Do people really think the shoulder crank jones did was "CHEAP"?

[Dramacydal]

not a Jones fan but that was a legit move. Aoki snapped a guys arm with something similar and people thought it was awesome. Double standard, but then again Aoki huggers are probably the world's worst type of hugger.

Aoki has nuthuggers? ... Underground to the max.

 

[Vegesus44]

I don't think the crank was cheap, but those eyes pokes were very cheap and illegal as well.

 

[Space]

Palhares never really did anything dirty that I saw

Oh, so you're one of those people.

 

[Kyle1991]

If it isn't against the rules it isn't dirty

 

[Donald Keys]

I'm fine with people thinking it was cheap, and so is Jones. I don't agree with his excessive fingers in the face stuff, but if you're not using everything in your arsenal to win a fight, someone else will and will get the glory for it too.

 

[Cro Cop Is Back]

It's a fight and it's a legal move.

 

[Belmont Bomber]

Why has this been bumped ? Is liverpunchko still harping on?

 

[Rampage_Jackson]

I just sit back and make mental notes of all the morons who cry about this move. I want to make sure I never take an opinion of theirs seriously in the future.

 

[Terraformer]

I don't think the crank was cheap, I actually was pretty surprised when he cranked it the second time and how much damage it did. The eye pokes throughout the fight on the other hand were cheap.

 

[sportkillergreg]

It certainly wasn't good sportsmanship.

Calling it a sub attempt is disingenuous as Glover wasn't given an opportunity to submit. It was a high speed joint manipulation and Jone's only intention was to damage Glover's shoulder.

ya that's what i dont like about it, the high speed joint manipulation aspect of it. You cant crank someone's fingers like that, why should you be allowed to do yank someone's shoulder like that?

 

[Belmont Bomber]

Dirty fighter or not ..... New and innovative ways to defeat or tacticly beat a fighter is for me exiting and a joy to see

 

[Stargazer Rex]

No but those eye pokes

 

[Belmont Bomber]

ya that's what i dont like about it, the high speed joint manipulation aspect of it. You cant crank someone's fingers like that, why should you be allowed to do yank someone's shoulder like that?

Well do we need to ban arm bars and leg locks and most submissions.... Seriously ef off you pansy.... Get a clue!

 

[Uncommon Valor]

It's Jones we're talking about, here.

 

[pincmil]

This sport isn't about loving each other really; it's about damage. Maybe he thought he could tap him with it, Mir did that in some variant.

A punch to the chin could reduce a man's life by years or potentially cause serious brain damage which will cause immense future suffering for the fighter and their families. It's a sport, but it's a rough sport with a lot of physical consequences.

 

[Wayweary]

I heard the first 4 minutes of it and saw nothing earth shattering.
he speaks how Glover fought through his injuries. (thanks for sharing though)

please let me know if there are anything specific you'd want me to hear in that interview

First, he gives JJ credit for hurting Glover's shoulder. He talks about hurting each other being different from disrespecting each other (like elbows, hitting the liver and the shoulder crank) in "the toughest sport in the world." He said Jones is
"unbelievable as a champion" and "such a martial artist." Then he talks about the excellent comradery and mutual respect between the two inside and outside of the cage that was "unbelievable to watch" because of "how much respect each one of them had." He mentioned the mouth piece point that I made earlier (Jones stopping so Glover could replace it three times) and how much sportsmanship that showed on the part of Jones.

At this point it is like you are willfully ignoring what you don't want to hear. I gave you a five minute section to listen to as you can see by the start and stop point (2:30 - 7:30). Come on, man.

As far as your last reply that I didn't quote and respond to, there were so many instances where you seemed to totally miss what I was talking about that I really didn't feel like taking the time to untangle the knot of your misunderstandings. Also, I don't feel like repeating the points I've already made. I'll let my words (and this video, for what it's worth) stand on their own and you can think what you want.

 

[Wayweary]

Yeah, some people crank them in a fight, but even then. Take Jones vs. Vitor, for example: Vitor slapped that arm bar on quickly, but Jones could have still tapped. Likewise, he gave Vitor the opportunity to tap with his Americana.

Most guys don't go for the break. Just look at the top BJJ black belts in MMA, guys like Maia, Jacare, Werdum...do they go for the break with their subs? Not really.

Now look at guys like Palhares, Aoki, Mir; what do they have in common? They're dicks when it comes to subs. I honestly think Jones wants to join their company.

You are so wrong about submission attempts in actual full contact competition. You don't just apply it gradually as you would in sparring. Actually, in sparring you often don't even do that much: you just lock up the position and the other guy concedes without trying to struggle through it. If you were to just lock up position and expect the other guy to realize you have it and say, "ok, yeah you got me," you are going to have a bad time in a real fight and people will consistently get out of subs they wouldn't otherwise be able to. In full contact, you apply it as quickly and as forcefully as you can manage. It is up to them to tap before they receive an injury.

 

[thatone**]

Post fight press conference son.

He was takking about doing it in a wrestling match where the goak is not to do damage. That was a mma fight.

 

[Shaddows]

First, he gives JJ credit for hurting Glover's shoulder. He talks about hurting each other being different from disrespecting each other (like elbows, hitting the liver and the shoulder crank) in "the toughest sport in the world." He said Jones is
"unbelievable as a champion" and "such a martial artist." Then he talks about the excellent comradery and mutual respect between the two inside and outside of the cage that was "unbelievable to watch" because of "how much respect each one of them had." He mentioned the mouth piece point that I made earlier (Jones stopping so Glover could replace it three times) and how much sportsmanship that showed on the part of Jones.

At this point it is like you are willfully ignoring what you don't want to hear. I gave you a five minute section to listen to as you can see by the start and stop point (2:30 - 7:30). Come on, man.

As far as your last reply that I didn't quote and respond to, there were so many instances where you seemed to totally miss what I was talking about that I really didn't feel like taking the time to untangle the knot of your misunderstandings. Also, I don't feel like repeating the points I've already made. I'll let my words (and this video, for what it's worth) stand on their own and you can think what you want.

hahaha I don't get you.
I already think what I want.
You also think what you want.

You are the one not agreeing I can think for my own, which is funny and sad at the same time.

I am not the only one saying it. Look how many people said they consider it dirty.

As I pointed out, I don't think one thing along brings you the full picture. It is not a specific thing. it is the fact Jon is willing to use those techniques that others don't use; because he does not see the penalty of doing it.

People like you (or so many others) that have an orgasm every time he tries to do something without stopping and thinking: "Wait, is this something other people do not do... why is it?"
That is what I find it even funnier. The fact you don't think so (which is fine) but you feel the entitlement to tell me what I can think of or not.


Look at the video I showed you!
Alexander Gustafsson talking about it. He also said he doesn't think Jon does this because he is a dirty fighter, but he does think he (at some point) needs to stop doing it, because "it is not right".

But whatever, as I said before and I think I proved my point.
Many fighters think it is dirty or borderline dirty (like Jon himself said, " moves that are frowned upon").
The problem is, if they speak against it, they are marginalized (like Rampage was) ridiculed or sound like excuses for their losses. But you obviously know that already.

But you think what you will. Close your eyes and your ears and shout out loud so you don't hear it.

I just want to see once, if he does injure another fighter badly due to an eye-poke or some other questionable move, if you and the rest will come to support him or call for his head. Because as we saw with Toquinho (and you explained very well), the second something happen, they will turn on him.

And like I said before. I do think he can beat every guy he's beaten without having to resort to these "questionable" tactics.

it is what it is.
Good effort though!

 

[Wayweary]

hahaha I don't get you.
I already think what I want.
You also think what you want.

You are the one not agreeing I can think for my own, which is funny and sad at the same time.

Stop with the victim mentality; it's pathetic. Never once have I said that you can't think what you want and have repeatedly said the opposite. Of course you can think what you want, and when I say at the end of my post "think what you want," the implication is that of course you can think what you want, and you can be wrong, too. Isn't that what you go on to say about me in no uncertain terms? So why do you think you can act like I'm trying to violate your right to an opinion because I disagree with it? Come the fuck on.

I am not the only one saying it. Look how many people said they consider it dirty.

As I pointed out, I don't think one thing along brings you the full picture. It is not a specific thing. it is the fact Jon is willing to use those techniques that others don't use; because he does not see the penalty of doing it.

People like you (or so many others) that have an orgasm every time he tries to do something without stopping and thinking: "Wait, is this something other people do not do... why is it?"
That is what I find it even funnier. The fact you don't think so (which is fine) but you feel the entitlement to tell me what I can think of or not.


Look at the video I showed you!
Alexander Gustafsson talking about it. He also said he doesn't think Jon does this because he is a dirty fighter, but he does think he (at some point) needs to stop doing it, because "it is not right".

But whatever, as I said before and I think I proved my point.
Many fighters think it is dirty or borderline dirty (like Jon himself said, " moves that are frowned upon").
The problem is, if they speak against it, they are marginalized (like Rampage was) ridiculed or sound like excuses for their losses. But you obviously know that already.

How does me saying "think what you want" and your accusation that I "feel the entitlement to tell [you] what I can think of or not" jive? How does me saying, you can have your own opinion translate to me trampling on your right to have an opinion?

Yeah, JJ said it is frowned on which is observation of fact, not tacit admission that it should be frowned on. Can you spot the difference? He also said the crank is dirty in wrestling but MMA is far from wrestling, another distinction I wish you would notice. Many may think things are dirty (like you) and as seen in the video I posted which you continue to ignore, Hackelman is apparently of a different mind, as am I. That doesn't make it fact in either case. Do you see how appealing to authority is pointless?

But you think what you will. Close your eyes and your ears and shout out loud so you don't hear it.

And here you tell me to "think what I will." This is very similar to what I said to you (except you go on to call me obstinate here) and you seized on it, saying,

"I already think what I want. You also think what you want. You are the one not agreeing I can think for my own, which is funny and sad at the same time." If I said that right back at you, wouldn't you think it was incredibly whiny? So why do you say it? How have I said or implied that you can't "think for [yourself]?"

I just want to see once, if he does injure another fighter badly due to an eye-poke or some other questionable move, if you and the rest will come to support him or call for his head. Because as we saw with Toquinho (and you explained very well), the second something happen, they will turn on him.

And like I said before. I do think he can beat every guy he's beaten without having to resort to these "questionable" tactics.

it is what it is.
Good effort though!

I already said I find the potential for injury in this sport lamentable but that it is fairly intrinsic to it as well. If someone is injured, I'm unhappy about that but I understand that it is part of the game and I don't blame the people involved unless it is a foul. An intentional or negligent foul is outrageous but failing that, it is just a part of the sport.


Edit: Another quote from Hackelman with the news that Glover has a torn labrum from the crank:
"It's unbelievable to think of going five rounds with Jones like that. And we're not taking anything away from Jones because he caused the injury. Both the eye and the shoulder. So kudos to Jones for doing that. They are both legal moves. He didn't try to hurt Glover intentionally, he did what he had to do to win."