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You're prolly right, I'll shut up.
Fights where gameplan beats skill/talent
- Thread starter MMA fan93
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Nobody gonna read dis, but whateva. Cliffs at da bottom, y'lazy muthaphukkaz.
Cain/JDS 2 & 3 deserves a mention IMO.
Overall, Cain actually is the more skilled fighter because he's far more complete/well-rounded and such (great striking, wrestling, ground-and-pound, etc), whereas Junior is mostly just boxing, but these fights were more about Cain's gameplan instead of just pure skill and ability, really. Cain had the perfect gameplan to beat Junior. It was pretty much flawless. He had him completely figured out and I believe those two beatings really laid the blueprint for beating Junior. Stipe utilized a somewhat similar plan in the first fight and also the second fight, only Stipe was far improved and took complete advantage of Junior's holes (backing to the fence too and dropping his hands for some strange reason, thinking he's Roy Jones Jr. or something).
He made him react exactly how he wanted to for basically 25 minutes both times. He'd push him to the fence and Junior expected Cain to shoot, but Cain would throw punches to force Junior to cover up and that would give Cain an opening to either initiate the clinch/double underhooks or shoot for the TD. It worked amazingly in both fights almost the entire time. Junior had no answer at all for this in either fight. The only thing he really showed in the rubber match that was different/improved was the elbows in the clinch. He still had little to nothing while moving backwards in terms of countering ability, and he still just got pushed to the fence way too easily (Cain is also just great at pushing opponents back to the fence anyway), and like I said, he also drops his hands at the fence way too often and tries to move his head.
Cain, as well as Stipe, took complete advantage of these holes in Junior's game. Cain used a masterful gameplan to beat him. He simply outsmarted him pretty much and Junior had absolutely f'n nothing to offer. Cain always comes in with a good gameplan, though. Most of his performances may look like he doesn't actually have a gameplan since most of his fights are very much of the same thing - but if you really pay attention to what he's doing, you can see the different attacks he does in each fight that often work very well. It's a clear sign that him and his team/coach (Javier Mendez) really study the opponent and put together a great gameplan each time. He was doing fine against Werdum until he slowed down halfway through the first or so.
Unfortunately, most 'fans' here don't seem to understand how the altitude works and how it effected Cain's cardio that night. Most fighters on that card actually slowed down much quicker than they usually do. Even Alvarez and Melendez looked more tired than usual after 5 minutes when they're both known for having a decent gas tank. It's really no excuse, though. Werdum was very well prepared that night. Even if Cain's cardio was in check like usual, he very well could've lost. Werdum was on a roll at the time. I'll admit that I do believe Cain actually is the better fighter and that he'd definitely win a rematch (I hope it happens before one of them retires, Cain needs his revenge!), but hey, who knows. Anyway, I'm ranting here about random shit that has nothing to do with what I was saying earlier like I usually do.
Another good one is Condit's gameplan against Nick. Most of us really did not enjoy that gameplan but it was the perfect way to beat Nick, especially in those days because Nick was NOT easy to beat at all and still isn't. Condit danced all around Nick that night and picked him apart beautifully, but it obviously wasn't the most entertaining way for that fight to go and I, like most, wish that Condit would've went for it like he normally does. If Condit fought like he normally does against Nick that night, it would've been an instant classic. It would've been fucking insane because really it's such an incredible match-up. Nick would've won though if Condit fought him like he fights most other people, believe it or not. Nick would've outboxed him and taken the decision IMO.
I believe that's why Condit fought the way he did. He knew he wasn't going to finish Nick and he knew he couldn't go to war with him and give Nick the chance to land combinations because he's clearly the superior boxer overall. It wasn't the best fight, but in terms of a great gameplan, that was a damn good gameplan and Condit deserves all the credit in the world for making that shit work for 25 f'n minutes.
--
One more mention goes to GSP in the BJ Penn rematch. Yes, Georges was a greasy fucker that night, but he had a perfect gameplan that night. BJ had no answer whatsoever from the very start because Georges just knew exactly what to do on the feet and how to set up TD's, and how to stay on top and land damaging shots. The grease helped a lot obviously but even without it I believe Georges would've dominated either way.
It wouldn't had been as dominant at first, but BJ would've gassed eventually like always and it would've been all GSP from that point on. It likely would've still been stopped eventually because BJ would've still ended up so exhausted. Great gameplan from Georges as always. He always has perfect gameplans. Literally always. He's by far the most intelligent fighter in MMA history and honestly, he is the GOAT. Not Fedor, not Silva, not Jones, GSP is the fucking GOAT now and that's it.
/rant
Cliffs:
Cain had the perfect gameplan against Junior in the 2nd and 3rd fights.
Condit had a great gameplan against Nick.
GSP had a great gameplan against BJ in the rematch (with or without grease, he would've ended up dominating either way).
GSP always has a great gameplan. He's the most intelligent fighter ever. He's the GOAT.
That is all.
Cain/JDS 2 & 3 deserves a mention IMO.
Overall, Cain actually is the more skilled fighter because he's far more complete/well-rounded and such (great striking, wrestling, ground-and-pound, etc), whereas Junior is mostly just boxing, but these fights were more about Cain's gameplan instead of just pure skill and ability, really. Cain had the perfect gameplan to beat Junior. It was pretty much flawless. He had him completely figured out and I believe those two beatings really laid the blueprint for beating Junior. Stipe utilized a somewhat similar plan in the first fight and also the second fight, only Stipe was far improved and took complete advantage of Junior's holes (backing to the fence too and dropping his hands for some strange reason, thinking he's Roy Jones Jr. or something).
He made him react exactly how he wanted to for basically 25 minutes both times. He'd push him to the fence and Junior expected Cain to shoot, but Cain would throw punches to force Junior to cover up and that would give Cain an opening to either initiate the clinch/double underhooks or shoot for the TD. It worked amazingly in both fights almost the entire time. Junior had no answer at all for this in either fight. The only thing he really showed in the rubber match that was different/improved was the elbows in the clinch. He still had little to nothing while moving backwards in terms of countering ability, and he still just got pushed to the fence way too easily (Cain is also just great at pushing opponents back to the fence anyway), and like I said, he also drops his hands at the fence way too often and tries to move his head.
Cain, as well as Stipe, took complete advantage of these holes in Junior's game. Cain used a masterful gameplan to beat him. He simply outsmarted him pretty much and Junior had absolutely f'n nothing to offer. Cain always comes in with a good gameplan, though. Most of his performances may look like he doesn't actually have a gameplan since most of his fights are very much of the same thing - but if you really pay attention to what he's doing, you can see the different attacks he does in each fight that often work very well. It's a clear sign that him and his team/coach (Javier Mendez) really study the opponent and put together a great gameplan each time. He was doing fine against Werdum until he slowed down halfway through the first or so.
Unfortunately, most 'fans' here don't seem to understand how the altitude works and how it effected Cain's cardio that night. Most fighters on that card actually slowed down much quicker than they usually do. Even Alvarez and Melendez looked more tired than usual after 5 minutes when they're both known for having a decent gas tank. It's really no excuse, though. Werdum was very well prepared that night. Even if Cain's cardio was in check like usual, he very well could've lost. Werdum was on a roll at the time. I'll admit that I do believe Cain actually is the better fighter and that he'd definitely win a rematch (I hope it happens before one of them retires, Cain needs his revenge!), but hey, who knows. Anyway, I'm ranting here about random shit that has nothing to do with what I was saying earlier like I usually do.
Another good one is Condit's gameplan against Nick. Most of us really did not enjoy that gameplan but it was the perfect way to beat Nick, especially in those days because Nick was NOT easy to beat at all and still isn't. Condit danced all around Nick that night and picked him apart beautifully, but it obviously wasn't the most entertaining way for that fight to go and I, like most, wish that Condit would've went for it like he normally does. If Condit fought like he normally does against Nick that night, it would've been an instant classic. It would've been fucking insane because really it's such an incredible match-up. Nick would've won though if Condit fought him like he fights most other people, believe it or not. Nick would've outboxed him and taken the decision IMO.
I believe that's why Condit fought the way he did. He knew he wasn't going to finish Nick and he knew he couldn't go to war with him and give Nick the chance to land combinations because he's clearly the superior boxer overall. It wasn't the best fight, but in terms of a great gameplan, that was a damn good gameplan and Condit deserves all the credit in the world for making that shit work for 25 f'n minutes.
--
One more mention goes to GSP in the BJ Penn rematch. Yes, Georges was a greasy fucker that night, but he had a perfect gameplan that night. BJ had no answer whatsoever from the very start because Georges just knew exactly what to do on the feet and how to set up TD's, and how to stay on top and land damaging shots. The grease helped a lot obviously but even without it I believe Georges would've dominated either way.
It wouldn't had been as dominant at first, but BJ would've gassed eventually like always and it would've been all GSP from that point on. It likely would've still been stopped eventually because BJ would've still ended up so exhausted. Great gameplan from Georges as always. He always has perfect gameplans. Literally always. He's by far the most intelligent fighter in MMA history and honestly, he is the GOAT. Not Fedor, not Silva, not Jones, GSP is the fucking GOAT now and that's it.
/rant
Cliffs:
Cain had the perfect gameplan against Junior in the 2nd and 3rd fights.
Condit had a great gameplan against Nick.
GSP had a great gameplan against BJ in the rematch (with or without grease, he would've ended up dominating either way).
GSP always has a great gameplan. He's the most intelligent fighter ever. He's the GOAT.
That is all.
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Charlie Brennemann over Rick Story comes to mind.
Unfortunately, I'd add Travis Browne, who I hate, over Josh Barnett. Those brutal elbows to Barnett's head as Barnett was trying to take him down were a great technique to negate what we all figured would inevitably happen - Barnett taking Travis down and pounding/subbing him.
Unfortunately, I'd add Travis Browne, who I hate, over Josh Barnett. Those brutal elbows to Barnett's head as Barnett was trying to take him down were a great technique to negate what we all figured would inevitably happen - Barnett taking Travis down and pounding/subbing him.
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luke lost bc he acted like a cocky sob...he could beat Mike into a bloody pulp without any gameplan as long as he takes him seriously and realizes that mike is a damn good fighter and can ktfo him if he lets himself open.
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no
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I'm no Rousey fan, but it's plain to see that she is a superior athletic talent to Holm. Holly has been exposed since then as being a relatively one-dimensional counter striker, and Ronda's moronic gameplan gave her the perfect situation.
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Kampmann vs McFedries - Drew was more physically gifted and was lighting him up but Martin weathered the storm and subbed him via arm triangle
Same vs Alves, Thiago was lighting him up but got finished with a sub in the 3rd.
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Completely disagree with romero being "clearly " more skilled. Whitaker used more sound technique to shut down romero's explosive pot shots in the striking. He had success stopping takedowns through the whole fight not just when romero slowed. All with a bum leg. He read romero very well whenever he tried to explode on.
He absolutely won with skill
He absolutely won with skill
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Bullshit. How's ronda shown her superiority since then?
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Unfair comparison and you know it since Rousey is basically retired.
Since the Rousey fight Holly has gone 1-3 with her only win against Bethe fucking Correira, someone Rousey KO'd in embarrassing fashion in 30 seconds, and Holly's win was preceded by some of the most boring and inactive rounds I've ever seen where both had to be warned several times for inactivity.
Holm was choked out by Miesha, someone Rousey outclassed twice, because Miesha didn't have an infantile aggressive game plan like Ronda did. Then Holly was beaten by two strikers superior to her.
The only good win on Holm's entire resume is Rousey, because Rousey played right into her hands, and was deluded about her own abilities.
Holly is an ultra-reactive counter striker who will almost never initiate an exchange. Rousey blundered into everything in her fight against her.
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So the fact that ronda fights like a moron makes her better? She fought shit competition and holly is a far superior athlete
The top of the division now would crush any version of ronda
The excitement level of holly's style doesn't change who's a better athlete
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Sad but accurate
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Rousey had a terrible game plan borne of her arrogance and the arrogance of her team. It was a winnable fight, as Miesha exposed. Holly becomes ineffective the moment you stop chasing after her.
If by top of the division you mean Nunes and Shevchenko (I think Ronda would beat Pena), I agree. However, both are also far superior to Holm, so the point is moot. Valentina completely outclassed Holly at her own game.
Holly has beaten zero good BWs aside from Ronda herself. I wouldn't try and make an argument based on "top competition". Rousey had a much more impressive run.
Not talking about Holly's excitement level, I'm saying that she's been exposed as a passive one-dimensional counter striker who will do literally nothing if not attacked.
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How has no one said Elkins-Bektic?
D
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Forrest vs Rampage - those low kicks
Rashad vs Rampage - that wrestling against the cage
GSP vs Bisping - that hook to the blinded side
BJ vs Fitch - not a win but BJ took him down right away when everybody waited for a striking fest. Even Fitch said afterwise that he didn't rrain defensive wrestling at all for this camp
Condit vs Diaz - ugly and sad, didn't like it, but that was a perfectly exevuted gameplan
And also not mma but Abu Schaubi vs Cyborg Abreu, totally shut down his game lol
Rashad vs Rampage - that wrestling against the cage
GSP vs Bisping - that hook to the blinded side
BJ vs Fitch - not a win but BJ took him down right away when everybody waited for a striking fest. Even Fitch said afterwise that he didn't rrain defensive wrestling at all for this camp
Condit vs Diaz - ugly and sad, didn't like it, but that was a perfectly exevuted gameplan
And also not mma but Abu Schaubi vs Cyborg Abreu, totally shut down his game lol
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Joanna champion vs Rose
Halloway Vs Aldo
Halloway Vs Aldo
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Ever considered asking Drake Riggs if you could co-write articles with him? You have good understanding of fights and break them down so well, and you do a great job hyping fights as well.
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i see what yur saying. You made a thoughtful argument but... Rousey did try to take holm down and absolutely could not do it for the life of her except once and she could not keep holm down there, so she was just totally screwed and had absolutely no choice but to fight standing and then the end of her career was set in motion.
People have said Rousey had a dumb game plan and shoulda grappled... She tried that. It didn't work. WHen you can't take them down you have to strike. Holm was too squirrely for ronda to pull guard on her and If she tried the butt flop strategy that Werdum tried in the second reem fight, holm never woulda followed her down there and then ronda woulda just lost a decision or just delayed her getting KTFOed by another round or so.
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how is Ronda the better athlete? She is miles ahead in the grappling department but there is no evidence she is the better athlete. Ronda is slower, less dynamic & uncoordinated in her striking
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I agree on all points in respect to her striking, but I feel as though as though that's largely a flaw in the methodology of her trainers and her camp. Apparently, there was minimal hard striking sparring, and we all know the controversies around Edmond's credentials. Ronda was woefully unprepared for a striking match with a legit technical striker like Holly.
Physically, Ronda is extremely fast and strong. Look at how dynamic she is in the scramble, and how explosively she goes for submissions. Medals in judo at both the olympics and world championships are a testament to athleticism. Ronda was improperly trained in MMA, her run was basically achieved entirely through her credentials as an athlete. She ran through her opponents because of her physical superiority, not by being a complete mixed martial artist.
Contrastingly, Holly is extremely technical, but doesn't show the same marks of exceptional athleticism.
