In retrospect PRIDE/JMMA as a whole is very overrated

Pro-wrestling root, spectacle, and especially nostalgia can be a very powerful combination.

Just because MMA is more evolved now doesn’t mean the golden era is forgotten.
 
PRIDE was the gold standard.

Absolute units all over.
 
They're 2 distinctly different promotional styles based on the cultures they are marketing to. The Japanese love bushido, courage, honor. Americans love winners. It's just that simple. Don't mention "revisionist history" and then try to re-evaluate Pride 10 years on from it's dissolution.
 
LMAO, no. When Pride was around they were the best MMA organization, UFC was the second best. Pride had a better HW division at better 205 division a better 185 division and had a better LW division. The only division the UFC had that was better than Prides was 170 and Pride didn't have a 170 division. If you think Pride was second best when they were around then you are the one telling revisionist history.
 
Threetrees said:
No.
I'm not.

Make an actual argument as to why as a whole PRIDE was better outside of the spectacle.

Japanophiles always act like it's some absurdity to suggest that the UFC might have been the better organization during PRIDEs hayday
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You're the one saying the thing that goes against the popular opinion held by those that actually watched MMA in the early to late 2000s, it's on you to prove that the UFC was better than PRIDE which is pretty hard considering every division Pride had was better. They had better HWs they had better 205ers, they had better 185ers and they had the better LW division. The only better division the UFC had was one that PRIDE didn't even have.
 
ill just leave this here

dm9q2d.jpg
 
HHJ said:
in 2006 Mirko didnt get a title shot AT ALL.
He got some runners up tourney prize,when everyone knows Fedor beat him,Fedor had the real title. Mirko won by being given the most favrorable brackets in the tourney which is also controlled by pride.Also how many champions fought non title matches? Pride's titles were almost never defended because thats how Pride controlled things to keep their money makers with the belts. They gave title shots to whoever the fuck they felt like giving it to.They gave Ogawa the easiest guys to beat,so he could be in the finals. Thats a Conor move if i ever saw one. The corrupt refs made Herb Dean look like a saint.They gave mirko a title shot against Fedor for beating kevin randleman and Mark Coleman,not sergei,not nogueira,so how can mirko say hes the best when he didnt fight the best to get a shot? nogueira already beat him before. Another Conor move. Even the build up video was overwhelmingly pro mirko leading into the Fedor fight. So tell me how its only about merit,and not bias and money,please?
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Fa
HHJ said:
in 2006 Mirko didnt get a title shot AT ALL.
He got some runners up tourney prize,when everyone knows Fedor beat him,Fedor had the real title. Mirko won by being given the most favrorable brackets in the tourney which is also controlled by pride.Also how many champions fought non title matches? Pride's titles were almost never defended because thats how Pride controlled things to keep their money makers with the belts. They gave title shots to whoever the fuck they felt like giving it to.They gave Ogawa the easiest guys to beat,so he could be in the finals. Thats a Conor move if i ever saw one. The corrupt refs made Herb Dean look like a saint.They gave mirko a title shot against Fedor for beating kevin randleman and Mark Coleman,not sergei,not nogueira,so how can mirko say hes the best when he didnt fight the best to get a shot? nogueira already beat him before. Another Conor move. Even the build up video was overwhelmingly pro mirko leading into the Fedor fight. So tell me how its only about merit,and not bias and money,please?
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Fedor suffered a hand injury and couldn't participate in the tournament. He was replaced by Wanderlei Silva.
Had Fedor fought, mirko would've fought him instead of wanderlei.
You're saying Pride gave mirko this tourney win?
Crocop beat prime wanderlei who came in heavier than mirko, and Josh Barnett in the same fuckin night.
You people
 
Typical murican who thinks that usa is the center of the world. This aint 1990 anymore buddeh.. many countries got you beat in different fields.
 


This music hits still gets me hyped.

Pride was epic. Don't think we will ever surpass those tournaments. Sakuraba fights Royce Gracie for almost 2 hours. Then comes out to fight Igor Vovchanchyn on the same night. Stuff of legends right there.
 
DayV said:
Mirko definitely had a right to another shot v Fedor in 2006. It is a big case of bad luck for his career thar Pride went under and he never got it.

In 2005 Nogueira was inactive for a year while Cro Cop was on winning streak of beating contenders.

Also Grand Prix title as such is in Pride of equal value as divisional title. They both represent the best fighter in the world at the certain time. Divisional champion enters GP equally with all other participants. Grand prix title is also older.
It was not some "runners up tourney", it was more like Fedor missed the Olympics, and somebody else won the gold.

Cro Cop also didn`t have most favourable brackets, he bet top 15, top 10 and top 5 ranked HWs at the time of fights.

Fedor beat him in 2005 with his best performance, while Mirko had a lot of space to improve, key moment of the fight was Mirko slipping on canvas during high kick while Fedor was rubbing blood from his nose. Cro Cop had legit chance to return the favour and beat Fedor in a potential rematch, so it was really missfortunate for Cro Cop that Pride colapsed and he never got his chance for rematch, that he earned.
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linch said:
Fa

Fedor suffered a hand injury and couldn't participate in the tournament. He was replaced by Wanderlei Silva.
Had Fedor fought, mirko would've fought him instead of wanderlei.
You're saying Pride gave mirko this tourney win?
Crocop beat prime wanderlei who came in heavier than mirko, and Josh Barnett in the same fuckin night.
You people
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so fucking what?
If mirko is as great as everyone says he should no problem putting away a pumped up slow lhw and an exhausted battered up Barnett. Yeah pride is always wanting mirko to be the top dog or appear to be the top dog cos he draws more money. That's why they let him fight a mw in the opening round and yoshida in the 2md round a guy who has rudimentary striking at best. That's why they avoided matching him with kharitonov or nog again. Instead in 05 crocop had to beat Coleman randleman and magomed whatever, a guy who had never even been in pride before that. When they put him in there with a real g like hunt,hunt won. Fedor in all of his glorious might put hint away in the first. Trounced nog every time they met. Pride knows they can give fedor the toughest guys in the tourney and he will win. Mirko they gotta give easiest road cos they know he might bollocks it up like in the 2004 tourney. At least in the owgp can finger poke his way to the top
 
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HHJ said:
so fucking what?
If mirko is as great as everyone says he should no problem putting away a pumped up slow lhw and an exhausted battered up Barnett. Yeah pride is always wanting mirko to be the top dog or appear to be the top dog cos he draws more money. That's why they let him fight a mw in the opening round and yoshida in the 2md round a guy who has rudimentary striking at best. That's why they avoided matching him with kharitonov or nog again. Instead in 05 crocop had to beat Coleman randleman and magomed whatever, a guy who had never even been in pride before that. When they put him in there with a real g like hunt,hunt won. Fedor in all of his glorious might put hint away in the first. Trounced nog every time they met. Pride knows they can give fedor the toughest guys in the tourney and he will win. Mirko they gotta give easiest road cos they know he might bollocks it up like in the 2004 tourney. At least in the owgp can finger poke his way to the top
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Cro Cop was really good but people either forgot or they just don't realize that he was likely declining after he injured his ankle on Mark Hunt's head and reinjured it against Wanderlei. He looked great in the OWGP not because he was still in his prime but because he fought a MW, a Judoka, Wanderlei that was much slower than he was in the first fight due to too much muscle(he put it on cause he thought he would have to fight Big Nog or Barnett) and Barnett who Cro Cop beat twice already.

He was still really good and close to his prime in the OWGP but he was on the decline, it was harder to tell cause he faced favorable style match ups.
 
justbetter said:
Just you wait till that whole generation of Japanese kids growing up watching Pride get inspired to train MMA and become world beaters. Expect the top 20 of all divisions to be stacked with Japanese fighters like in Pride days... sometime within the next 10 years.
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They aren’t having kids...
 
DaGenius said:
I mean didn’t your boy Sakuraba have some fixed fights that went his way because the yakuza said so??

Pride was fun for sure and I’m happy that I was old enough to watch it but as far the sporting aspects of it..UFC today is better than pride ever was
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I think your referring to Takada not sakuraba.Takada had a few fixed fights in the early PRIDE.Sakuraba was a warrior for sure.

Zuffa era UFC had ties to the Mafia the fertitta Bros are tied to the mafia to think they ran things differently is quite laughable.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
Cro Cop was really good but people either forgot or they just don't realize that he was likely declining after he injured his ankle on Mark Hunt's head and reinjured it against Wanderlei. He looked great in the OWGP not because he was still in his prime but because he fought a MW, a Judoka, Wanderlei that was much slower than he was in the first fight due to too much muscle(he put it on cause he thought he would have to fight Big Nog or Barnett) and Barnett who Cro Cop beat twice already.

He was still really good and close to his prime in the OWGP but he was on the decline, it was harder to tell cause he faced favorable style match ups.
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100 pct agreement
 
HHJ said:
so fucking what?
If mirko is as great as everyone says he should no problem putting away a pumped up slow lhw and an exhausted battered up Barnett. Yeah pride is always wanting mirko to be the top dog or appear to be the top dog cos he draws more money. That's why they let him fight a mw in the opening round and yoshida in the 2md round a guy who has rudimentary striking at best. That's why they avoided matching him with kharitonov or nog again. Instead in 05 crocop had to beat Coleman randleman and magomed whatever, a guy who had never even been in pride before that. When they put him in there with a real g like hunt,hunt won.
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Since Minowa was able to beat Don Frye, Gilbert Yvel, Kimo Leopoldo, Sokodju, Sapp, Leko, Errol Zimmerman, Choi, Giant Silva, he was certany dangerous enough for Mirko or anyone. He has scapls to prove it.
Sapienti sat

Yoshida was more dangerous on the ground than today's fighters in context of PRIDE rules, 10 minute round, no elbows, no walls to stand up or restrict his ground game, and usage of Gi for wich he was master. You can't slipp out of submissions and chokes, and Gi gave him variuos weapons wich he was expert to use.
Pride wanted Yoshida to win, not Cro Cop. Yoshida was the most popular Japanese HW fighter and biggest home star. Main event of the evening was because of him. PRIDE wanted that home star throw and subbmit stand up fighter. You can clearly hear and see how much crowd supported Yoshida.

Wanderlei was not slow, you can't prove that. Wand was the most fearsome fighter of that time, and their matchup was voted by fans because of the bad blood from their first fight. Wand was ranked in Top 10 HW at that time and had HW fights before against Fujita, Gilbert Yvel, Bob Schrijber and Hunt (bad decision, Wand won).

If Barnett was exhausted that's his problem. He certanly didin't look that way, he looked OK. It's a tournament, multiple fights, same for everyone, and how you do it is up to you.
Cro Cop entered final bout with injured foot and on painkillers and faced opponent who had potential to deliver enormeous damage.


HHJ said:
and magomed whatever, a guy who had never even been in pride before that
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Ye, # 11 HW ranked guy.

MMA Collective - MMARanks.com
February 28, 2005

1. Fedor Emelianenko
2. Rodrigo Nogueira
3. Mirko Filipovic
4. Andrei Arlovski
5. Sergei Kharitonov
6. Frank Mir
7. Josh Barnett
8. Heath Herring
9. Alexander Emelianenko
10. Pedro Rizzo
11. Ibragim Magomedov
12. Paul Buentello

https://web.archive.org/web/20050403110432/http://www.mmaranks.com:80/hw
 
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