Opinion How do Squatters bypass Trespassing Laws?

[nhbbear]

And my family has dealt with squatters on two occasions. My grandfather allowed a woman and her kid to rent a portion of his house(it was four separate homes) her dirtbag bf and others soon moved and they never paid a dime in rent. They then moved and “rented” the property to others who paid them rent. I was a cop at the time and even I couldn’t get them out quickly.

When I was a teenager, my family owned a condo in NC beach. One week when we didn’t have anyone renting, a trashbag family was somehow able to get in(we think they started out by renting another condo in the building and climbed the deck and got in that way) and when legitimate renters showed up; they refused to leave. Being that we lived 12 hours away, going to court to battle this was an incredibly difficult situation. I was a teen, and my father was a doctor that had no ability to get physical. If this had happened ten years later(we sold it as soon as we got them out and had to spend thousands to repair it) I would have gone down there, kicked in the door(they changed the locks) and would have seriously fucked them up.

Because of these incidents, I have no sympathy for any violence done towards these shitbag fucks.

Here’s a happy ending

 

[Teppodama]

The fact that squatters have any options whatsoever over another's property really just shows that you don't really have true ownership of said property. At the end of the day you only own what your government says you own and that, can change at any time.

Same regarding one's right to defend one's self from physical harm. Depending on where you live and the government at that time, one's available options can be severely curtailed to the point where the victim can be punished more harshly than the criminal for fighting back and stopping the assault by whatever means necessary.

Really, freedom is mostly an agreed upon illusion for anyone that lives in society and makes even a nominal effort at being law-abiding.

 

[nhbbear]

The fact that squatters have any options whatsoever over another's property really just shows that you don't really have true ownership of said property. At the end of the day you only own what your government says you own and that, can change at any time.

Same regarding one's right to defend one's self from physical harm. Depending on where you live and the government at that time, one's available options can be severely curtailed to the point where the victim can be punished more harshly than the criminal for fighting back and stopping the assault by whatever means necessary.

Really, freedom is mostly an agreed upon illusion for anyone that lives in society and makes even a nominal effort at being law-abiding.

I am in favor of violence against squatters. Short of execution, I am pretty open to all ideas

 

[jx820]

Peak societal decay. Whoever passed these laws sounds have their property taken by a bunch of scamming dirt bags

Your going to have to back to Medieval England to tackle the earliest case law establishing squatter's rights.

 

[jx820]

I'm actually concerned that the anti-squatter laws are a thin guise to make evictions easier overall so landlords can break leases and kick out poor people for wealthier tennants. I suspect that's what this is acually about.

 

[nhbbear]

Trespassing is a criminal offense. Squatting is a civil matter. All a squatter has to do is make a reasonable enough case to law enforcement that they have tenant rights and the matter will have to be taken up in court.

There are a number of ways a squatter can claim tenant rights which depend on the state. Obviously, falsifying documents like leases, utility bills etc are one way but also showing they have been occupying the space for some time while paying bills is another.

One other thing to note is that there are cases of people breaking into vacant homes and renting them out to unsuspecting people. Once the homeowner finds out there are people in the house, the fake landlord drops off the map and the renters are labeled as squatters even though they believed they were legitimately renting. The matter then obviously has to go to court.

It's a pretty unfortunate situation. You definitely want to minimize the opportunities for squatting to take place but at the same time you don't want to shift the power too far in favor of landlords. Florida recently passed a bill that makes it easier to remove squatters (law enforcement has more power and the 30 day window for tenant rights was increased to 45 days I believe).

Lastly, pretty much every state has squatter issues regardless of political leaning. Everywhere from New York to Texas is dealing with it.

What I don’t understand is why breaking into a home is not burglary. How is it not? Burglary is defined, at least in my state, as the breaking and entering of a dwelling with the intent to commit a crime. Squatters break in with the intent of illegal habitation, trespassing, fraud, theft, and all sorts of other crimes and they will use violence or threats of violence

 

[Teppodama]

I am in favor of violence against squatters. Short of execution, I am pretty open to all ideas

No Western nation will legally sanction violence against squatters. You would be punished more harshly than the squatter in all likelihood if you did. Western nations are in the business of continued curtailing the ability of its citizens from defending themselves from their governments and each other. The only violence Western governments wants is that which it sanctions to exert its will on a foreign nation or to enforce its control over its own citizens.

 

[jx820]

What I don’t understand is why breaking into a home is not burglary. How is it not? Burglary is defined, at least in my state, as the breaking and entering of a dwelling with the intent to commit a crime. Squatters break in with the intent of illegal habitation, trespassing, fraud, theft, and all sorts of other crimes and they will use violence or threats of violence

That's where the fake lease documents come in. If the cops just arrested everyone a property owner said was trespassing even if they had signed lease documents leases would be worthless.

It would just become an instant eviction tool. The couple in unit 2C is too loud... not any more, now the burgalars in 2C are too loud. Wish you didn't lease to that kinda sketchy couple... now you didn't you're just being burglarized.

It does also matter what's happening when the cops get there. It they're ripping the pipes out of the wall and loading the property owner's posessions into a trailer, it's probably still going to be a burglary charge. If they're mowing the lawn and painting it's tricky.

So you have to either appoint the police as civil judges capable of ruling on the legitimacy of documents, or you need to have the courts get involved.

 

[nhbbear]

No Western nation will legally sanction violence against squatters. You would be punished more harshly than the squatter in all likelihood if you did. Western nations are in the business of continued curtailing the ability of its citizens from defending themselves from their governments and each other. The only violence Western governments wants is that which it sanctions to exert its will on a foreign nation or to enforce its control over its own citizens.

I agree. If you or I beat the fuck out of a squatter in our house, we would be more likely to be punished and it could ruin our lives. They beat us up(not likely) and they get a slap on the wrist and it does nothing because these trash are already criminals.

But I am telling you right now, if I went away for ten days and found someone squatting in my home, they are catching an ass beating before I call the cops. And it would be my old department responding so there would be no question of who lived in my house.

 

[nhbbear]

That's where the fake lease documents come in. If the cops just arrested everyone a property owner said was trespassing even if they had signed lease documents leases would be worthless.

It would just become an instant eviction tool. The couple in unit 2C is too loud... not any more, now the burgalars in 2C are too loud. Wish you didn't lease to that kinda sketchy couple... now you didn't you're just being burglarized.

It does also matter what's happening when the cops get there. It they're ripping the pipes out of the wall and loading the property owner's posessions into a trailer, it's probably still going to be a burglary charge. If they're mowing the lawn and painting it's tricky.

So you have to either appoint the police as civil judges capable of ruling on the legitimacy of documents, or you need to have the courts get involved.

You’re talking about rental properties. I am referring to someone’s mother dying and then squatters move in, or you go to stay in Italy for a month and come home to squatters. It should be burglary charges, not trespassing. When I was a cop, and we would have a property owner that doesn’t live in the property come to check on it to find people living there, and I show up-I am making an arrest. The reason being is because I knew all the crackheads and homeless and there wouldn’t be a question in my mind as to who the property belonged to. I would check the tax office to see who the property is listed to. I knew my beat and I knew which houses were already broken into. Often, I would reach out to the owner and have them secure the property. But I would also do property searches all the time. It was how I started my day shift and midnights. I would check my abandoned houses and if I found someone there, they were getting arrested and charged with trespassing or if I knew the house had been secured before that, I would charge them with B&E as well as trespassing. But my state isn’t friendly with squatters.

I tried to keep these abandoned houses secure or at least the dirtbags knew that at least one cop would be checking. I would call out to dispatch and let them know I would be checking a property and usually, back-up would start rolling my way. Before I became a supervisor in 2010, I always had a partner and they knew if they picked in my car, they were going to be doing work and shit like that.

I had one house where there was a gate that people would open and go into the back yard to do drugs or hookers would take Johns back there. At the start of every shift, I would check it and secure the gate. The next time I passed through there, if the gate was open, I knew I had someone back there and I would sneak up on them and make arrests. These fools weren’t smart enough to close the gate-but even then, I would still occasionally check it. Pretty much, the shitbags knew if I was working, they stayed out of those places. Sure, I earned some disrespect in the manner of when I drove by, they would spit on the ground, so I would continually drive past hoping to make them dehydrated.

What I am guessing is that these aren’t happening in smaller to medium sized cities (like mine) because any cop worth a damn should know or have an idea who lives where and should know the people that would do something like this.

 

[jx820]

You’re talking about rental properties. I am referring to someone’s mother dying and then squatters move in, or you go to stay in Italy for a month and come home to squatters

Why wouldn't they have lease documents for those scenarios? You can make a lease agreement from an online template, grab a local realtor's logo from their website, print it at a library, and have it "signed" in front of a wittness. A person with a little hustle can probably figure out "notarizing" it. It'll stand up to all the scrutiny a beat cop is qualified to conduct on the spot.

When I was a cop, and we would have a property owner that doesn’t live in the property come to check on it to find people living there, and I show up-I am making an arrest.

And this is what probably happens most of the time. People who are able to drag these things out are more sophisticated criminals. Not necessarily masterminds, but they know the way to tie these things up in red tape. There was one (I think in Queens) that went viral a few weeks ago where the cops basically knew what was up, but the squatters had done their homework and the cops had to do everything by the book because it's all on video.

 

[My Spot]

People tend to care about things that might affect them. Going on vacation and coming home to a piece of shit living in and extorting you for your house, having to deal with a judicial system, lawyers, hotel expenses, etc. Having to deal with a federal tax audit is also very annoying even if you haven't done anything wrong. Both things that are very annoying, costly and can affect people who have done nothing wrong. It's not hard to sympathize with people who have these things happen to them, unless of course you don't own property or pay much in taxes.

He does that in every squatter thread. "But what about..." While claiming to supposedly not be pro squatter.

 

[nhbbear]

Why wouldn't they have lease documents for those scenarios? You can make a lease agreement from an online template, grab a local realtor's logo from their website, print it at a library, and have it "signed" in front of a wittness. A person with a little hustle can probably figure out "notarizing" it. It'll stand up to all the scrutiny a beat cop is qualified to conduct on the spot.



And this is what probably happens most of the time. People who are able to drag these things out are more sophisticated criminals. Not necessarily masterminds, but they know the way to tie these things up in red tape. There was one (I think in Queens) that went viral a few weeks ago where the cops basically knew what was up, but the squatters had done their homework and the cops had to do everything by the book because it's all on video.

If you are a landlord; you need to have a special lease agreement-maybe with a logo and keep copies of them so that when these trashbags try to produce a fake lease; it’s easy to prove that you don’t issue it.

 

[nhbbear]

Peak societal decay. Whoever passed these laws sounds have their property taken by a bunch of scamming dirt bags

I agree. It’s like when you have assholes that break up other people’s shit and then cry when it happens to them. If I lived in Portland, I would be a vigilante and find anqueefa cunts’ vehicles and bust the shit out of the windows since they seem to love breaking windows so much. Pepper spray the seats as well since they love to use “bear spray” against normal people

 

[jx820]

If you are a landlord; you need to have a special lease agreement-maybe with a logo and keep copies of them so that when these trashbags try to produce a fake lease; it’s easy to prove that you don’t issue it.

That's the thing, a negative is hard to prove. Just because it doesn't match your other lease agreements doesn't mean you didn't create, issue or sign it.

Maybe you're the scam artist trying to bilk this poor tennant out of a security deposit and two months down.

Maybe you're both victims of a 3rd party, as yet unknown, and someone is going to have to suffer financially due to this crime.

A cop doesn't have the jurisdiction to decide who has what rights there, and so it goes to court.

 

[kahiljabroni]

Your going to have to back to Medieval England to tackle the earliest case law establishing squatter's rights.

I'll do it

 

[jx820]

I'll do it

Give 'em hell

 

[nhbbear]

That's the thing, a negative is hard to prove. Just because it doesn't match your other lease agreements doesn't mean you didn't create, issue or sign it.

Maybe you're the scam artist trying to bilk this poor tennant out of a security deposit and two months down.

Maybe you're both victims of a 3rd party, as yet unknown, and someone is going to have to suffer financially due to this crime.

A cop doesn't have the jurisdiction to decide who has what rights there, and so it goes to court.

In that case, I am calling the prosecutor. The squatters usually won’t show up for court or they cancel and try to reschedule it for some date down the line. The stories I discussed earlier involved crackheads and homeless bums. They weren’t smart enough to try to run this scam and I wouldn’t fall for it. Again, I know the game these fucks are playing, and it sucks on so many levels because the property owner will never get monetary justice for the usual tons of damage they cause. They don’t have any money, no job to garnish wages, and the charges are usually inefficient. I am glad Florida is changing that to reflect the serious pain in the ass this causes, the amount of money it costs the property owner(cost of clean up and repairs, the loss of income because you can’t rent it with shitbags infesting it, the fact that you’ll never get that money back, the anger and helplessness you feel and the huge pain in the ass, and the fact that you feel taken advantage of and will likely get no justice.

I think at the very least, the government should give squatters a place to stay for at least a year(prison) where they can try and dodge getting plowed by some large man with skull tats and a ironic nickname like tiny. The laws need changed. The sentences need to be more commensurate to the pain and loss they cause. The arrest needs to come as a surprise before the shitbags can vanish and victim’s compensation funds should be accessible to the victims. And the case needs publicized. Watch some of the videos of these assholes. The ones that admit on camera that they are squatting should be arrested immediately but they know in their trash bag liberal utopia, they are temporarily untouchable and they know in places like Portland and nyc, they won’t get any time.

Here are some videos for your viewing pleasure

 

[spamking]

I feel for people who rent or lease and have issues with the landlord . . . but I also think a deed should trump a lease agreement when it comes to occupancy.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

I always just considered reverse squatting them and moving in when they left the place. Now I get my stuff and their stuff. Basically just change the locks whilst they are out and reclaim the property. It's kinda like Highlander but for squatting. There can only be one.

Or just move in with them.