Gi Grips in BJJ

[SummerStriker]

I've been doing almost exclusively no gi for the last year or so. None of my current training partners care about the gi. The only training I've had is some gi based chokes in a recent private lesson.

I have been to a lot of gi classes back in the day, so it isn't foreign to me, but I've learned so much more BJJ in the last year that whatever I did before was basically untrained flailing.

I went to a gi class today, and I can't speak for the level of the people. I believe I am about equal to the fresh blue belts I know, both in technique and skill rolling. These guys felt very difficult to me, and were close to my size. It was a Judo school, but their students cross train BJJ and wrestling.

Anyway, the argument against the gi is that the grips are unfair if you don't train them AND training them is a waste of precious time if you are training for MMA (I don't mean to express that this is my opinion; I just mean that this is the prevalent opinion in my circle).

The thing about these guys was that I thought that their gi grips were LESS effective than conventional posture control. Normally in no gi, if my posture gets broken, I have to overcome some serious pummeling to get back to a neutral position. If I get my head free, the other hand switches up and grabs it. If I get a wrist free, the hand that lost it gets a friction grip on my back, and the fight continues.

With the gi grips, people constantly grabbing at my collar and sleeves, I thought it was easier than normal to regain my posture if I lost it. All I had to do was jerk their grip free and all that space would work against them. Basically, grabbing the front of my shirt always leaves more space than the back of my head or shoulder, and that space = time.

Once I would get their grip free, there was no chance of them stopping me from posturing all the way up.

I imagine that grips could be devastating, like if you get you get your posture broken and then they grab the back of your collar or something, but I just didn't see it. If you are holding the front when you break me down, switching to the back is basically just letting me back up.

Clearly my rolling partners are not the highest level in the world, so could someone take pity on my limited understanding and help me understand the role of the gi grip?

 

[DanOfEarth]

Gi grips are massively superior at controlling an individual. It should be much harder for you to break my grip on your sleeve then my nogi grip on your wrist. Grips make transitioning to other positions and moves much easier for the user, but much more difficult to escape for the defender.

If people are hanging low on your collar with their grip it's entirely possible they aren't looking to break your posture. When I want to break someones posture with a collar grip I do so with a deep inside cross collar grip on one side and my forearm will be running length wise across their chest. I can use my other hand to come over the top if I want. In Gi I can let you have your posture and not waste my time or energy breaking it down until the moment I want it. In NOGI a lot of times you have to break the persons posture down to even get what you want going because you don't have as many choke or guard options.

The sleeve grips in particular open up many more options for directional sweeps because of the drastic increase in control and leverage options (Like spider guard) that otherwise would be improbable in NOGI.

In regards to the MMA comments, a guy who can escape an armbar in GI has a much higher chance of escaping an armbar in NOGI than a NOGI person does in GI. This really goes for the majority of submissions. Grips on clothing are much more difficult to break than a hand grabbing a smooth surface. So if you want the best defenses in particular, it's wise to train both.

 

[DaGenius]

If you are a big athletic guy, which i know you are SummerS, you will be able to use those advantages more in no-gi as opposed to gi. Higher belts will be able to slow you down as you like with proper grips. Yes you can break them, then they reestablish somewhere else and execute the technique they were setting you up for.

All good though. I think it's good to learn/train both.

 

[Ninjapunch209]

Do both,

 

[Digitsu]

Both Gi and No Gi training are important and beneficial in different ways. Training in the Gi against primarily Gi practitioners will tighten your defense, as you can't just explode and slip out of most positions. Training No Gi will help keep your offensive positions tight, as an explosive opponent is more likely to escape without the Gi.

As far as controlling posture, I personally will use a mix of Gi and No Gi control to break my opponents posture and keep it broken. But I have trained with guys who's grip is so strong I can't break it and there's no need for them to change their grip.

Braulio Estima gives a really good explanation of the benefits of Gi and No Gi training in his "Rolled Up' episode on BudoVideos.com, if you haven't seen it, you should check it out!

 

[Harukaze]

A proper gi grip to break posture should basically be the same as the no-gi grip but with an added handle on top of it, making it that much more effective. Of course, with the gi, there are additional grips that you can use to work your way to your "goal" grip, so if you stop (or get stopped) at one of the those grips, of course posture won't be as easily broken.

Try playing grips with some active competitor judo blackbelts, see what you think about their "clamps"!

 

[SummerStriker]

Want me to give him the clamps boss?

 

[DanOfEarth]

Want me to give him the clamps boss?

 

[Fightshopca]

Grip are fun and annoying at the same time.

 

[Harukaze]

Want me to give him the clamps boss?

You and DanOfEarth got the reference, me gusta! :icon_chee

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

You must have been working with some people without very good grips, or at least, ineffective and pointless grips. (This isn't meant to be insulting at all...many in my school don't effectively use grips.....it takes time to learn them, how to use them, when to let them go, how to make the better, etc.)

When a good blue belt or above gets a solid grip on the gi, it's just as effective in most cases, and more effective in many cases, than a head or wrist grip.

Dealing with gi grips pretty much becomes the name of the game once you're playing at higher levels.

 

[junco]

For me, the most noticeable difference is the sleeve and pants grips. In no-gi, it's much easier to break wrist and ankle grips by simply pulling or kicking. In gi, if you give the guy time to really set his grips on your pants, you're going to have to commit both hands to breaking that grip (which gives him a huge advantage in terms of passing).

If you play butterfly guard at all, you better do your damnedest to prevent the other guy from getting grips on your pants near your ankles. If he gets those grips, you're in for a very tough night.

 

[nefti]

Every no Gi grip is more effective with the gi. I e over hooks and underhooks

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

Every no Gi grip is more effective with the gi. I e over hooks and underhooks

Very true. All that friction makes for a nasty hold.

 

[nefti]

The sizzler with the collar grip? Forget about it

 

[nefti]

Damn that auto spelling, I mean the whizzer

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

Damn that auto spelling, I mean the whizzer

No...we are now calling it the sizzler. It's too late.

 

[lechien]

Once I would get their grip free, there was no chance of them stopping me from posturing all the way up.

I imagine that grips could be devastating, like if you get you get your posture broken and then they grab the back of your collar or something, but I just didn't see it. If you are holding the front when you break me down, switching to the back is basically just letting me back up.

Clearly my rolling partners are not the highest level in the world, so could someone take pity on my limited understanding and help me understand the role of the gi grip?

It depends on the person.

I cannot be bothered to break your posture and actually I want you to posture up and try to stand into my open guard.

 

[Commissar]

I'm primarily a gi guy, but I also train a ton of no-gi and I do MMA as well.

It is my opinion that training in the gi actually does improve my abilities in MMA. Of course it is important to also do no-gi, but doing gi forces me to establish guard passes, escape submissions, and so forth, against greater grips and friction than no gi. If I can escape an armbar using pure technique in the gi, then I can often escape one with technique and athleticism in no gi.

I trained almost exclusively judo for a year (and continued training after) and was able to develop an excellent grip game. It really can make the difference if you know what you're doing and how to do it.

 

[orangeclay]

I think good grips in gi involve a willingness to let go and regrip and also to use grips purposely placed lightly in order to set-up other positions and to catch better grip placement. It is just part of the game. If I am actually trying to break someone's posture in Gi I don't just rely on grips any more than I would rely on grips in nogi to do the same. I also wouldn't try to hold someone down with grips alone. But, in gi, as you do break posture there is a whole lot of sneaky collar chokes you can look for and a lot of fun holds you can try to catch. My mistake when I was first learning gi was to try to maintain my grips and hold on for dear life. Honestly, taking up nogi helped me have a better grip game since I got me over the habit of holding over transitioning. I now train both gi and nogi about equal time and find they really help each other.