For example, spider guard is largely useless in MMA. Unfortunately, to get good at MMA you should roll a lot, and if you roll a lot, you'll get tooled by spider guard, so you have to learn spider guard passes, but to drill them credibly, you have to learn spider guard for your training partners.

 

[Uchi Mata]

You can't get good that way. The different martial arts are basically drilling systems for the skills you need to fight anyone. BJJ is a set of drills for freestyle fighting. So is wrestling. So is boxing.

I have done a metric ton of MMA sparring against guys with wrestling backgrounds and it did nothing for my ability to stop a take down compared to a little wrestling specific training.

You can sort of skip over some things that aren't useful in MMA. For example, spider guard is largely useless in MMA. Unfortunately, to get good at MMA you should roll a lot, and if you roll a lot, you'll get tooled by spider guard, so you have to learn spider guard passes, but to drill them credibly, you have to learn spider guard for your training partners.

You can drill outside of sparring, even in MMA. The problem as you pointed out is that finding good instruction and training partners outside of any of the pure component disciplines is really hard. That is, it's hard to find people who are good enough at wrestling outside of wrestling clubs to get your wrestling to a high level, even if much of what you learn you'll never need in MMA.

 

[SummerStriker]

You can drill outside of sparring, even in MMA. The problem as you pointed out is that finding good instruction and training partners outside of any of the pure component disciplines is really hard. That is, it's hard to find people who are good enough at wrestling outside of wrestling clubs to get your wrestling to a high level, even if much of what you learn you'll never need in MMA.

I get what you're saying, but let me elaborate.

I rarely, rarely get RNC'd. If I give a strong BJJ guy my back, I can almost always get out of it. I got interested in it because I'd been RNC'd doing freestyle.

So to learn the escape, I studied the main escapes, drilled just them, then did a bunch of positional rolling and free rolling, putting myself in back mount, until I started getting away. I think I have very good back escapes.

While practicing those, I've been put in all kinds of shit rolling. Twisters and crucifix and back mounted arm bars and been put in turtle then guillotined. I like rolling, but I don't like losing, so I had to learn about a lot of other shit.

Even if i drilled the escape and waited until sparring in MMA to try it live, how long would I have waited? I probably have to do 30+ rounds of MMA to get my back taken once.

 

[jack36767]

Wrestling is one of the martial arts where the benefit isn't the petty techniques. It is the character and physique people get from doing it.

No, it's the techniques too

 

[Uchi Mata]

Wrestling is one of the martial arts where the benefit isn't the petty techniques. It is the character and physique people get from doing it.

Really wish people would stop thinking this. Wrestling is no less technical than BJJ or Judo. A good wrestler won't beat you because he's in better shape, he'll beat you because he's better at wrestling. Hell, some of the best wrestlers ever weren't physical freaks (Buvaisar Saitiev comes to mind). And besides, the whole 'toughest, most conditioned athletes ever' thing is partially an Americanism due to the way wrestling training is approached here. Not that wrestlers from other countries aren't in great shape, but that notion of using your conditioning and physicality to break people and training accordingly is especially prevalent in the US. When you watch footage of Russian national team training sessions for instance, they're not nearly as grueling as what you'll see US collegiate teams like Iowa doing. But they are a very, very technical!

 

[SummerStriker]

I'm not saying the techniques aren't good. But if you took the techniques out and put them in BJJ, you still wouldn't have the same results just from learning them. I've trained in a BJJ gym where they also had a wrestling class and they taught many wrestling moves in the no gi.

The culture of the sport in the US seems to make a huge difference in people.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

You can't get good that way. The different martial arts are basically drilling systems for the skills you need to fight anyone. BJJ is a set of drills for freestyle fighting. So is wrestling. So is boxing.

I have done a metric ton of MMA sparring against guys with wrestling backgrounds and it did nothing for my ability to stop a take down compared to a little wrestling specific training.

You can sort of skip over some things that aren't useful in MMA. For example, spider guard is largely useless in MMA. Unfortunately, to get good at MMA you should roll a lot, and if you roll a lot, you'll get tooled by spider guard, so you have to learn spider guard passes, but to drill them credibly, you have to learn spider guard for your training partners.

Do you train any defensive techniques for takedowns? That does not equate to training "wrestling" as in freestyle or greco.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

I get what you're saying, but let me elaborate.

I rarely, rarely get RNC'd. If I give a strong BJJ guy my back, I can almost always get out of it. I got interested in it because I'd been RNC'd doing freestyle.

So to learn the escape, I studied the main escapes, drilled just them, then did a bunch of positional rolling and free rolling, putting myself in back mount, until I started getting away. I think I have very good back escapes.

While practicing those, I've been put in all kinds of shit rolling. Twisters and crucifix and back mounted arm bars and been put in turtle then guillotined. I like rolling, but I don't like losing, so I had to learn about a lot of other shit.

Even if i drilled the escape and waited until sparring in MMA to try it live, how long would I have waited? I probably have to do 30+ rounds of MMA to get my back taken once.

And none of that means you are doing BJJ. You are just training specific technique, and situations.