Efficient Toe Hold

[Chandler sama]

I thought this was a good variation. I played with it a little yesterday is it was more efficient, but IMO it was harder to get the grip. The only thing I'm wondering is if this is IBJJF legal. It doesn't seem like it should be illegal, but it seems like they're always coming up with new rules to stop people from doing leglocks, so who knows.

 

[yetanother]

but it seems like they're always coming up with new rules to stop people from doing leglocks, so who knows.

None of the rule changes in the last few years hindered leg locking.

 

[lechien]

He is incorrect for calling a toe hold.
I the same as heel hook.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

He is incorrect for calling a toe hold.
I the same as heel hook.

Yep..he’s grabbing the heel, not the toes, thus is a hh not a tie hold

 

[ChainFlow]

None of the rule changes in the last few years hindered leg locking.

Didn't the leg lace / double ankle lock from 4/11 just get banned?

 

[yetanother]

Didn't the leg lace / double ankle lock from 4/11 just get banned?

Attacking the trapped leg from a leg reap position was always highly illegal.

 

[ChainFlow]

Attacking the trapped leg from a leg reap position was always highly illegal.

And yet that submission was only recently explicitly banned after being effectively allowed for a long while.

 

[yetanother]

And yet that submission was only recently explicitly banned after being effectively allowed for a long while.

The rules book doesn't mention it and never has. In regards to verbal IBJJF traditions I don't take part in any ref seminars as I refuse to referee IBJJF competitions as matter of principle as I consider the rules a convoluted stalling encouraging mess.

 

[lechien]

And yet that submission was only recently explicitly banned after being effectively allowed for a long while.

I don't get it.

You cannot reap in ibjjf so why you would even mention it

 

[EGDM]

He is incorrect for calling a toe hold.
I the same as heel hook.

Yep..he’s grabbing the heel, not the toes, thus is a hh not a tie hold

Not necessarily, depending on how you define the techniques. In a toehold the toes are pivoting around the knee-ankle axis. In a heel hook, the heel is pivoting around the knee-toe axis. Even with the modified grip Ian appears to be driving the submission through his elbow and driving Bernardo's toes. If he were holding his elbow fixed and pulling up on the heel, I'd agree with you.

I trained with Ian for several years and I'm pretty sure I've seen him do this in IBJJF competition. It's still a fine line with that grip and personally I wouldn't want to risk disqualification by a ref who disagreed with my interpretation.

And yet that submission was only recently explicitly banned after being effectively allowed for a long while.

Do you mean turning inward on a straight ankle from SLX? That was made explicit a few years back. Reaping has always been disallowed; direction of attack is irrelevant.

 

[Cappy Goodtime]

Do you mean turning inward on a straight ankle from SLX? That was made explicit a few years back. Reaping has always been disallowed; direction of attack is irrelevant.

If you go for a kneebar, your legs are technically in a "reaping" position, but the way you are facing causes no inward pressure, so from there you can go to the cloverleaf without ever technically "reaping".


I think...

 

[rmongler]

None of the rule changes in the last few years hindered leg locking.

The rules in the ibjjf are specifically designed to hinder leg locking.

 

[selfcritical]

Attacking the trapped leg from a leg reap position was always highly illegal.

The pressure in 4/11 is literally going in the opposite direction from "reaping". It's the exact same knee pressure as the 50/50- you just are able to hide your feet and more easily influence the "free" leg

 

[BJJ_Rage]

fucking hate ibjjf rules.

 

[EGDM]

If you go for a kneebar, your legs are technically in a "reaping" position, but the way you are facing causes no inward pressure, so from there you can go to the cloverleaf without ever technically "reaping".


I think...

Reaping is defined as "when one of the athletes places his thigh behind the leg of his opponent and passes his calf on top of the opponent’s body above the knee, placing his foot beyond the vertical midline of the opponent’s body and applying pressure on his opponents knee from the outside, true <sic> inside, while keeping the foot of the leg at risk stuck between his hip and armpit". Kneebar position is definitely not reaping, and if you lose control and they spin it's still typically not reaping because the foot isn't trapped.

That said, it's still a dumb rule.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

If you go for a kneebar, your legs are technically in a "reaping" position, but the way you are facing causes no inward pressure, so from there you can go to the cloverleaf without ever technically "reaping".


I think...

The saddle is a legal position in IBJJF, you just can't attack the trapped leg unless you turn all the way over for a kneebar. I've heard conflicting info about the legality of the Texas Cloverleaf. Davi Ramos submits Kayron Gracie with the TC from the saddle under IBJJF rules in this match: