Current champs vs each champ up and/or down 1 weight class

[MacGregor]

How does the title picture look?
HW DC
LHW DC
MW DC
WW Conor
LW Conor
FW Conor
BW Max
FW TJ

 

[loisestrad]

Stipe knocks out DC, now that his chin has been retired by Jones.
DC stays champ.
DC can't make 185
Conor beats Woodley
Conor stays champ
Conor beats Max
TJ beats Max
TJ beats MM

 

[SirKratos]

HW Stipe
LHW Stipe
MW DC
WW Whitaker
LW Woodley
FW Ferguson
BW Holloway
FLW TJ

Summary: Its not a very well thought out thread

 

[MacGregor]

HW Stipe
LHW Stipe
MW DC
WW Whitaker
LW Woodley
FW Ferguson
BW Holloway
FLW TJ

Summary: Its not a very well thought out thread

Thought out enough to get your list. So what if I'm wrong.

 

[chefa]

Are we assuming these people can make weight ? or how they would look if they tried to do this ?
If they could make weight
Stipe stays HW champ
Stipe beats DC
DC beats GSP or Whitaker
GSP beats Woodley and Whitaker at 170
Woodley Beats Conor
Max beats Conor
Max beats TJ
Tj beats DJ

In reality if they tried to make weight
Stipe stays HW champ
Stipe gets beaten badly by DC from being a corpse from trying to cut weight
DC gets beaten badly by GSP or Whitaker from being a corpse trying to make 185
GSP wins belt at 170 beating both woodley and whitaker
Max beats Conor at 155 and 145
Tj stays 135 champ and beats MM at 125

 

[SirKratos]

Thought out enough to get your list. So what if I'm wrong.

I mean its kinda silly because most of the upper weight class champs can't make the weight to fight the lower weight champ

 

[MacGregor]

I mean its kinda silly because most of the upper weight class champs can't make the weight to fight the lower weight champ

Fair enough. I'm just interested in who people would favor from one division to the next using current champs. Appreciate the replies.

 

[cyrusthevyrus]

HW Stipe
LHW DC
MW Whitaker
WW Whitaker
LW Conor
FW Conor
BW TJ
FLW TJ

 

[cade187]

If we imagine that everyone has no trouble making weight:

HW: Stipe
LHW: Stipe
MW: DC
WW: Woodley
LW: Woodley
FW: Max
BW: TJ
FlW: TJ

 

[RaZer Cruz]

HW DC
LHW DC
MW DC can't make MW Woodly
WW Woodly
LW Conor
FW Conor
BW TJ
FW TJ

 

[felmmando]

Unlike most of those replying, I favour Cormier against Miocic and Johnson against Dillashaw because they seem more complete fighters.

 

[chefa]

Unlike most of those replying, I favour Cormier against Miocic and Johnson against Dillashaw because they seem more complete fighters.

I could see DC beating Stipe but he is getting up there in years and he was recently put to sleep in a 5 rounder I just have a hard time imagining Stipe would not find his shot given the power he has

As for MM I am just not sold on him, is he a great fighter, without question but I think he lords over a horribly weak division. Its easy to look like a god when the guys you fight are regional level fighters. The last time we saw him against a BW he got tossed around the cage like a child

 

[felmmando]

As for MM I am just not sold on him, is he a great fighter, without question but I think he lords over a horribly weak division. Its easy to look like a god when the guys you fight are regional level fighters. The last time we saw him against a BW he got tossed around the cage like a child

You mean when he fought Dodson? The scenario TS presents is somewhat ambiguous: I don't see anything that specifies whether Johnson and Dillashaw would fight at 125 or 135. I agree with you to this extent: Dillashaw would have a better chance at 135. I can't agree with your generalisation about the quality of Johnson's competition; indeed he has fought some weak opponents but I just don't see McCall, Horiguchi, Benavidez or Dodson as regional level fighters. Even Bagautinov and the much derided Borg looked pretty good when they weren't fighting the elite--much better than most of the plodding fighers in the division Miocic rules but doesn't get ragged on for.

 

[chefa]

You mean when he fought Dodson? The scenario TS presents is somewhat ambiguous: I don't see anything that specifies whether Johnson and Dillashaw would fight at 125 or 135. I agree with you to this extent: Dillashaw would have a better chance at 135. I can't agree with your generalisation about the quality of Johnson's competition; indeed he has fought some weak opponents but I just don't see McCall, Horiguchi, Benavidez or Dodson as regional level fighters. Even Bagautinov and the much derided Borg looked pretty good when they weren't fighting the elite--much better than most of the plodding fighers in the division Miocic rules but doesn't get ragged on for.

Here is the thing I am not denying MM is a great fighter I said so in my post, what I am saying is I think he looks better than he is. The only fighters we know too be great that he fought are the ones you listed and not surprisingly he had the hardest time with. Joe B is his most credible win, McCall was arguably beating him the first time they fought, Dodson is another example of looking good vs weak competition however he has the equalizer with suprising power for his size I keep him in the same regard as Urijah Hall they are good but not great however they can end you at any moment. As for Horiguchi who has he ever beaten to be considered great ? his best wins are Gaudinot and Bagutinov hardly world beaters themselves.

Am I saying MM is bad not in the slighest however I think he is not as good as people think. If GSP or Anderson or Jones fought regional level guys they would look like gods too.

As for Stipe he also lords over a weak division but he gets more respect because even a low level HW if you sleep on them for a second can put you out so the danger is far far greater for him and the margin of error less. MM can get away with more because the number of 125'ers that can one shot you consistently is very small.

MM biggest issue is that there are not that many men in the world that are that size so right there the talent pool is small, from there its even fewer who become athletes, from that even less who become fighters. So you can never truly gauge how good someone is when there is so few to compare.

I am very interested to see him fight TJ if he fights TJ at either 125 or 135 and even makes it highly competitive and losses that really says more about him than everything he has done at 125 because he is fighting a highly skilled fighter who has all the physical advantages. If he bumped up to 135 and lost but made it a fight that would honestly move him higher in regard in my eyes. But the last thing I remember of him fighting a great fighter was getting tossed around the cage like a child, than going to fight all the other people who could not cut it at 135

 

[felmmando]

Here is the thing I am not denying MM is a great fighter I said so in my post, what I am saying is I think he looks better than he is. The only fighters we know too be great that he fought are the ones you listed and not surprisingly he had the hardest time with. Joe B is his most credible win, McCall was arguably beating him the first time they fought, Dodson is another example of looking good vs weak competition however he has the equalizer with suprising power for his size I keep him in the same regard as Urijah Hall they are good but not great however they can end you at any moment. As for Horiguchi who has he ever beaten to be considered great ? his best wins are Gaudinot and Bagutinov hardly world beaters themselves.

Am I saying MM is bad not in the slighest however I think he is not as good as people think. If GSP or Anderson or Jones fought regional level guys they would look like gods too.

As for Stipe he also lords over a weak division but he gets more respect because even a low level HW if you sleep on them for a second can put you out so the danger is far far greater for him and the margin of error less. MM can get away with more because the number of 125'ers that can one shot you consistently is very small.

MM biggest issue is that there are not that many men in the world that are that size so right there the talent pool is small, from there its even fewer who become athletes, from that even less who become fighters. So you can never truly gauge how good someone is when there is so few to compare.

I am very interested to see him fight TJ if he fights TJ at either 125 or 135 and even makes it highly competitive and losses that really says more about him than everything he has done at 125 because he is fighting a highly skilled fighter who has all the physical advantages. If he bumped up to 135 and lost but made it a fight that would honestly move him higher in regard in my eyes. But the last thing I remember of him fighting a great fighter was getting tossed around the cage like a child, than going to fight all the other people who could not cut it at 135

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Quality of competition is one metric we can use to assess fighters but it's not the only one: just looking at the moves Horiguchi executes tells me he's not a regional level fighter. The same applies to the champion: even when he's not fighting top talent, one can tell that he's evolved a great deal since he got suplexed by Dominic Cruz. And even though he was far from reaching his full potential at the time and did get suplexed, the fight was more competitive than your description makes out: Johnson was holding his own on the feet. That said, I grant your main points: the flyweight division isn't as stacked as, say, lightweight or as risky as heavyweight and Johnson probably wouldn't steamroll every opponent if he consistently faced top fighters. In fact, he'd probably be more popular if he were in more competitive matches.

 

[chefa]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Quality of competition is one metric we can use to assess fighters but it's not the only one: just looking at the moves Horiguchi executes tells me he's not a regional level fighter. The same applies to the champion: even when he's not fighting top talent, one can tell that he's evolved a great deal since he got suplexed by Dominic Cruz. And even though he was far from reaching his full potential at the time and did get suplexed, the fight was more competitive than your description makes out: Johnson was holding his own on the feet. That said, I grant your main points: the flyweight division isn't as stacked as, say, lightweight or as risky as heavyweight and Johnson probably wouldn't steamroll every opponent if he consistently faced top fighters. In fact, he'd probably be more popular if he were in more competitive matches.

I agree with you on all points there, and that is why I really hope he takes the TJ fight and show if he is truly as good as he looks or if he is just a big fish in a small pond. As I said he could even lose to TJ but if its a super competitive fight I think that does a huge deal for him in showing P4P greatness as he would be giving up all the advantages.