Fighters who are Jack-of-All Trades Master of None lose to the lower weight class fighter

Your example doesnt fit your argument though. Daniel Cormier, a wrestler, KO'd the "jack of all trades" stipe with his hands.

And Stipe lacks the deadly skills of striking? If the ref werent there hed have literally killed 5 contenders in a row with his strikes.

This isnt even circumstantial evidence since 1/2 of your examples contradict your conclusion

Stipe isn't a lethal striker that is feared like Anderson, Hunt, or Nelson.


If Stipe was such a great striker than why did the 'wrestler' DC choose to fight him with......drumroll.....STRIKING!!!!!!


.....and not only fight Stipe with striking but brutally KO him.


And fighters of one discipline can gain another skill to become lethal. Roy Nelson started out as a ground fighter and became known for his famous 1 punch power and regarded as a deadly and feared striker. Yoel Romero was a great wrestler who added brutal KO striking power with his punches, knees, and kicks and became known for his deadly striking game.
 
Right. Liddell then goes on to get knocked out spectacularly over, and over, and over and over again.

Are you kidding with this?

He then went on to immediately defeat Wanderlei Silva unanimously, actually. Again, you're missing the mark by trying to exaggerate how bad Jardine is.
 
Not attacking TS but I loved how back when Nog had his war with Couture it was all 'Minotauro is back!" and when he fought Cain, to discredit Cain it was "Big Nog is over the hill, Cain has pillow fists!"
Lol who were the completely idiots saying Nog was back after beating another shot fighter ?

Nog was already past his prime by the time he got to the UFC. Fedor beat the prime out of him.
 
The bigger point is that guys who are well rounded but don't really excel at anything are typically going to lose unless the other guy has zero wrestling skills.
 
Stipe doesn't have prove and consistent 1 punch KO that made people fear him. His opponents weren't afraid to stand and bang with him.

Mark Hunt's and Roy Nelson's opponent's were afraid to stand and bang with them.


Stipe has one 1 punch KO.......1. And that was of a dumb Werdum who ran right at him full-speed with his hands down.


If Stipe had more that one 1 punch KO than perhaps bu the doesn't. So no, Stipe hasn't KO'd the best strikers in the division. He does have a lot of TKOs and a few KOs from punches but only 1 one punch KO.

When Stipe fought Francis Ngannou everyone said Stipe better use his wrestling so Ngannou the striker doesn't knock his head off....so, there's that.

What a ridiculous post, Stipe has more KOs than Ngannou does. And lol bringing up Nelson, he's been outstruck many times, including by Stipe who is a way better striker period. You're trolling.
 
Stipe isn't a lethal striker that is feared like Anderson, Hunt, or Nelson.


If Stipe was such a great striker than why did the 'wrestler' DC choose to fight him with......drumroll.....STRIKING!!!!!!


.....and not only fight Stipe with striking but brutally KO him.


And fighters of one discipline can gain another skill to become lethal. Roy Nelson started out as a ground fighter and became known for his famous 1 punch power and regarded as a deadly and feared striker. Yoel Romero was a great wrestler who added brutal KO striking power with his punches, knees, and kicks.
So youre saying Cormier is the better striker AND wrestler than Stipe now? I dont buy it, but if what you say is true, then hes just the better fighter. Heavyweight is weak and MMA is flukey, so these "rules" MMA fans make dont count for much. I have noticed this trend though, Anthony Hamilton was a top 10 HW before he faced LHW newcomer Marcel Fortuna, and he KO'd big boy, then lost 2 fights in a row in his natural weight class. I agree that skill matters more than weight, and the fighters named probably won because of skill not size.
 
First off, I'm not saying this is a 100% thing that happens every time, I couldn't fit "many times" in the short title slot. But when you look at top fighters it has happened.

The most famous two that come to mind are HW champ Stipe Miocic losing to LHW champ Daniel Cormier and LHW Forrest Griffin losing to MW Anderson Silva.

I said this in the past before both fights happened, Forrest Griffin and Stipe Miocic are Jack-of-All Trades Master of None fighters. They're like jobbers. They usually have great conditioning (which helps them wear down their opponents), decent chins, and are fairly decent at all facets of MMA, however they lack the lethal skill of either deadly striking or ground game. They aren't 1 hitter quitters with feared striking like Mark Hunt or BJJ wizards with fight ending subs like Demian Maia. Fighters aren't afraid to stand with them or go to the ground with them.

If a Jack-of-All Trades Master of None fought another Jack-of-All Trades Master of None from a lower weight class they would most likely since but since their lower weight class opponents have lethal skills they lose.

When you look at Forrest's and Stipe's record you don't see consistent 1 punch KO's or subs against high level opponents. (Sure you see Stipe's 1 punch KO of a stupid Werdum who ran chin first, hands down into Stipe's fist, but Henry Cejudo could have probably KO'd Werdum running into his fist that day). This is why Anderson beat Forrest, Forrest wasn't a great striker and didn't have 1 punch power but he chose to stand and bang with Anderson, but what else was he gonna do, take him down with his mediocre BJJ skills, and lose with 1 punch. And you saw Stipe lose to a smaller fighter who has more punching power than him. You could even throw Cain Velasquez in here. He doesn't have lethal ground skills or 1 proven 1 punch KO power and normally tires his HW opponents out, it's not hard to gas most HWs, before the inevitable TKO victory. His only 1 punch KO was a battle-worn Big Nog's who's chin was already gone. I also said earlier that if DC and Cain fought DC would win because he has a better chin, superior wrestling, and heavier hands. Once again a case where the lower weight class fighter would beat the heavier weight class fighter, DC the LHW beating Cain the HW. I will note that DC initially fought at HW but that was almost 1/2 a decade ago.

Look at GSP vs. Michael Bisping. GSP the WW beat the MW champ Bisping with a sub. GSP hasn't used a sub in a long time but he has a very good sub game and is lethal with it. Bisping, who's a great all around fighter with great conditioning does not have lethal 1 punch power or a great sub/GnP game and we saw what happened there, Bisping got sub'd in a dominant loss to a lower weight class fighter.

When you see high level fighters who lack a lethal skill such as proven 1 punch power or a lethal ground game you have a good chance of seeing them lose to a fighter from a lower weight class who has said lethal skills.

Agree/Disagree?
Tank Abbott
 
Lol who were the completely idiots saying Nog was back after beating another shot fighter ?

Nog was already past his prime by the time he got to the UFC. Fedor beat the prime out of him.
A mod and a few other people who used to have the Nog bros. in their sigs.
 
He then went on to immediately defeat Wanderlei Silva unanimously, actually. Again, you're missing the mark by trying to exaggerate how bad Jardine is.

This is intellectually dishonest. We're now playing a game called 'stupid or liar'

Chuck ended his career on a 1-5 run. Four of those five losses were spooky, scary, freaky KO's. The type that get you forced into retirement. Jardine was the sole decision win over Chuck, a split decision. Thats how bad Jardine was.

Wand lost to Crocop, Henderson and Liddell, all in a row - only breaking that streak to beat Jardine. He then resumes his career spiral losing to Rampage and Franklin back to back.
 
well yea you got a purple belt HW in BJJ top 15 in the world once below 170 everyones a blackbelt in everything
 
First off, I'm not saying this is a 100% thing that happens every time, I couldn't fit "many times" in the short title slot. But when you look at top fighters it has happened.

The most famous two that come to mind are HW champ Stipe Miocic losing to LHW champ Daniel Cormier and LHW Forrest Griffin losing to MW Anderson Silva.

I said this in the past before both fights happened, Forrest Griffin and Stipe Miocic are Jack-of-All Trades Master of None fighters. They're like jobbers. They usually have great conditioning (which helps them wear down their opponents), decent chins, and are fairly decent at all facets of MMA, however they lack the lethal skill of either deadly striking or ground game. They aren't 1 hitter quitters with feared striking like Mark Hunt or BJJ wizards with fight ending subs like Demian Maia. Fighters aren't afraid to stand with them or go to the ground with them.

If a Jack-of-All Trades Master of None fought another Jack-of-All Trades Master of None from a lower weight class they would most likely since but since their lower weight class opponents have lethal skills they lose.

When you look at Forrest's and Stipe's record you don't see consistent 1 punch KO's or subs against high level opponents. (Sure you see Stipe's 1 punch KO of a stupid Werdum who ran chin first, hands down into Stipe's fist, but Henry Cejudo could have probably KO'd Werdum running into his fist that day). This is why Anderson beat Forrest, Forrest wasn't a great striker and didn't have 1 punch power but he chose to stand and bang with Anderson, but what else was he gonna do, take him down with his mediocre BJJ skills, and lose with 1 punch. And you saw Stipe lose to a smaller fighter who has more punching power than him. You could even throw Cain Velasquez in here. He doesn't have lethal ground skills or 1 proven 1 punch KO power and normally tires his HW opponents out, it's not hard to gas most HWs, before the inevitable TKO victory. His only 1 punch KO was a battle-worn Big Nog's who's chin was already gone. I also said earlier that if DC and Cain fought DC would win because he has a better chin, superior wrestling, and heavier hands. Once again a case where the lower weight class fighter would beat the heavier weight class fighter, DC the LHW beating Cain the HW. I will note that DC initially fought at HW but that was almost 1/2 a decade ago.

Look at GSP vs. Michael Bisping. GSP the WW beat the MW champ Bisping with a sub. GSP hasn't used a sub in a long time but he has a very good sub game and is lethal with it. Bisping, who's a great all around fighter with great conditioning does not have lethal 1 punch power or a great sub/GnP game and we saw what happened there, Bisping got sub'd in a dominant loss to a lower weight class fighter.

When you see high level fighters who lack a lethal skill such as proven 1 punch power or a lethal ground game you have a good chance of seeing them lose to a fighter from a lower weight class who has said lethal skills.

Agree/Disagree?

All I got from your thread is average fighters lose to GOATs
 
All I got from your thread is average fighters lose to GOATs

Many say that Stipe is the GOAT UFC HW because he hold the most consecutive UFC HW wins and some have said he's the greatest HW.

So, pretty sure Stipe's not considered an average fighter.
 
This is intellectually dishonest. We're now playing a game called 'stupid or liar'

Chuck ended his career on a 1-5 run. Four of those five losses were spooky, scary, freaky KO's. The type that get you forced into retirement. Jardine was the sole decision win over Chuck, a split decision. Thats how bad Jardine was.

Wand lost to Crocop, Henderson and Liddell, all in a row - only breaking that streak to beat Jardine. He then resumes his career spiral losing to Rampage and Franklin back to back.


Agree. Chuck should have retired a lot earlier than he did. I thought he was gonna get brain damage.
 

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