How good do you think ancient greek olympic wrestlers were?

Artwork back then was highly subjective though and full of hidden meanings... often times art was done to show the best versions of someone and not what they actually looked like...so the nudity could just be a way of showing masculine dominance... but it could also mean they were naked haha....in which case WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK...i

lol that's a good point. Lemme google...

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_wrestling

https://www.suu.edu/blog/2016/08/naked-athletes-olympic-history.html

Yep. They fought naked as a tribute to the gods.
 
Ohh boy....


That's why gladiators we're better LOL

Jean-Leon_Gerome_Pollice_Verso.jpg


I've always thought this helmet and metal sleeve looked absolutely killer.
 
Lacking access to modern appliances such as PEDs, strenght training, diet and conditioning, all the scientific stuff, would surely hinder them.

And regarding training, do not overestimate the accumulated knowlage of premodern societies.

Look at sumo training for instance. A sport that had progressed for centuries as a unbroken tradition. Undoubtedly effective. Yet influences of Western strenght-training still made a big impact when introduced. Callisthenics/bodyweight focus only took people so far.

I wouldn't discount the strength of the ancients. I came across a video on the subject of Roman soldiers and the cadavers revealed that their tendons were 2 to 3 times thicker than people of today. Understandably, that was the soldiers and not wrestlers, but if the soldiers are built like that, chances are the wrestlers aren't too far behind.
 
I wouldn't discount the strength of the ancients. I came across a video on the subject of Roman soldiers and the cadavers revealed that their tendons were 2 to 3 times thicker than people of today. Understandably, that was the soldiers and not wrestlers, but if the soldiers are built like that, chances are the wrestlers aren't too far behind.

I agree. .

People back then simply did more and moved more then people now...thats gunna change your physical body ..

We are pampered lazy weaklings when thinking about men of those times... pretty much almost all adult men then saw someone die or be killed ..now and days people rarely see this take place to the point its shocking ... meanwhile back then life and death could be a daily thing... Thats another aspect of this too...the mental side...a wrestler from back then would be much more mentally focused and stronger then anyone here...they had 100%life dedication to it because it was there life... now and days people just say that shit till the sponsor money comes in or the movie deal ETC
 
I agree. .

People back then simply did more and moved more then people now...thats gunna change your physical body ..

We are pampered lazy weaklings when thinking about men of those times... pretty much almost all adult men then saw someone die or be killed ..now and days people rarely see this take place to the point its shocking ... meanwhile back then life and death could be a daily thing... Thats another aspect of this too...the mental side...a wrestler from back then would be much more mentally focused and stronger then anyone here...they had 100%life dedication to it because it was there life... now and days people just say that shit till the sponsor money comes in or the movie deal ETC
if our ancestors were alive they'd be even more pissed off than us
 
I wouldn't discount the strength of the ancients. I came across a video on the subject of Roman soldiers and the cadavers revealed that their tendons were 2 to 3 times thicker than people of today

We're not talking about populations though.

We're comparing sportsmen to sportsmen.

Different sample size.

A modern-day Olympic wrestler is going to have grown up doing as much physical labor as an ancient person. Probably even more/better since the modern proffessional schooling systems allows athleats to dedicate more/better time to training and recovery and such. Someone like Milon of Croton was still a citizen of a polis and would have to perform all the duties associated with such a position. These weren't proffessionals in the modern sense.

Thats another aspect of this too...the mental side...a wrestler from back then would be much more mentally focused and stronger then anyone here...they had 100%life dedication to it because it was there life...

I don't really think that notion holds because...

1: We have texts from these eras. We know that people were complaining about other people being lazy and weaklings and such. Far from everyone was a 100% dedicated terminator. This whole "death and grimeness leaves me super motivated" just don't match historical records on any wide scale.

2: Look at someone like Kyle Snyder or Sadulaev or Saitiev. Do you think these people aren't 100% dedicated? When you get to that level of athletics, people are 100% dedicated. Otherwise they would never have made it that far.
 
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I agree. .

People back then simply did more and moved more then people now...thats gunna change your physical body ..

We are pampered lazy weaklings when thinking about men of those times... pretty much almost all adult men then saw someone die or be killed ..now and days people rarely see this take place to the point its shocking ... meanwhile back then life and death could be a daily thing... Thats another aspect of this too...the mental side...a wrestler from back then would be much more mentally focused and stronger then anyone here...they had 100%life dedication to it because it was there life... now and days people just say that shit till the sponsor money comes in or the movie deal ETC

A lot of romanticism (get it?) in this post.

Not all adult men saw people get killed unless you mean a gladiator battle where that would occasionally happen. That hardly makes you tough.

There are people who dedicate their entire lives to their crafts still and they have the benefit of doing it in a more methodical and tested way than a Roman person would.


The hyper strong Roman man who does good by Zeus and works hard on the farm was largely propaganda - no different than political movements today that use tradition and idealism as selling points.

Romans were among the most pampered people of their time. The whole "work hard with your hands and be a good Roman" was just a way to appeal to plebeians just like it is today.



There are still isolated, rural, traditional and even uncontacted societies. There is nothing super human about them. Amish people aren't ripping off anyone's heads.
 
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A lot of romanticism (get it?) in this post.

Not all adult men saw people get killed unless you mean a gladiator battle where that would occasionally happen. That hardly makes you tough.

There are people who dedicate their entire lives to their crafts still and they have the benefit of doing it in a more methodical and tested way than a Roman person would.


The hyper strong Roman man who does good by Zeus and works hard on the farm was largely propaganda - no different than political movements today that use tradition and idealism as selling points.

Romans were among the most pampered people of their time. The whole "work hard with your hands and be a good Roman" was just a way to appeal to plebeians just like it is today.



There are still isolated, rural, traditional and even uncontacted societies. There is nothing super human about them.


Considering Zeus was a greek god and not a roman god ... and neither are true and only God ...i find suspect levels of truth to your statements...

Also life in general back then just required more effort and movement then today thats just simple facts...if you wanted to go somewhere you walked ..often for days .. whens the last time someone's walked days to see a relative? ...if you wanted food .you grew it..and traded it for other foods ..

Soldiers were hardened people and many also partook in the other combat sports...alot of gladiators were captured warriors of defeated tribes...many of which had there own martial prowess..thus the gladiatorial games and combat sport matches ..Romans where entertained by the idea of style vs style...and many wrestling styles and fighting styles existed even then and would of likely been at a higher level simply because thats how fighting was done in wars back then ..now and days we focus of aiming and explosives...back then hand to hand was how you fought and won the war...no doubt there hand to hand combat level was higher then ours now and days ..think of it this way...

a punch has always been a punch .. who's gunna be better at that a society where punching is unacceptable for the most part and its done more for sport and wealth then any other place in society ...or a society were fighting is a way to get ahead in society and military life is a honorable and respected line of work where u can eventually become ruler of of the known world if your the best/great at it? ..

I think its obvious who the better hand to hand fighters/wrestlers would have been
 
I'm a history professor among many other things and while conducting thorough research into the matter I came to the following conclusion:

They could, under the right circumstances, beat Ronda Rousey.
 
A lot of romanticism (get it?) in this post.

Not all adult men saw people get killed unless you mean a gladiator battle where that would occasionally happen. That hardly makes you tough.

There are people who dedicate their entire lives to their crafts still and they have the benefit of doing it in a more methodical and tested way than a Roman person would.


The hyper strong Roman man who does good by Zeus and works hard on the farm was largely propaganda - no different than political movements today that use tradition and idealism as selling points.

Romans were among the most pampered people of their time. The whole "work hard with your hands and be a good Roman" was just a way to appeal to plebeians just like it is today.



There are still isolated, rural, traditional and even uncontacted societies. There is nothing super human about them. Amish people aren't ripping off anyone's heads.

Yeah, that's a solid point. There's undisturbed tribes of people in the Americas, Africa, Australasia and whatnot...Their tendons, muscle fibers and bones aren't some absurdity that makes Alexander Karelin quiver. I don't suspect that the Romans were that much more special. There are people today who if you compared to some normal unathletic 5'10 150lb skinny fat guy would sound inhuman too, plenty of'em.
 
Considering Zeus was a greek god and not a roman god ... and neither are true and only God ...i find suspect levels of truth to your statements...

Also life in general back then just required more effort and movement then today thats just simple facts...if you wanted to go somewhere you walked ..often for days .. whens the last time someone's walked days to see a relative? ...if you wanted food .you grew it..and traded it for other foods ..

Soldiers were hardened people and many also partook in the other combat sports...alot of gladiators were captured warriors of defeated tribes...many of which had there own martial prowess..thus the gladiatorial games and combat sport matches ..Romans where entertained by the idea of style vs style...and many wrestling styles and fighting styles existed even then and would of likely been at a higher level simply because thats how fighting was done in wars back then ..now and days we focus of aiming and explosives...back then hand to hand was how you fought and won the war...no doubt there hand to hand combat level was higher then ours now and days ..think of it this way...

a punch has always been a punch .. who's gunna be better at that a society where punching is unacceptable for the most part and its done more for sport and wealth then any other place in society ...or a society were fighting is a way to get ahead in society and military life is a honorable and respected line of work where u can eventually become ruler of of the known world if your the best/great at it? ..

I think its obvious who the better hand to hand fighters/wrestlers would have been

wow
you really need to get real
 
wow
you really need to get real


Im not sure where im mistaken...

Back then there was a fighting class or warrior class ...people who's life was about combat ..they were viewed and treated differently then regulars...( Do you think there was an off season for a gladiator? )

Now and days people do it for athletics and they choose it and can stop it whenever... while holding other jobs ..back then if you were a wrestler or fighter or soldier that's what you did everyday ..

Its a major difference which would undoubtedly make for better fighters/warriors...

Its not rocket science they lived a harder existence then use therefore they would be tougher people in general
 
Im not sure where im mistaken...

Back then there was a fighting class or warrior class ...people who's life was about combat ..they were viewed and treated differently then regulars...( Do you think there was an off season for a gladiator? )

Now and days people do it for athletics and they choose it and can stop it whenever... while holding other jobs ..back then if you were a wrestler or fighter or soldier that's what you did everyday ..

Its a major difference which would undoubtedly make for better fighters/warriors...

Its not rocket science they lived a harder existence then use therefore they would be tougher people in general

It's delusional at so many levels.

Olympics wrestlers today are dedicated to their craft as much as you can get but with much better nutrition, rest and training methods.

To put it simple, wrestlers - or any other combat - has much superior knowledge and athleticism (a guy as Alexander the Great, at around 5'4", wasn't even that much below the average adult male).

Your theory is basically a naive fantasy.

Said that, how the fuck did the Egyptians build the pyramids with the technology that existed back then? Now that's a mystery
 
It's delusional at so many levels.

Olympics wrestlers today are dedicated to their craft as much as you can get but with much better nutrition, rest and training methods.

To put it simple, wrestlers - or any other combat - has much superior knowledge and athleticism (a guy as Alexander the Great, at around 5'4", wasn't even that much below the average adult male).

Your theory is basically a naive fantasy.

Said that, how the fuck did the Egyptians build the pyramids with the technology that existed back then? Now that's a mystery


Any sources to this information your speaking on in terms of nutrition and heights of people? Ever heard of Keto .. thats basically how ancients could or would of eaten and is viewed as super healthy now and days ..

How can we have more hand to hand combat knowledge then an age where hand to hand combat was the primary fighting system...all of everything we know came from the Civilizations before us meaning there the one who's created it? ...its much easier follow a martial art system then it is to develop it or create one ....Modern wrestlers exist because of the knowledge the past generations figured out and knew that by default means they would have a working knowledge far greater then ours... they could know several since removed moves that would give them an advantage over new wrestler's...think original Judo and the new Olympic rules...in a fight older judo styles may actually be better for u..
 
Considering Zeus was a greek god and not a roman god ... and neither are true and only God ...i find suspect levels of truth to your statements...

Also life in general back then just required more effort and movement then today thats just simple facts...if you wanted to go somewhere you walked ..often for days .. whens the last time someone's walked days to see a relative? ...if you wanted food .you grew it..and traded it for other foods ..

Soldiers were hardened people and many also partook in the other combat sports...alot of gladiators were captured warriors of defeated tribes...many of which had there own martial prowess..thus the gladiatorial games and combat sport matches ..Romans where entertained by the idea of style vs style...and many wrestling styles and fighting styles existed even then and would of likely been at a higher level simply because thats how fighting was done in wars back then ..now and days we focus of aiming and explosives...back then hand to hand was how you fought and won the war...no doubt there hand to hand combat level was higher then ours now and days ..think of it this way...

a punch has always been a punch .. who's gunna be better at that a society where punching is unacceptable for the most part and its done more for sport and wealth then any other place in society ...or a society were fighting is a way to get ahead in society and military life is a honorable and respected line of work where u can eventually become ruler of of the known world if your the best/great at it? ..

I think its obvious who the better hand to hand fighters/wrestlers would have been

T-the Zeus part was obviously in jest and the Romans did believe in Zeus and related pantheons. Jupiter and Zeus are the same exact god regardless if his origin is Greek. This is like saying Americans do not believe in Jesus or the Christian God because they are from Israel.



I think a lot your thought process is on conjecture and probably stuff from movies. Rome was a city, you did not "grow" your own food unless it was your job. You bought it just like anywhere else or if you had a plantation then you used workers and slaves to farm for you. They had currency for a reason.

A blacksmith and a bricker have physical jobs but they do not require progressive overload. The black smith uses roughly the same level of strength necessary to do his job for his entire life - he doesn't go to the gym and think of ways to make himself more stronger. There are huge diminishing returns on just doing the same physical labor. You get better at things by pushing yourself not just by doing the same thing over and over again.

Growing your own food doesn't make you strong and neither does walking "days" to see your family - which people did not do. Most people lived next to their relatives (it's still like that today even when we have access to airplanes and cars...).

Why would someone move days away from their dad - did they land a job at google or something? If you are talking about powerful people (who are NOT gladiators or wrestlers to say the least) then they would not be walking. Do you think senators, consuls and governors are walking from Rome to Spain?

The Romans had roads, boats, carriages and horses - in fact their roads are among the most famous things they are known for. There is a lot of bro science here.


There are plenty of truth to my statements...you could like - read about the Romans and then conclude whether they are before at least making a random guess. I have at least a few lousy undergrad thesis' on the Romans and I'm coincidentally reading a book about Germanicus who is a Roman.

I'm not an expert and reading some Roman stuff is hardly a flex but at least I know I have some knowledge on the topic. It's more nuanced than thinking Roman people have Flinstone like strength because they have to move stuff around with their hands. Not all ancient people had a keto like diet and eating Keto hardly makes you super powerful - my diet is basically keto and I'm not beating up Bo Nikals any time soon.

It doesn't even make sense - why would Romans be stronger than any other people who do not have access to modern technology? There are people today in Papua New Guinea fit this stereotype you're trying to paint and they wouldn't beat up Olympians with their folkstyle wrestling either.

It seems like to me that you just are making a very blanket statement about how things "must have been" before electricity.

You're trying to paint this picture that Romans are all super strong guys because they must have been hunting for food, going day long walks for no particular reason and moving giant boulders around. That isn't how fighting works. That isn't how physiology works. That isn't how their society worked either.
 
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