former fighter in their prime vs current fighter argument

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Kvolcom, Aug 12, 2017.

  1. Kvolcom

    Kvolcom Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Messages:
    1,864
    Likes Received:
    5,226
    This needs to stop! You are sounding like old boxing guys who think everyone from back in the day would kill the fighters of today. When the reality is humans only advance and get better so it's actually the complete opposite.

    With MMA, it has been around for less than 30 years. When guys talk about fighters from the Pride Era, we are talking about the peach bucket era in NBA, in the NFL when they wore those ear muffs...this is the pride era

    No fighter from back in the day is better than fighters of today. Just stop! The sport is way too young and evolving way too fast for any fighter from back in the day to stand a chance.

    Prime Fedor gets eaten by Mitoic
    Prime Chuck or Wand get eaten by Jones
    Prime Hughes gets eaten by Woodley


    All of them would get eaten alive. It's a different game! Don't get me wrong, you can only judge a fighter what they did in their era, but at this stage of the game, no one in the past stands a chance in hell.
     
    Bubblun likes this.
  2. AimedWithV

    AimedWithV Wound in the Force

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
    Messages:
    4,936
    Likes Received:
    9,518
    So your only valid point besides all this blabbering is "humans only advance"?
    That's it?
    Weak. Not informative.

    As you mentioned, MMA is a young sport. No one said that humans in MMA advanced that much, like in boxing: not even half of the generation passed!
    The discussions that you dislike that much have much more valid points. You're just too stupid to understand.

    /thread.
     
  3. Kvolcom

    Kvolcom Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Messages:
    1,864
    Likes Received:
    5,226
    You tell me, anyone from the peach bucket era of basketball can play in the NBA today?

    Anyone wearing ear muffs playing football 50 years ago can play today?

    History is on my side. Just look at the tape lol The athlete always gets better, epsecially in a sport as young as MMA. You can't sit there and tell me that during the 2 grand to show 2 grand to win Pride era of MMA you were getting the same level athlete as you are today.

    Just stop, everyone from back in the day gets killed! End of story! End of debate!
     
    Bubblun likes this.
  4. carpediem

    carpediem Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    899
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Darlington, England
    Wow you should work for the UN as a peace envoy or something. You could just settle disputes by saying end of debate!

    You sweeping statement of course missing something out. If fighters from different eras were to encouter one another then they'd be different wouldn't they? Since they'd have had to develop in the same time for such a fantasy match to happen.

    Different isn't always worse. Could a boxer who had never fought without gloves beat someone who WAS used to it in a bareknuckle fight? Would someone who has never experienced soccer kicks be able to adjust and out Wand Wand? It's more than likely they would fucking die.
     
  5. Cormier's Little Guy

    Cormier's Little Guy Three-foot-nine with a ten-foot Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Messages:
    8,923
    Likes Received:
    27,562
    Location:
    DC's Pocket
    If we want to make the argument more valid, we have to assume that the back in day fighters are going through the same training as current fighters. So more like a "Prime Chuck," with current training. Like, what if Chuck was born 10 years later.
     
    Bubblun, A.S. Deep and jumasterflex like this.
  6. Rampage_Jackson

    Rampage_Jackson Black Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    5,519
    Likes Received:
    5,139
    Location:
    Bay Area
    I'd love to see one of these point fighting sissies who leg hump for a living or put a hand down to avoid a knee to the skull would do with prime Shogun or Wanderlei or Cro Cop trying to kick their head off in the Saitama Super Arena.
     
    A.S. Deep and jumasterflex like this.
  7. Jonathonwick

    Jonathonwick Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2017
    Messages:
    640
    Likes Received:
    1,157
    Who's mitoic?
     
    jumasterflex likes this.
  8. jsbx45

    jsbx45 Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    2,017
    Location:
    Cali
    Agree, that these comparisons need to be taken with a grain of salt. While there are always exceptional individuals (think Michael Jordan perhaps?) the general trend in sports is an evolution towards refinement of techniques and skills. Most of the old guard would likely get a beat down.
     
  9. g*r*b

    g*r*b Super-Stretch Elastic Waistband

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2016
    Messages:
    3,639
    Likes Received:
    6,278
    Location:
    Conjunction Junction
    I agree that former fighter vs current fighter comparisons are silly, but that's because they're unprovable. To put your trust in a blanket theory of "humans only ever get better and better and better!" — a sort of bastard lovechild of Darwin and Pollyanna — is actively stupid. You can never rule out a past lucky roll of the genetic dice that ignores your simplistic story arc.
     
  10. NotSoSure

    NotSoSure Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2012
    Messages:
    6,785
    Likes Received:
    4,857
    You have to believe that humans are changing biologically at an incredibly rapid pace for your assertion to be true: that humans, in the span of less than one century, "only advance and get better".

    The idea behind matching up an old-timer and a current-day fighter is not completely wrong. What changes is the level of competition, the bar is raised and the level at which the sport is practised increases. This does not mean that extraordinary individuals from other periods would not also be dominant in later eras. The other way around is true. If current-day fighters were not trained with the knowledge accumulated and the records set by "old-timers", they would, by definition, be practising the sport at the level of 20 years ago.

    But a freak like "prime Fedor", if he was 15 years younger, would very likely be a dominant force at current day LHW: who knows? Ali would have been a great boxer regardless of when he was born: he would definitely be much different these days. The problem is: he set the standards of the sport so they could be much higher to begin with...you'd still have a figure of legendary old timers that elevated the sport to what it is today.

    That's how records evolve in performance sports.
     
    UhHuhSure and g*r*b like this.
  11. SHAZAM

    SHAZAM Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2011
    Messages:
    3,448
    Likes Received:
    953
    You're right for the most part except when it comes to HW. They haven't evolved much past guys like Fedor. There are simply more guys at that level. I still don't see much evolution in terms of skill @ HW or even LHW with the exception of Jones. Now MW and down are insane. I i know LW has always been stacked and so has WW. Its tricky though cuz we can sit here and claim Woodley is on a different level than Hughes and he is, but its the same Woodley that was beat by Shields. So there's a big gap in skill level between some champions from different eras but i feel like the heavier classes didn't really evolve much while the lighter ones did. I guess id put Hughes, Nogs, Chucks in one category where those guys couldn't beat the modern guys but Shoguns, GSPs and Fedors could. Obviously Ronda and Royce ain't touching anyone. So where do we draw the line?

    Hughes
    Big Nog
    Lesnar
    Couture
    Franklin

    Those kind of limited fighters wouldn't make it imo.
     
  12. BigMuffler

    BigMuffler Loli is love loli is life!

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2012
    Messages:
    27,157
    Likes Received:
    19,573
    Wouldn't really think of these as very limited fighters...
     
  13. thehighking

    thehighking Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    3,433
    Likes Received:
    3,876
    Location:
    San Diego
    I don't know any boxer today that could beat a prime Sugar Ray Leonard
     
  14. AimedWithV

    AimedWithV Wound in the Force

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
    Messages:
    4,936
    Likes Received:
    9,518
    History is NOT on your side, because not enough time passed to talk about HISTORY in MMA.
    a couple of years passed. That's it.

    Maybe it's too much for you to understand because you're a teenager. You'll grow up and understand.
     
  15. Bubblun

    Bubblun Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2012
    Messages:
    3,147
    Likes Received:
    2,000
    You need to be blind or full of shit to not see mma is growing and getting higher level every year.
    Forget the Pride era, even compared to 5 years ago the sport evolved so much.
     
  16. KORMAN

    KORMAN The Dominator - Killashaw - Khabib time

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
    Messages:
    7,251
    Likes Received:
    9,278
    You're a complete schmuck if you actually think Stipe eats Fedor alive. Fedor was going toe to toe with Cro Cop for gods sake.
     
  17. Calipwnia

    Calipwnia Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2011
    Messages:
    2,191
    Likes Received:
    2,875
    Location:
    Newport Beach
    Peds were encouraged in Pride though... USADA has different fighters
     

Share This Page