International Elon Musk again supports CCP takeover of Taiwan. Taiwan foreign minister issues rebuke

[Jack V Savage]

Its almost as if capitalists like fascism.

That guy actually claims to be a left-wing anarchist, but he has a really strange love for dictators for an anarchist.

 

[AristotleAmadopolis]

Taiwan is officially the Republic of China (R.O.C) . While China is People's Republic of China (P.R.C). There's 2 Koreas but both are seperate.

If China believes the US will defend Taiwan I do not think there is going to be a war because it would be suicide for the CCP. There may be a war if China believes it can take Taiwan and the US will not get involved.

yes. and that is why we say korea and the other korea. it's less confusing that way.

i had also added an edit to my previous post:
also. i might be wrong, but i thought the us recognized the one china policy? so how does that actually work? if other countries are already on record as accepting china's policy?


why would it be suicide for china if us got involved? isnt that hubris?

 

[MicroBrew]

yes. and that is why we say korea and the other korea. it's less confusing that way.

i had also added an edit to my previous post:
also. i might be wrong, but i thought the us recognized the one china policy? so how does that actually work? if other countries are already on record as accepting china's policy?


why would it be suicide for china if us got involved? isnt that hubris?

US policy goes back to Nixon trying to woo mainland China, which was part of the Western anti Soviet strategy. So the US threw Taiwan under the bus.

America maintains a strategy of ambguity regarding the 1 China, to placate China, but the facts on the ground is that Taiwan is an independent country. Bush Junior, in the early 2000s, said the US will defend Taiwan if China attacked.

China has not shown itself to be on par with the US in military capability. If it does not go nuclear the Chinese military will still be decimated if they tried to engage US forces. Such a massive loss of forces will cause major internal issues in the mainland. Their economy will be screwed.

 

[AristotleAmadopolis]

US policy goes back to Nixon trying to woo mainland China, which was part of the Western anti Soviet strategy. So the US threw Taiwan under the bus.

America maintains a strategy of ambguity regarding the 1 China, to placate China, but the facts on the ground is that Taiwan is an independent country. Bush Junior, in the early 2000s, said the US will defend Taiwan if China attacked.

China has not shown itself to be on par with the US in military capability. If it does not go nuclear the Chinese military will still be decimated if they tried to engage US forces. Such a massive loss of forces will cause major internal issues in the mainland. Their economy will be screwed.

most of us thought rockhold was gonna destroy bisping and look what happened there.

why dont us just formally recognize taiwan? it seems time.

 

[MicroBrew]

most of us thought rockhold was gonna destroy bisping and look what happened there.

why dont us just formally recognize taiwan? it seems time.

Bush Jr. was not a fan of the strategic ambiguity doctrine of the US establishment.

President Bush, offering a more explicit commitment to Taiwan than his recent predecessors, said in a television interview broadcast today that if the island came under attack from China, he would order ''whatever it took'' to help Taiwan defend itself.

Mr. Bush did not go so far as to say he would send American forces into battle with China. During his presidential campaign, however, he questioned the wisdom of the policy of maintaining ''strategic ambiguity'' about how the United States would react if hostilities broke out across the Taiwan Strait, and said repeatedly that, in contrast, his administration would be ''clear about Taiwan.''

While the 1979 Taiwan Relations Act commits the United States to help Taiwan defend itself, presidents have deliberately kept vague how they would respond in the case of an armed conflict. The policy was designed so as not to encourage Taiwan to be bolder in its own statements, and to contain the political factions on the island that have argued for declaring independence, a move China says would prompt an armed response.

Asked on ABC's ''Good Morning America'' if the United States had an obligation to defend Taiwan if it was attacked by China, Mr. Bush replied: ''Yes, we do, and the Chinese must understand that. Yes, I would.''


The interviewer, Charlie Gibson, pressed further, asking, ''With the full force of American military?''

Mr. Bush said, ''Whatever it took to help Taiwan defend theirself.'' He did not elaborate.

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/26/world/us-would-defend-taiwan-bush-says.html

 

[rob mafia]

how does the world change if china takes over other china?

the vast majority of euv machines go tits up, the entire semiconductor industry goes into disarray, and if you thought the so-called "chip shortage" during covid was a thing, wait for the actual chip shortage.

get ready for $5k ps5s, $10k nvidia 4080s, $5k iphones, used cars going for 2x that of new ones right now...

 

[tramendous]

most of us thought rockhold was gonna destroy bisping and look what happened there.

why dont us just formally recognize taiwan? it seems time.

Because that might compel China to attack which the US might not want and the US has made it public they want to support the status quo since the 70s

 

[giusti825]

There is no regime so fucked up that this guy won't carry their water. Assad and Putin are good boys who didn't do anything wrong, and now Xi invading Taiwan would be them just taking back what rightfully belongs to them. Sickening.

You're the guy who still believes Assad used chemical weapons after he had already won the battle, right?

I'm not carrying anyone's water. It is the official position of the United States government that Taiwan is a part of China. We have no embassy in Taiwan.

Aside from a moral argument to defend Taiwan, from a purely amoral POV it is in our interest to oppose Chinese belligerence and expansionism.

The US doesn't need to fight a war, it just needs to make it clear that it will fight. If everyone knows the US will come to Taiwan's aid, that acts as a deterence. If Chna knows they will have to take on the full might of the US military, they will rethink invading Taiwan, because they know it is total suicide to engage the US military in open combat.

America is the best at logistics and supply. Okinawa is pretty close to Taiwan.

Chinese belligerence and expansionism?? Who has China invaded and illegally occupied? Iraq? Syria? Somalia? Afghanistan?..... Oh wait.... That wasn't China. The projection is strong in this post.

It is a waste of taxpayer money to start a war with China. China has no intention of attacking the United States. There is no moral justification to attack them.

 

[nixkid]

It's kinda of interesting how the right has transformed from America Fuck Yeah, blow everything up to wanting to tuck and run from every conflict.

From chads to complete bitches in 20 years.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

Well Tesla needs a lot of chips from Taiwan no doubt being a cheerleader for China is not the best idea for his business.

His business relies on china far more than Taiwan , hell if China takes over it would just secure his supply

 

[Edmond_Dantes]

ah man, we so need Brackis for this thread.

 

[nixkid]

Food, energy, and raw materials. Naval blockade on China and they're toast within a year or 2 at most.

They have been stockpiling food for a couple of years now. The writing is on the wall, they are preparing for war.

It like when Putin started hoarding currency and gold reserves.

 

[AristotleAmadopolis]

the vast majority of euv machines go tits up, the entire semiconductor industry goes into disarray, and if you thought the so-called "chip shortage" during covid was a thing, wait for the actual chip shortage.

get ready for $5k ps5s, $10k nvidia 4080s, $5k iphones, used cars going for 2x that of new ones right now...

shit. so stock up on ps5s to resell?

it would only be temporary though? werent they gonna build more factories in the states?

 

[The Catch-Wrestler]

It's a self-fullfilling prophecy.
He is saying that to support the CCP. He is a well known CCP shill. He is only saying it because he has major business interests in China.

And what are you going to do if China invades Taiwan? Change your profile picture to support "solidarity" I'm sure... because you aren't going to fight, are you?

Quit pretending like you care more than anyone else, because you don't. You aren't fighting and dying to protect Taiwan, so quit pretending like China absorbing Taiwan is somehow representative of an assault on the western world, where somehow there becomes a moral imperative to protect the sovereignty of Taiwan.

China and it's history with Taiwan goes quite far back and the situation is far more nuanced than you could likely ever understand, let alone accurately convey. Elon Musk shared his opinion on the situation, and surprisingly it seems quite grounded in reality. So in a way, it makes sense that you'd take issue with it.

 

[rob mafia]

shit. so stock up on ps5s to resell?

it would only be temporary though? werent they gonna build more factories in the states?

if by temporary, you mean like... 10-20 years, then sure. maybe less if asml wants to rapidly expand or allow other companies to use their ip.

it takes a looooooooong time to build fabs. only one company makes the lithography machines needed and they're backlogged. the bottlenecks would cripple ~everything. people have no idea just how many fabs are in taiwan. it's not just leading edge, but volume.

 

[Mack Yancy]

You know that’s literally a thing that Biden passed about a year ago? While you guys have been preoccupied with culture war garbage he’s been busy reshaping our country so it’s less dependent on the rest of the world

I want to hear the rebuttal to this. Where is @nostradumbass with a chart?

 

[Yehudim]

most of us thought rockhold was gonna destroy bisping and look what happened there.

why dont us just formally recognize taiwan? it seems time.

Formally doing it could be a casus belli for China. If we were ever to do it, it should have been when they were much weaker. That’s only with hindsight, though, because when China was much weaker, they were much nicer to us.

I personally love this double speak where the president says in no unclear terms that we would defend Taiwan, but the state department says he misspoke. We get to keep Taiwan, make it clear, piss off China, and pretend like we didn’t do anything.

 

[AristotleAmadopolis]

Formally doing it could be a casus belli for China. If we were ever to do it, it should have been when they were much weaker. That’s only with hindsight, though, because when China was much weaker, they were much nicer to us.

I personally love this double speak where the president says in no unclear terms that we would defend Taiwan, but the state department says he misspoke. We get to keep Taiwan, make it clear, piss off China, and pretend like we didn’t do anything.

i guess there is a benefit to having a demented moron in charge ha

 

[rob mafia]

how about we just build our own computer chips instead?

cuz we literally can't. tsmc, alone, has ~60% of all volume and 90% of all leading edge volume. and there are other fabs in taiwan, too.

biden and other ignoramuses think we can just spend money and magic shit into existence. but the equipment needed is very finite... and mostly already in taiwan.

 

[MicroBrew]

And what are you going to do if China invades Taiwan? Change your profile picture to support "solidarity" I'm sure... because you aren't going to fight, are you?

Quit pretending like you care more than anyone else, because you don't. You aren't fighting and dying to protect Taiwan, so quit pretending like China absorbing Taiwan is somehow representative of an assault on the western world, where somehow there becomes a moral imperative to protect the sovereignty of Taiwan.

What's the point of anyone making threads here? Do you think making a thread of a particular subject means this person is trying to say they care the most ?

China and it's history with Taiwan goes quite far back and the situation is far more nuanced than you could likely ever understand, let alone accurately convey. Elon Musk shared his opinion on the situation, and surprisingly it seems quite grounded in reality. So in a way, it makes sense that you'd take issue with it.

Chinese gov. map from the 60s or 50s did not show Taiwan as part of the PRC. The CCP has never controlled Taiwan. Don't think saying "nuanced" somehow makes you a wise dude who knows it all.

Elon Musk was shilling for the CCP. He wasn't making an observation, he was trying to justify the CCP position because he has investments in China, and kissing the CCP ass is his modus operandi. This was not the first time he has kissed their ass, for his personal benefit. The Taiwanese foreign minister took issue with Elon's comment; do you think he is not grounded in reality.