Communism was the most evil ideology of the XX century by a long shot.

[Unknown Pleasures]

All a matter of perspective. Seemed to me that the major communist revolutions where done to prevent imperialism.

Europe was carving up Africa with little concern for ethics. Japan was invading China. Without industrialization programs who knows if Russia would be a satellite of Germany, and Japan pillaging China.

Massive price to pay, but let's not pretend the commie countries weren't surrounded by hostile neighbors. Lot of it was rather situational. And honestly, a topic that is seldom discussed seriously.

 

[RubberGuard5]

There was obviously a ruling class in the Soviet Union. It was an oligarchy, hardly a Marxist utopia.

Marx defined class by ownership. Soviet rulers didn't own the means of production. It would be a dream coming true for Marx.

 

[ocean size]

Capatalism was the most evil ideology, still is, but also much better to the world than communism.

Basically greed is put ahead of people's well being...it doesn't matter how badly you rip off somebody, along as you can do profit.... Look all around the world and you get horrible capitalistic examples, where poor people get the worst of it...from child labor to slavery to cutting corners which leads to people's death..also lets no forget capitalistic corporations ruining countries like United fruit company.....is just a pure "me" mentality ideology.

Now has it benifited the world? Hell yeah...Rapid advancements, more tech/money for parts of the world that have been forgotten.

However the ideology by itself is pure evil.

Is an interesting one, capitalism is moreso on paper but way less in practice, and I guess 'evil' isn't about outcomes as much as intent.

I've always thought the road to hell is paved with good intentions though and don't believe in categorical 'good/evil'

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Capatalism was the most evil ideology, still is, but also much better to the world than communism.

Basically greed is put ahead of people's well being...it doesn't matter how badly you rip off somebody, along as you can do profit.... Look all around the world and you get horrible capitalistic examples, where poor people get the worst of it...from child labor to slavery to cutting corners which leads to people's death..also lets no forget capitalistic corporations ruining countries like United fruit company.....is just a pure "me" mentality ideology.

Now has it benifited the world? Hell yeah...Rapid advancements, more tech/money for parts of the world that have been forgotten.

However the ideology by itself is pure evil.

Greed is not inherently put ahead of people's well being in capitalist societies. An easy proof of this is the relative well-being of people in capitalist societies. It's always when things go socialist, as in Venezuela, that people in wealthy countries start starving.

The true core of capitalism isn't greed, but freedom. Let people do what they can with what they have. Like representational government, it is a messy arrangement that leads to many mistakes. But on the whole it greatly outperforms competing systems not only in material prosperity and even in terms of things like care for the poor.

Conversely, the true core principle of communism isn't sharing, but the extreme centralization of power. To a much lesser degree this is also true of other forms of socialism, which is part of why a socialist responds to every problem with a government solution.

 

[AndrewGolota48]

That is one thing that irks me. Some muppet can go around promoting communism and doesn't get anywhere the amount of backlash they deserve

Whatever you think about it, there is no doubt that the well has been poisoned in relation to a host of political terms. You have to be able to see the forest from the trees regardless of which hot button terms are being thrown around. In the end they don't really matter much to the true logistics of a situation.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

All a matter of perspective. Seemed to me that the major communist revolutions where done to prevent imperialism.

Europe was carving up Africa with little concern for ethics. Japan was invading China. Without industrialization programs who knows if Russia would be a satellite of Germany, and Japan pillaging China.

Massive price to pay, but let's not pretend the commie countries weren't surrounded by hostile neighbors. Lot of it was rather situational. And honestly, a topic that is seldom discussed seriously.

you realize the Russo Japanese War of 1905 was fought over the two Imperialistic ambitions in Manchuria and Korea, right?

Russia was far from innocent my dude, and they got merc'd by Japan at that hahahahahaha

 

[snakedafunky]

Massive price to pay, but let's not pretend the commie countries weren't surrounded by hostile neighbors. Lot of it was rather situational. And honestly, a topic that is seldom discussed seriously.

I think when it comes to situational circumstances. Nazism was a response to the Bolshevik threat from Russia and within Germany itself.
If it weren't for the threat of that I don't think Hitler would have ever made it out of Bavaria to a national stage.
That is of course not me excusing any of the Nazi crimes. No reason to burn the Jews and genocides on slaves etc. while fighting the Bolcheviks.
But I think a lot of people were strongly in support of the anti-Marxists stand from the NSDAP. And that was a big factor why they gained power.

There was a real possibility of the communist taking over power in Germany in the 20's.
That would have changed history a lot if the center of communists power would have been in Berlin and not Moscow.

 

[nostradumbass]

Yup. Not sure why you think initial intent is that important when we all know what "good intentions" devolve into. There's no end to sectioning off society by racial and sexual groups to redistribute, and even if you thought that was a noble cause, there's always some evil hunk of shit who will take this big machine you've built and wreck it all. I want them to have very little control over society so I can write off the possibility of some tyrant abusing it.

My gf's grandfather was one of the kulaks who got his farm confiscated and sent to a gulag in siberia. He had a fucked up black nose cause he got frostbite waiting in a breadlinne in goddamn siberia while 6 million Ukranians starved to death because all the farms got stolen.

Capatalism was the most evil ideology, still is, but also much better to the world than communism.

How the eff does that work? The most evil but does the most good? That's cute.

 

[AlexDB9]

Agreed.

 

[AndrewGolota48]

Marx defined class by ownership. Soviet rulers didn't own the means of production. It would be a dream coming true for Marx.

Not really brah, he was basically an anarchist and wanted proletariat control over government during the transitional phase of eradicating it. But again it was just one guy's outlook and you can separate his good and bad analysis.

 

[Rod1]

Not that I disagree on the Soviet part by why sell China and the Khmer Rouge short?

I meant as a way to distance from theorical marxism.

Capatalism was the most evil ideology, still is, but also much better to the world than communism.

Capitalism isnt an ideology.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Somalia used to be communist, until 91, when it wasn't.....

and it's been it's current state ever since. Would recommend!

In fact the vast vast majority of former communist states backed by the USSR are extremely suspect: Mozambique, Angola, Slovakia, Somalia, Derg (Ethiopia), South Yemen, Congo, Benin, etc....

Other than Czech Republic/E. Germany/Hungary and arguably Poland, it's pretty rough

 

[IReallyDoTrainUFC]

From the perspective of a libertarian like myself, I think Conservatism, especially the neoconservative variety, has been the most dangerous ideology.

It's responsible for millions of innocent people's deaths because of nation building, and it tricks otherwise honest people into thinking they are supporting "small government" when in reality, it is big government out of control.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

you realize the Russo Japanese War of 1905 was fought over the two Imperialistic ambitions in Manchuria and Korea, right?

Russia was far from innocent my dude, and they got merc'd by Japan at that hahahahahaha

What are you rambling about? I said things were situational, and never said anybody was "innocent". And that rapid industrialization was essentially a necessity given the degree of imperialist expansion in the world at the time.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

What are you rambling about? I said things were situational, and never said anybody was "innocent". And that rapid industrialization was essentially a necessity given the degree of imperialist expansion in the world at the time.

you painted the communist nations as 'targets' of Imperialism, when in fact Russia was Imperialist on it's own......

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

I think when it comes to situational circumstances. Nazism was a response to the Bolshevik threat from Russia and within Germany itself.
If it weren't for the threat of that I don't think Hitler would have ever made it out of Bavaria to a national stage.
That is of course not me excusing any of the Nazi crimes. No reason to burn the Jews and genocides on slaves etc. while fighting the Bolcheviks.
But I think a lot of people were strongly in support of the anti-Marxists stand from the NSDAP. And that was a big factor why they gained power.

There was a real possibility of the communist taking over power in Germany in the 20's.
That would have changed history a lot if the center of communists power would have been in Berlin and not Moscow.

I can go along with that. There's a tendency to assign single-variable analysis to these things that I think does a disservice.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

you painted the communist nations as 'targets' of Imperialism, when in fact Russia was Imperialist on it's own......

Didn't know those had to be mutually exclusive. The point was the military weakness of Russia pre-industrialization required dramatic action given the global military aggression. Now Russia and China are two countries that have essentially guaranteed their sovereignty from foreign evasion for the conceivable future due to their military advancements.

 

[snakedafunky]

I can go along with that. There's a tendency to assign single-variable analysis to these things that I think does a disservice.

Yeah, I agree. I think the best way to prevent a regime like the Nazis or Stalinism to come into power again.
Is to understand the circumstance how they could rise in the first place.
It is like you say complicated and not just a single variable.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Didn't know those had to be mutually exclusive. The point was the military weakness of Russia pre-industrialization required dramatic action given the global military aggression. Now Russia and China are two countries that have essentially guaranteed their sovereignty from foreign evasion for the conceivable future due to their military advancements.

It did, which is why I brought up a war they lost just prior to WWI

They also largely only did that as an OFFENSIVE measure, not a Defensive one is my pt.

 

[manlyseaeagle]

Here is the real and most important lesson of totalitarian pseudo-communism:

The smaller the circle of people controlling the majority of a nation's wealth, the greater the suffering and subjugation of the populace.

Vatican and Rothschilds ?