Eye gouging against a trained grappler is easier said than done. (Share your experiences)

Eye gouging works, but of course it isnt a magical tech. Like a punch or elbow, having positional advantage helps a ton. If someone try to atk my eyes while Im on mount I wouldnt worry much, but If Im bottom half it is way more dangerous.
 
For that defence to work, you would need to defend the guillotine with one hand while going for the groin with the other, especially if they were good at it. There is video evidence on this thread that it can be done however to stop the choke, so that dismisses the idea in some grappling circles that these types of attacks can't be used to prevent some submission holds.

The other thing is that in a rolling or sparring situation, no one will be fully going for the groin or eye attacks for obvious reasons, whereas you tend to really put the submission holds on, so this also makes it harder to determine the point at which it would render the submission hold not viable.
There is a middle ground between the fantasy of illegal strikes being an automatic win whatever the situation, vs the equal fantasy that they can't be used effectively with intent to end the fight or break certain holds or positions.
It looks like the gracie's are going to release an instructional that address how to stay safe from groin strikes and eye gouges while grappling in a no rules scenario.
I know this is just a preview but what do you think about it?


 
It looks like the gracie's are going to release an instructional that address how to stay safe from groin strikes and eye gouges while grappling in a no rules scenario.
I know this is just a preview but what do you think about it?



Hats off to them for doing these videos. It's actually long overdue, and I wonder if these type of discussions on here have even contributed to them making them. It's at least a progression to acknowledging the very real risks and talking about strategies for defending against it, rather than what used to be the standard 'defence' on here, which was to laugh them off or make some jokes about Kung Fu and deadly attacks etc...all of which was actually just a subconscious cope from the realisation that a determined attacker, especially one who knows a thing or two about grappling can use these methods to nullify a large part of your game in a street/beach situation.

Even from the brief reel they have put up the risks are very clear and present. I like their general strategic advice that "whether you're on the top or bottom, its overlooks for punch and gouging protection, and underhooks for groin protection".
This at least is some general principles for addressing the issue, although what I also take from that is since you can't overhook and undertook at the same time on both sides, one area will always be open and vulnerable to attack unless you can finish it.
 
It looks like the gracie's are going to release an instructional that address how to stay safe from groin strikes and eye gouges while grappling in a no rules scenario.
I know this is just a preview but what do you think about it?




At the basic level, overhooks to defend eye gouges, underhooks to defend groin strikes, this makes total sense and is very actionable. I also like that they're pulling top guy down to nullify their ability to strike, same as you'd do in MMA. Now I'm not a fan of the bullshit marketing and Rener can go eat a dick, but a lot of the Gracie Jiu Jitsu principles for self-defense is good stuff and has always been relevant.
 
since you can't overhook and undertook at the same time on both sides, one area will always be open and vulnerable to attack unless you can finish it.

Lol there's a counter for every counter, and you're always open somewhere. Now I'm imagining a 3 Stooges-esque grappling sequence where top guy is feinting alternating dick punch and eye poke attempts with either hand, with bottom guy trying to counter with underhooks and overhooks until he finally succumbs to a perfectly timed ballbag destruction that gets past his frames.

But I don't see top guy having the wherewithal to do that skillfully unless he's at least purple belt in Dick Poke Fu. But if he is, maybe BJJ alone isn't enough.
 
Hats off to them for doing these videos. It's actually long overdue, and I wonder if these type of discussions on here have even contributed to them making them. It's at least a progression to acknowledging the very real risks and talking about strategies for defending against it, rather than what used to be the standard 'defence' on here, which was to laugh them off or make some jokes about Kung Fu and deadly attacks etc...all of which was actually just a subconscious cope from the realisation that a determined attacker, especially one who knows a thing or two about grappling can use these methods to nullify a large part of your game in a street/beach situation.

Even from the brief reel they have put up the risks are very clear and present. I like their general strategic advice that "whether you're on the top or bottom, its overlooks for punch and gouging protection, and underhooks for groin protection".
This at least is some general principles for addressing the issue, although what I also take from that is since you can't overhook and undertook at the same time on both sides, one area will always be open and vulnerable to attack unless you can finish it.
It's a good answer to the problem for sure.

The important detail that needs to be addressed is that attack and defense need to be happening together. Over/under while of balancing them. Defend and immediately look for sweeps. If you can Defend, get them off balance, and sweep then you'll be in a much better place. Defending from the top is much easier than from bottom
 
Hats off to them for doing these videos. It's actually long overdue, and I wonder if these type of discussions on here have even contributed to them making them. It's at least a progression to acknowledging the very real risks and talking about strategies for defending against it, rather than what used to be the standard 'defence' on here, which was to laugh them off or make some jokes about Kung Fu and deadly attacks etc...all of which was actually just a subconscious cope from the realisation that a determined attacker, especially one who knows a thing or two about grappling can use these methods to nullify a large part of your game in a street/beach situation.

Even from the brief reel they have put up the risks are very clear and present. I like their general strategic advice that "whether you're on the top or bottom, its overlooks for punch and gouging protection, and underhooks for groin protection".
This at least is some general principles for addressing the issue, although what I also take from that is since you can't overhook and undertook at the same time on both sides, one area will always be open and vulnerable to attack unless you can finish it.
I have always thought one the best counter to an eye gouge attempt when you are on top (eg. mount or side control) is to circle your head to the outside of the gouging arm as he tries to reach you and seize the opportunity to lock an arm triangle.
It looks like it's what Rener is also showing at 00:15-00:18 in the preview, altough the clip cut away before he locks the choke
 
At the basic level, overhooks to defend eye gouges, underhooks to defend groin strikes, this makes total sense and is very actionable. I also like that they're pulling top guy down to nullify their ability to strike, same as you'd do in MMA. Now I'm not a fan of the bullshit marketing and Rener can go eat a dick, but a lot of the Gracie Jiu Jitsu principles for self-defense is good stuff and has always been relevant.
High mount will keep you safe from the master grabbing your Hog or anyone gouging your eyes from bottom. regardless, if person A is mounting person B and they want to try and squeeze the peaches my moneys on the guy on top still winning via vicious elbows.
 
It looks like the gracie's are going to release an instructional that address how to stay safe from groin strikes and eye gouges while grappling in a no rules scenario.
I know this is just a preview but what do you think about it?



They are literally putting themselves in the position to be attacked from there whilst ignoring every other part of JJ. Oh you got eye gouged by sitting straight up with no control? Same with the old school gracie knee block that is only a transitioning position in mma ...

Just do better JJ. Come on. If they need to show this as a special video, their combatives program sucks.It's just another money grab from something they already teach in their curriculum already.
 
High mount will keep you safe from the master grabbing your Hog or anyone gouging your eyes from bottom. regardless, if person A is mounting person B and they want to try and squeeze the peaches my moneys on the guy on top still winning via vicious elbows.

I am inclined to agree but TBF I've never encountered (or fought) a purple belt or higher in Dick Poke Fu.
 
I am inclined to agree but TBF I've never encountered (or fought) a purple belt or higher in Dick Poke Fu.
You posted this vid, what grade would you give this guy?

Even if you've already closed the distance and are attempting a sub, a dick grab from half guard can be a game changer, as this vid from a few years ago illustrates:

 
You posted this vid, what grade would you give this guy?

An excellent example. Top guy is at best a blue belt in Dick Poke Fu and possibly white with 3 stripes. Although he shows basic proficiency, he attempts no feints and does not threaten any eye gouges but still takes nearly 20 seconds after being grounded to achieve the coveted "Aaaahhh!!!" His technique is very basic.

The founder of Dick Poke Fu (his name is shrouded in mystery) modified and refined the crude, strength-based techniques of Ball Krak Do so they could work for the smaller man. He also incorporated guile and deception into attack chains to make them more effective against brawlers.
 
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Eye gouging will not easily nullify any grappling attempt against a trained grappler vs. untrained if the trained guy tries top position. If the untrained guy reaches for an eye gouge from bottom of mount or side control he leaves himself open to armtraps, head & arm chokes, joint locks.
 
High mount will keep you safe from the master grabbing your Hog or anyone gouging your eyes from bottom. regardless, if person A is mounting person B and they want to try and squeeze the peaches my moneys on the guy on top still winning via vicious elbows.

Also their arms will be pretty busy blocking if you're dropping punches on their face in high mount.

People like to ignore that shit in these self defense rabbit holes.

And if some street opponent is really trying to rake or gouge eyes, finger breaks are on the table from dominant positions.
 
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