Gulfport Woman Mauled to Death By 2 Pitbulls

[bushman505]

is it that the owners are always trash, or that you only hear about the trash owners?

The owners are all trash.

 

[woodguyatl]

You gotta question the ethics of the people who adopt these dogs out to unsuspecting people.

How is it proportionate? Labs, Golden Retrievers, and German Shepherds are all more common and have fewer deaths.

 

[ithinktheymad]

Let's assume that 10% of the fatalities ascribed to the pit bull family of breeds were based on incorrect identifications (and I am using an extremely liberal error estimate just for the sake of argument).

That still places the pit ridiculously out ahead of all other breeds and families of dogs in terms of attacks on humans resulting in death.

Except:
Pit Bull Identification Study

The study, undertaken by the University of Florida attempted to show the inaccuracy of pit bull identification. The study consisted of 12 shelter staff and 4 veterinarians across 4 different shelters. All participants had a minimum of 3 years experience in a shelter environment.

Each participant had to assign a breed to each of the 120 dogs. The decision had to be made on visual assessment alone. They were given no predefined choices or breed lists and had the option of listing a dog as mixed breed if necessary. No conferring between staff, or accessing reference materials was allowed.

Each of the 120 dogs had DNA profiles created for them, generated from blood samples. At the end of the study, the staff assessments were compared to the DNA profiles to determine their accuracy.
Comparing Results to DNA Profiles

The table below summaries the number dogs identified as pit bull or ‘not pit bull type’ by the study participants and whether this matched the DNA results. Of the 95 dogs that were not pit bull types, 36 were identified as pit bulls by at least one of the assessors. One in five dogs with genetic pit bull heritage were missed by all shelter staff at the time of the study.

Alternatively, since you're not disputing the human fatalities themselves (because you cannot), you are suggesting that perhaps the real "killers" in the dog family are not actually pits, but canines sometimes confused for pits - like Cane Corso's or Dogo Argentino's.

So you are still acknowledging that lethality can be tied to a particular breed of dog.

At the end of the day your argument is just a smokescreen. You would be better off pushing either the "it's all a product of bad owners" line or the "it's a free country so no restrictions" line. They are both garbage rebuttals but at least not complete sophistry.

Dogs bite people and certain dogs are physically capable enough to fatally wound some people. They have different temperaments and are thus suited for different handlers. That's as far as I go.

My argument is based off common sense not superstition and media outrage porn. If you would seperate the umbrella by breed like it rightfully should be and like every other breed is you'd see that dogs bite, injure, and kill human beings at roughly the same or similar rates. These being due to shitty owners or aberrations in the animal.

Oh man, you aren't really going with the "Pitbull isn't really a breed" argument that so many Pitbull apologists use, are you?

Well "Pitbull" isn't a breed American Pitbull Terrier is though. What I am going with is that it's an error to lump a variety of different breeds and crosses together then use that monolithic statistic as a comparison against single breeds.

They have a high prey drive like a terrier, but the size and strength to cause massive trauma. They also seem unusually relentless. You may hear about other dogs biting people, but very rarely does another dog breed commit to causing damage the way a pitbull does.

American Pitbull Terriers are terriers and they aren't a large breed.

 

[nac386]

American Pitbull Terriers are terriers and they aren't a large breed.

I didn't say they weren't terriers and I didn't say they were large.

 

[ithinktheymad]

They have a high prey drive like a terrier, but the size and strength to cause massive trauma. They also seem unusually relentless. You may hear about other dogs biting people, but very rarely does another dog breed commit to causing damage the way a pitbull does.

I didn't say they weren't terriers and I didn't say they were large.

Sorry if I misunderstood but it seems like that's what you were implying.

 

[nac386]

Sorry if I misunderstood but it seems like that's what you were implying.

I was saying they have high prey drives like most terriers, but are larger and more powerful than most terriers. Compare the size and strength of a pitbull to a Jack Russel terrier or Boston terrier.

 

[ithinktheymad]

I was saying they have high prey drives like most terriers, but are larger and more powerful than most terriers. Compare the size and strength of a pitbull to a Jack Russel terrier or Boston terrier.

The breed standard calls for them to be about 3" taller than a Boston terrier.

 

[nac386]

The breed standard calls for them to be about 3" taller than a Boston terrier.

Boston Terrier: 10-25 pounds
Pitbull Terrier: 35-65 pounds

 

[nac386]

You know what these threads do? Make everyone hate Pitbull owners/defenders. They get absolutely ridiculous in these threads. Are you really trying to convince me that a Pitbull is not much bigger or stronger than a Boston Terrier? Lol.

 

[lfd0311]

Well "Pitbull" isn't a breed American Pitbull Terrier is though. What I am going with is that it's an error to lump a variety of different breeds and crosses together then use that monolithic statistic as a comparison against single breeds.

This is the problem. People will say ridiculous stuff like this unironically. It's not a dog breed. Except that it is. What we're talking about is specifically American Pitbull terriers. They're amazingly aggressive and dangerous dogs. Their name has just been shortened to "pitbull" because nobody wants to say "American Pitbull Terrier".

American Pitbull Terriers are terriers and they aren't a large breed.

The average size of an American Pitbull Terrier is 40-45 pounds. To pretend that's a small dog is just disingenious.

 

[ultramanhyata]

You know what these threads do? Make everyone hate Pitbull owners/defenders. They get absolutely ridiculous in these threads. Are you really trying to convince me that a Pitbull is not much bigger or stronger than a Boston Terrier? Lol.

It's sad. They think they're going to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. But, as you say, they just make defenders and owners of pit bulls look like scuzzy con men who think a few dozen men, women and children getting killed every year, with hundreds disfigured, is a price worth paying so that these "noble" animals can become someone's pet dog.

It's amazing how a breed specifically bred to bite and hold and kill with maximum strength and efficiency might have a tendency to bite and hold and kill when the correct set of stimuli engages their innate instincts. Just crazy how that might happen. So counter-intuitive.

 

[Judoka1532]

If your argument is that pitbulls attack, wound, and kill people, then I agree. In absolute terms there is no question that they are the breed responsible for the most injuries and fatalities every year. But given that they are one of the most numerous breeds in the US, in percentage terms they are much less inclined to violence than say, a chow chow.

Yea I mean i'm sure it's hard to know the exact numbers but I did find this: "Overall there are approximately 78.2 million dogs throughout the United States, 3.91 million of those dogs are pit bulls. However, 40 percent of dogs in animal shelters are characterized as bully breeds, and 20 percent of those are called pit bulls." That's not really that many in comparison to other dog breeds.

22 of 41 dog deaths were from pitbulls in 2016. Pitbulls make up 5% of all dogs yet account for 53% of deaths. Furthermore, I don't how many were pit mixes. I think a lot of people see the bully dogs and assume they are pits either. Those dogs may be dangerous as well. Somebody else mentioned something about other breeds killing or biting too....that may be true. But we are talking bout pit bulls and what they are capable of.

In Allegheny County, PA There's roughly 1200 dog bites a year (I did the research) and pits make up 14% followed by german shepard's at 6%. Now specific to that region I don't know the percentages of dogs.

43,575 is the number of registered german shepherds of all dogs. I don't know the number of actual german shepherds but this shows they are a very common and prevalent dog breed.

The most common dog breed is non-pit terriers. Bully breeds are listed at number 4. So of those bully breeds...I'm thinking about 20% are pit bulls. There are 20% of pitbulls of all bully breeds in pounds (which bully breeds make up 40% of all dogs in pounds). So roughly 8% of dogs in pounds are pits.

 

[Judoka1532]

This is the problem. People will say ridiculous stuff like this unironically. It's not a dog breed. Except that it is. What we're talking about is specifically American Pitbull terriers. They're amazingly aggressive and dangerous dogs. Their name has just been shortened to "pitbull" because nobody wants to say "American Pitbull Terrier".




The average size of an American Pitbull Terrier is 40-45 pounds. To pretend that's a small dog is just disingenious.

Pits are known for their temperament. They bite less often then some popular family dogs

need links...

 

[Judoka1532]

Let's assume that 10% of the fatalities ascribed to the pit bull family of breeds were based on incorrect identifications (and I am using an extremely liberal error estimate just for the sake of argument).

That still places the pit ridiculously out ahead of all other breeds and families of dogs in terms of attacks on humans resulting in death.

Alternatively, since you're not disputing the human fatalities themselves (because you cannot), you are suggesting that perhaps the real "killers" in the dog family are not actually pits, but canines sometimes confused for pits - like Cane Corso's or Dogo Argentino's.

So you are still acknowledging that lethality can be tied to a particular breed of dog.

At the end of the day your argument is just a smokescreen. You would be better off pushing either the "it's all a product of bad owners" line or the "it's a free country so no restrictions" line. They are both garbage rebuttals but at least not complete sophistry.

yea there's a such thing as a bully breed. This is a combination of dangerous dogs. pits are def the front runners of those dogs

 

[ithinktheymad]

You know what these threads do? Make everyone hate Pitbull owners/defenders. They get absolutely ridiculous in these threads. Are you really trying to convince me that a Pitbull is not much bigger or stronger than a Boston Terrier? Lol.

They are a bit bigger and stronger but it's not like we're comparing Neopolitan Mastiffs with Chihuahuas here.

This is the problem. People will say ridiculous stuff like this unironically. It's not a dog breed. Except that it is. What we're talking about is specifically American Pitbull terriers. They're amazingly aggressive and dangerous dogs. Their name has just been shortened to "pitbull" because nobody wants to say "American Pitbull Terrier".




The average size of an American Pitbull Terrier is 40-45 pounds. To pretend that's a small dog is just disingenious.

Well if you've paid any attention to the discussion what I and several others have been repeatedly explaining is that "Pitbull" is an umbrella term for several breeds and crosses INCLUDING the American Pitbull Terrier. The average member of the public is highly misninformed about the category and the namesake breed.

They are aggressive. The breed standard calls for them to be ANIMAL aggressive.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

need links...

http://dogtime.com/dog-health/general/1220-american-pit-bull-terrier-temperament-dog-bites

First of all let’s talk about the testing involved. Here’s how the American Temperament Testing Society explains or describes their testing.

The ATTS Temperament Test focuses on and measures different aspects of temperament such as stability, shyness, aggressiveness, and friendliness as well as the dog’s instinct for protectiveness towards its handler and/or self-preservation in the face of a threat.

The test simulates a casual walk through a park or neighborhood where everyday life situations are encountered. During this walk, the dog experiences visual, auditory and tactile stimuli. Neutral, friendly and threatening situations are encountered, calling into play the dog’s ability to distinguish between non-threatening situations and those calling for watchful and protective reactions.

The American Temperament Testing society tested 870 Pit Bulls and of those 755 passed the test, while 115 did not. They had an 86% pass rate.

They also tested 785 Golden Retrievers. Of those 669 passed and 116 failed leaving Golden Retrievers with an 85.2% pass rate.

@ultramanhyata
@nac386

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Did I just kill the thread with *gasp* facts?

 

[Judoka1532]

http://dogtime.com/dog-health/general/1220-american-pit-bull-terrier-temperament-dog-bites

First of all let’s talk about the testing involved. Here’s how the American Temperament Testing Society explains or describes their testing.

The ATTS Temperament Test focuses on and measures different aspects of temperament such as stability, shyness, aggressiveness, and friendliness as well as the dog’s instinct for protectiveness towards its handler and/or self-preservation in the face of a threat.

The test simulates a casual walk through a park or neighborhood where everyday life situations are encountered. During this walk, the dog experiences visual, auditory and tactile stimuli. Neutral, friendly and threatening situations are encountered, calling into play the dog’s ability to distinguish between non-threatening situations and those calling for watchful and protective reactions.

The American Temperament Testing society tested 870 Pit Bulls and of those 755 passed the test, while 115 did not. They had an 86% pass rate.

They also tested 785 Golden Retrievers. Of those 669 passed and 116 failed leaving Golden Retrievers with an 85.2% pass rate.

@ultramanhyata
@nac386

Did the dogs attack men in suits? If so, I suppose that would be somewhat reliable. If not...then let me assume some things.

Idk if you saw stats that I saw but they speak for themselves. The stats I posted show the bottom line. I respect your opinion on this matter, but you are talking about a scientific test with obvious restrictions on a dog's ability to actually show it's true intent and fully be aggressive. I'm sure they tried to mimic real life scenarios but I find that harder to do than gathering observations from real-life encounters with dangerous dogs. Dog bites and deaths by dogs on the other hand are real-life facts with no scientific setting limiting the full action of the dog. And that's with good reason bc we obviously don't want to do a test with dogs actually chewing up people or other dogs. But, if we are pulling data I think it needs to as realistic as possible. Maybe I need to know more about the study.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Did the dogs attack men in suits? If so, I suppose that would be somewhat reliable. If not...then let me assume some things.

Idk if you saw stats that I saw but they speak for themselves. The stats I posted show the bottom line. I respect your opinion on this matter, but you are talking about a scientific test with obvious restrictions on a dog's ability to actually show it's true intent and fully be aggressive. I'm sure they tried to mimic real life scenarios but I find that harder to do than gathering observations from real-life encounters with dangerous dogs. Dog bites and deaths by dogs on the other hand are real-life facts with no scientific setting limiting the full action of the dog. And that's with good reason bc we obviously don't want to do a test with dogs actually chewing up people or other dogs. But, if we are pulling data I think it needs to as realistic as possible. Maybe I need to know more about the study.

lol I don't know what better info you could possibly be holding out for. You've been shown pits are extremely common to be misidentified. You've also been shown that they are known by professionals for their good temperament. You have your mind made up, and it's not by the facts

 

[Judoka1532]

lol I don't know what better info you could possibly be holding out for. You've been shown pits are extremely common to be misidentified. You've also been shown that they are known by professionals for their good temperament. You have your mind made up, and it's not by the facts

I'm going to like your post because yes mind my is made up. I get the feeling yours is made up too.