News Former M-1 Lightweight Champion, Damir Ismagulov, Signs Contract with UFC

[Feniamin]

well, now were getting into weird... i was born in this country with parents from this country... so.. whatever, guy isnt russian.

i was just stirring shit, anyway.
these convos are kinda stupid. there will never be decisive conclusions... even tho a guy born in kazakhstan will be called russian just cause

I think it will be easier to call Ismagulov Russian citizen of Kazakh origin. Like, I think there were one ( maybe even more) ethnically Kazakh guy in UFC but he was Chinese citizen.

 

[DoopidyDawesome]

I liked things better when race and ethnicity and political bullshit in general weren't the focal points of MMA discussions. Call me old fashioned.

 

[AimedWithV]

I believe it was re. haplogroup distributions similar to here though:

https://haplomaps.com/c2/

Interesting. I mean, actually HISTORICALLY very interesting.

On the map you can see too many traces of this haplogroup in the Indochina region. Not only green, but yellow as well.
This is actually the area Mongols never conquered. And never intended to. Under any names. Even as Yuan Dinasty (same Mongols, only ruling China).
Myanmar, Thailand, Vietnam shouldn't have so much Mongol blood. Philippines and Indonesia - WTF, not at all. Muslims came to Indonesia from the other side, and Phillipines were freaking savages before Magellan.

India should have more of this haplogroup presented with red/yellow - because Mughals. All the Mughal Rajas had A LOT of Genghis Khan blood.

Also where is red/yellow in Iran? Iraq? All the Siberia? Damn, Mongols rode and ruled the fucking Siberia long before Russians dared to cross Ural mountains. "Siberia" comes from Mongol language.

They say that they don;t know 100% if this haplogroup indeed belongs to Genghis Khan. Well, it makes sense, because no one ever touched his remains and cannot take a genetic probe.
Maybe this map shows that this haplogroup DOES NOT connect to him?


This is for the 1st link. I'll research the second later on

 

[AimedWithV]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2253976/

Hehe man check the area they're talking about:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2253976/figure/fig2/

I'm sure they are correct about THIS SPECIFIC area.
This is where the original Russian Slavs settled before Mongols came.
Part of this area even was free from Mongols (Novgorod land, for instance: Mongols never touched it).

Now imagine guys like Shlemenko: born and raised in Omsk, dunno how many generations of his ancestors been there.
Omsk was founded in the middle of 18th century, and was 100% Russian town, but they had a lot of Siberians and Mongols to mix with.

 

[Feniamin]

Hehe man check the area they're talking about:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2253976/figure/fig2/

I'm sure they are correct about THIS SPECIFIC area.
This is where the original Russian Slavs settled before Mongols came.
Part of this area even was free from Mongols (Novgorod land, for instance: Mongols never touched it).

Now imagine guys like Shlemenko: born and raised in Omsk, dunno how many generations of his ancestors been there.
Omsk was founded in the middle of 18th century, and was 100% Russian town, but they had a lot of Siberians and Mongols to mix with.

Dude, "Shlemenko" is not a Russian surname if you didn't know. Surnames that ends with -ko are of Ukrainian origin.

 

[AimedWithV]

Dude, "Shlemenko" is not a Russian surname if you didn't know. Surnames that ends with -ko are of Ukrainian origin.

Surname doesn't necessarily show ethnicity.
Ukraine surnames exist for around 3 centirues. Ukrainians were exploring/sent to Siberia in the past just like Russians did - all were part of the Russian Empire and then USSR.
The more generations Shlemenko family was in Siberia - the more his genes were filled with the populations dominant there.
So in this case it does not matter much. He has the same Siberian blood as Ivan Ivanov next door.

Plus, Ukrainians and Russians are VERY close to each other genes - Ukrainians were only ruled by Lithuanians and then Polish, but the blood is the exact same blood as Russian one.

 

[The_Renaissance]

Nice, a Russian who isn't part of that weird tribe that refuses to fight each other.

Oh, he's Kazakh is he, sweet.

 

[KhaBeiber]

I think Khabib is of Turkic ethnicity, are Kazakhs are mostly Turkic(excluding the ethnic Russians and what not). Plus Kazakstan was part of the Soviert Union so really not much different.

 

[Histalian]

Was waiting for this lol

 

[AimedWithV]

I think Khabib is of Turkic ethnicity, are Kazakhs are mostly Turkic(excluding the ethnic Russians and what not). Plus Kazakstan was part of the Soviert Union so really not much different.

Turkification mixed Mongols and Turks into one huge mass.
Dagestanis themselves is a huge mix of Causasus nations, Arabs and Mongols/Turkis

 

[davisxp]

With the replies this thread is getting, you'd think it belongs in the War Room, not the UFC discussion.

 

[Toad Frogan]

Hehe man check the area they're talking about:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2253976/figure/fig2/

I'm sure they are correct about THIS SPECIFIC area.
This is where the original Russian Slavs settled before Mongols came.
Part of this area even was free from Mongols (Novgorod land, for instance: Mongols never touched it).

Now imagine guys like Shlemenko: born and raised in Omsk, dunno how many generations of his ancestors been there.
Omsk was founded in the middle of 18th century, and was 100% Russian town, but they had a lot of Siberians and Mongols to mix with.

Omsk, my father's hometown. Mother was born in Barnaul. I feel there is Mongol blood on my mom's side due to the eye shape. Though they are green.

 

[AimedWithV]

Omsk, my father's hometown. Mother was born in Barnaul. I feel there is Mongol blood on my mom's side due to the eye shape. Though they are green.

Very very likely, bratan.
Many Russians (not only from Siberian regions) have this eye shape. They even say "it's OK for a Russian to have a bit of Tatar in him"

 

[TR1]

I think Khabib is of Turkic ethnicity, are Kazakhs are mostly Turkic(excluding the ethnic Russians and what not). Plus Kazakstan was part of the Soviert Union so really not much different.

Khabib is Avar, so he is entirely North Caucasian.

There are Turcic groups in Dagestan, most notable the Kumyks, but they have a bit of a different history from the "locals" so to speak.

 

[Grapplefest]

I think Khabib is of Turkic ethnicity, are Kazakhs are mostly Turkic(excluding the ethnic Russians and what not). Plus Kazakstan was part of the Soviert Union so really not much different.

Turkic people are mongoloid and descend from ancient Mongolia, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, etc are Turkic people. They're basically Mongolians with very small West Asian mixture. Khabib is an Avar, which is its own, non-mongoloid, Caucasian group.

Avars are their own North Caucasian people with very little mixture throughout history, not a mixture of Mongolians, Arabs and Caucasians like the other guy said. There are Turkic mongoloid ethnic groups in Dagestan, but the majority are Caucasian.

 

[Lemmy Caution]

Kazakhs, when first established themselves as separate nation (around 400 years ago), felt proud to have their every little chiefs being able to trace their blood up to Genghis. With actual proofs.

Why shouldn't they be? Genghis is the greatest military leader in human history. He may not have had a lasting impact of the scale of Napoleon, who created modern Europe, but he conquered half the world on horses. And people said they wanted to have a beer with George W. Bush, the single worst military leader in human history. I'd rather have one with the best.

 

[AimedWithV]

Khabib is Avar, so he is entirely North Caucasian.

Avars are their own North Caucasian people with very little mixture throughout history, not a mixture of Mongolians, Arabs and Caucasians like the other guy said.

Yes you guys are right about Khabib. And I stand corrected.

 

[AimedWithV]

Why shouldn't they be? Genghis is the greatest military leader in human history. He may not have had a lasting impact of the scale of Napoleon, who created modern Europe, but he conquered half the world on horses. And people said they wanted to have a beer with George W. Bush, the single worst military leader in human history. I'd rather have one with the best.

Actually I think Genghis Khan created bigger impact.

Napoleon created many things that define modern Europe (and overall modern society) but not everything.
Plus, he was not the REASON of the change, only the LEADER of it. He surely was the smartest and the luckiest young general from the French Revolutionary movement, but there were others, and they would've come probably to pretty much the same political decisions.
Hell, maybe the would've even been as good military minds as Napoleon, who always been surrounded by smart generals anyway...

Genghis Khan took the nation of poor horse rising herders, dirty, savage, disorganized - centralized them, put them above everyone else and took them through the whole world to conquer it all.
If he didn't do it, no would would've even tried.
His Empire , at its biggest, was from Hungary to Korea. And it triggered a lot of knowledge exchange - for example, firearms and paper came to Europe from China via Mongols.

As of having a beer with them - actually I'm not sure if I'd want to drink beer with mass murderers of millions of absolutely innocent civilians...

 

[Feniamin]

Surname doesn't necessarily show ethnicity.
Ukraine surnames exist for around 3 centirues. Ukrainians were exploring/sent to Siberia in the past just like Russians did - all were part of the Russian Empire and then USSR.
The more generations Shlemenko family was in Siberia - the more his genes were filled with the populations dominant there.
So in this case it does not matter much. He has the same Siberian blood as Ivan Ivanov next door.

Plus, Ukrainians and Russians are VERY close to each other genes - Ukrainians were only ruled by Lithuanians and then Polish, but the blood is the exact same blood as Russian one.

He might have 0 Siberian blood. For example - Siver is from Omsk too and he is German, Karakhanyan and Sherbatov are from Moscow and one is Armenian and other is Jewish.

 

[AimedWithV]

He might have 0 Siberian blood. For example - Siver is from Omsk too and he is German, Karakhanyan and Sherbatov are from Moscow and one is Armenian and other is Jewish.

These guys you mentioned are exceptions, each one with his story. What defines them all - they are not Russian by nationality initially.
First of all, there is a big chance they did mix with other nationalities - that's what USSR/ Russia is all about. Not necessarily, but we cannot know whether, for example, Siver's grandma is Russian proper. No reason for it not to be.

I don't know about Shlemenko's family and how many generations they lived in Omsk, but since they are Russians by nationality (even if they're Ukrainian) , they could've been there from 18th century.
First Shlemenko from Omsk could be some Ukrainian Cossack that helped building the city and then stayed living there. And then, trust me - enough of Siberian blood is there.