Crime Charges Re-Filed against Alec Baldwin in 'Rust' Shooting. (Update: Armorer's Trial Started)

[AGEZ909]

Just here to comment on how funny it is that such an unhinged anti-gunner is in court for shooting someone dead.

 

[chardog]

I think it does potentially in terms of whether charges being filed is a guide to whether they think the case is winnable.

Was Baldwin as an actor under a legal requirement to check the weapon? I can't say I'm an expert but my understanding is that's the armourers job, an expert(or should be) in the field.

To me the way this case is being pushed doesnt seem like they have a smoking gun so to speak, it doesnt seem to be focusing on one action by Baldwin which was clearly culpable but rather shifting around making a lot of different claims, first it was whether he pulled the trigger, then it was whether he was liable as a producer, then it was his failiure to check the gun.

let's reframe this question, is ANYONE under a legal requirement to check a weapon?

is being an actor some sort of protected class? there are levels to actors, a youtuber pretending, a small indie film, a hulu star, hollywood.

if you ran a youtube channel and for the sake of "acting", you accidentally killed someone via firearm. You would be busted and game over. The only reason why there's more to this story is because Baldwin is rich and powerful, and the confusion exists to obscure the basics. Anyone with a gun, handling a gun, is required to go through training, end of story. He shot the gal point blank, absolutely nobody would get away with "the gun went off by itself" excuse. The guy pointed at a person that DID NOT NEED the gun pointed at, in fact, for the scene that they were recording, it was to capture the gun at an offset angle, the production did not require a person opposite of the gun. That is the SECOND gun safety protocol that was broken.

by his own admission, he didnt inspect the gun, that we know was admitted. At minimum, that's manslaughter, what he's being charged with. As for the gun having live ammo, that can be either foul play or the armorer screwing the pooch, and she's being charged, and yes, you can charge two people, since they are both responsible for the firearm, that's how redundancy works, you live and die together.

 

[llperez22]

let's reframe this question, is ANYONE under a legal requirement to check a weapon?

is being an actor some sort of protected class? there are levels to actors, a youtuber pretending, a small indie film, a hulu star, hollywood.

if you ran a youtube channel and for the sake of "acting", you accidentally killed someone via firearm. You would be busted and game over. The only reason why there's more to this story is because Baldwin is rich and powerful, and the confusion exists to obscure the basics. Anyone with a gun, handling a gun, is required to go through training, end of story. He shot the gal point blank, absolutely nobody would get away with "the gun went off by itself" excuse. The guy pointed at a person that DID NOT NEED the gun pointed at, in fact, for the scene that they were recording, it was to capture the gun at an offset angle, the production did not require a person opposite of the gun. That is the SECOND gun safety protocol that was broken.

by his own admission, he didnt inspect the gun, that we know was admitted. At minimum, that's manslaughter, what he's being charged with. As for the gun having live ammo, that can be either foul play or the armorer screwing the pooch, and she's being charged, and yes, you can charge two people, since they are both responsible for the firearm, that's how redundancy works, you live and die together.

like I said earlier, im kinda indifferent on baldwins guilt. He played a role in production so for that he assumes some responsibility for the safety issues. But I dont think in general actors should be held accountable for checking a gun that has already been checked and cleared by the individuals in charge of that role on set. SAG-AfTRA has stood in support of Baldwin saying :

"On Thursday, SAG-AFTRA, the union representing over 150,000 Hollywood actors, said in a statement that it's not an actor's job to inspect firearms on set.

"To the extent that the charges filed on January 19 are based on an accusation of negligent use of a firearm predicated on this or any actor having a duty to inspect a firearm as part of its use, that is an incorrect assessment of the actual duties of an actor on set," it said.

It added, "An actor’s job is not to be a firearms or weapons expert. Firearms are provided for use on set under the guidance of multiple expert professionals directly responsible for the safe and accurate operation of that firearm."

SAG-AFTRA puts support behind Alec Baldwin following manslaughter charge in 'Rust' movie shooting

The actors union said it isn't an actor's job to inspect firearms on set.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[chardog]

like I said earlier, im kinda indifferent on baldwins guilt. He played a role in production so for that he assumes some responsibility for the safety issues. But I dont think in general actors should be held accountable for checking a gun that has already been checked and cleared by the individuals in charge of that role on set. SAG-AfTRA has stood in support of Baldwin saying :

"On Thursday, SAG-AFTRA, the union representing over 150,000 Hollywood actors, said in a statement that it's not an actor's job to inspect firearms on set.

"To the extent that the charges filed on January 19 are based on an accusation of negligent use of a firearm predicated on this or any actor having a duty to inspect a firearm as part of its use, that is an incorrect assessment of the actual duties of an actor on set," it said.

It added, "An actor’s job is not to be a firearms or weapons expert. Firearms are provided for use on set under the guidance of multiple expert professionals directly responsible for the safe and accurate operation of that firearm."

SAG-AFTRA puts support behind Alec Baldwin following manslaughter charge in 'Rust' movie shooting

The actors union said it isn't an actor's job to inspect firearms on set.

www.nbcnews.com

Don’t care, sag don’t make laws.

He broke more than one safety protocol. What is the point of the armorer training the crew if they don’t have to follow the instructions?

The statement is lying by omission/misdirection, the whole word salad says nothing.

Never point the gun at anyone, it’s in the sag handbook

Anyone using a weapon shall know all the operating features and safety devices

Blanks can kill

No one is issued a gun unless they are trained, Alec has done many movies involving guns

Keep your fingers off the trigger, Alec pulled the trigger……. Bullets don’t magically disperse

All local, state, and federal laws can override these guidelines.

 

[KnockoutsGalore]

Don’t care, sag don’t make laws.

He broke more than one safety protocol. What is the point of the armorer training the crew if they don’t have to follow the instructions?

The statement is lying by omission/misdirection, the whole word salad says nothing.

Never point the gun at anyone, it’s in the sag handbook

Anyone using a weapon shall know all the operating features and safety devices

Blanks can kill

No one is issued a gun unless they are trained, Alec has done many movies involving guns

Keep your fingers off the trigger, Alec pulled the trigger……. Bullets don’t magically disperse

All local, state, and federal laws can override these guidelines.

There can be more than enough blame to go around. It doesn't have to just fall on one person, and multiple people can be guilty of their respective crimes. Just because Alec pulled the trigger doesn't mean the armorer should get off, and the armorer putting a live round shouldn't absolve Baldwin of his own errors.

 

[chardog]

There can be more than enough blame to go around. It doesn't have to just fall on one person, and multiple people can be guilty of their respective crimes. Just because Alec pulled the trigger doesn't mean the armorer should get off, and the armorer putting a live round shouldn't absolve Baldwin of his own errors.

she's aint getting off, and that's how it should be, if there are redundant checks in place, then they're both at fault.... however, he's more at fault for pointing the gun at a person that needed no gun pointed at, and having his finger on the trigger.

 

[KnockoutsGalore]

she's aint getting off, and that's how it should be, if there are redundant checks in place, then they're both at fault.... however, he's more at fault for pointing the gun at a person that needed no gun pointed at, and having his finger on the trigger.

I'm going to respectfully disagree. While I know the buck stops with him, guns pointing in the directions of cameras is nothing new, and the production team needs to know it's going to happen. That's what makes the role of the armorer, who was also prop director (Or something of the ilk), that much more important. There's a lot of "ifs" that can be bandied around, but the first line of defense is IF she doesn't allow live rounds on set, no one dies.

 

[llperez22]

another thing i dont get, ive read that there were accidental discharges on set previously which is one of the reasons people were walking off the set. If thats true, how in the fuck does every person on that set not ramp up precautions to 11 immediately? I mean every gun should have been treated like a deadly weapon and the armorer should have been asked to explain what happened immediately.

 

[HereticBD]

another thing i dont get, ive read that there were accidental discharges on set previously which is one of the reasons people were walking off the set. If thats true, how in the fuck does every person on that set not ramp up precautions to 11 immediately? I mean every gun should have been treated like a deadly weapon and the armorer should have been asked to explain what happened immediately.

Some weren't even accidental. The armorer brought live rounds on the set, so they could do some target practice in between takes. It was a low budget shit show of a production. The armorer herself was cheap alternative to a seasoned pro. She had damn near no experience, and was really only in the business because of her Daddy, who was a legit firearms expert with decades of experience.

 

[chardog]

I'm going to respectfully disagree. While I know the buck stops with him, guns pointing in the directions of cameras is nothing new, and the production team needs to know it's going to happen. That's what makes the role of the armorer, who was also prop director (Or something of the ilk), that much more important. There's a lot of "ifs" that can be bandied around, but the first line of defense is IF she doesn't allow live rounds on set, no one dies.

did you see the reenactment? guns are usually not pointed 100% head on, they are usually at a slight angle.

on top of that, there were people on the right side, he had no business pointing the gun at them, when pointed slightly off axis, you can easily make it appear on axis while being a safe distance away, using camera angles.

the sag handbook has gun guidance, which is not much different from normal gun protocol, it's in the post you replied to, that's from sag

 

[KnockoutsGalore]

FBI tells court Baldwin's 'Rust' gun would not fire without pulling trigger

The revolver actor Alec Baldwin was holding when it fired a live round that killed "Rust" cinematographer Halyna Hutchins in 2021 would not fire when fully cocked without the trigger being pulled, an FBI firearms expert testified on Monday. The testimony during the involuntary manslaughter...

www.yahoo.com

FBI swears under oath that Baldwin has to have pulled the trigger, in direct conflict with his statements that his finger never touched it and the gun went off.

 

[KnockoutsGalore]

Testimony yesterday veered into placing all of the blame on Baldwin as producer. https://www.newser.com/story/346945...at-trial-over-fatal-shooting-on-film-set.html

In a tense cross-examination, defense attorney Jason Bowles asked Addiego whether he was aware that Gutierrez-Reed had unsuccessfully requested more time for focus on her responsibilities as armorer instead of other prop duties, such as rolling cowboy cigarettes. "Did you ever stand up to Mr. Baldwin and say, 'No, we're not going to move this fast?'" Bowles asked. "That's not my job," Addiego said. Bowles continued: "With everybody else, grown men, not standing up to Mr. Baldwin, wouldn't you find that difficult for her also?" He noted that Addiego has sued Baldwin and Rust Movie Productions and questioned his motives in testifying. (More from Monday's testimony here.)

 

[KnockoutsGalore]

Rust armorer testifies that she checked dummy rounds "most of the time"

https://variety.com/2024/film/news/rust-armorer-hannah-gutierrez-reed-police-interview-1235924645/

 

[llperez22]

Armorer sounds like she’s totally unqualified. She is on video during investigation the day of the shooting saying that she checked the dummy rounds to see if they rattled when they were shaken. Dummy’s rattle and live rounds do not she said so if it didn’t rattle she would not have loaded it in gun. However the gun Baldwin shot was inspected and they found dummy rounds in the gun that had holes in the side of them indicating they were blanks, however this type of dummy round also wouldn’t make a rattling sound contradicting her statement to the police

 

[KnockoutsGalore]

This type of trial always points to the dog and pony show that is the justice system. Looking at a picture of Hannah when she was arrested, in plaid and with purple and gold hair, and then in court she's got her turtleneck on, her hair is a natural dark color (not the blonde she'd worn before), trying to make her look meek and innocent.

I understand that attire at work is different than in the court, but still...

 

[Fedor>Cain]

let's reframe this question, is ANYONE under a legal requirement to check a weapon?

is being an actor some sort of protected class? there are levels to actors, a youtuber pretending, a small indie film, a hulu star, hollywood.

if you ran a youtube channel and for the sake of "acting", you accidentally killed someone via firearm. You would be busted and game over. The only reason why there's more to this story is because Baldwin is rich and powerful, and the confusion exists to obscure the basics. Anyone with a gun, handling a gun, is required to go through training, end of story. He shot the gal point blank, absolutely nobody would get away with "the gun went off by itself" excuse. The guy pointed at a person that DID NOT NEED the gun pointed at, in fact, for the scene that they were recording, it was to capture the gun at an offset angle, the production did not require a person opposite of the gun. That is the SECOND gun safety protocol that was broken.

by his own admission, he didnt inspect the gun, that we know was admitted. At minimum, that's manslaughter, what he's being charged with. As for the gun having live ammo, that can be either foul play or the armorer screwing the pooch, and she's being charged, and yes, you can charge two people, since they are both responsible for the firearm, that's how redundancy works, you live and die together.

Bro, Dick Cheney accidentally shot a dude in the chest with a shotgun and not a goddamn thing happened to him lmao

 

[KnockoutsGalore]

Bro, Dick Cheney accidentally shot a dude in the chest with a shotgun and not a goddamn thing happened to him lmao

To be fair, that was basically with a BB gun (28 gauge shotgun), and the guy that he shot, who was 78 years old, didn't die from it.

 

[Fedor>Cain]

To be fair, that was basically with a BB gun (28 gauge shotgun), and the guy that he shot, who was 78 years old, didn't die from it.

Right, but just because the guy didn't die doesn't mean the situations weren't similar. Dude accidentally fired a gun off and shot the dude in the chest. A pellet got lodged and gave him a heart attack.

No chance in hell Cheney would have been charged with manslaughter if the dude actually died.

The biggest difference between the two situations is that one guy died and the other one lived to say it was an accident lol. Just seems sort of arbitrary. Also, the other guy was a vice president and we all know politicians are above the law at this point.

If Baldwin's situation is considered manslaughter, then no doubt Cheney should have been charged with attempted manslaughter.

 

[KnockoutsGalore]

Right, but just because the guy didn't die doesn't mean the situations weren't similar. Dude accidentally fired a gun off and shot the dude in the chest. A pellet got lodged and gave him a heart attack.

No chance in hell Cheney would have been charged with manslaughter if the dude actually died.

Very different circumstances, all told. When going on a hunting trip with a licensed hunter, there should NEVER be a reason to have a gun pointed at you. While filming a movie with guns being pointed in different directions, and JUST off camera angles, despite SAG rules, there may even be an expectation of having a gun pointed in your direction. Frankly, Cheney deserved charges as well.

 

[Fedor>Cain]

Very different circumstances, all told. When going on a hunting trip with a licensed hunter, there should NEVER be a reason to have a gun pointed at you. While filming a movie with guns being pointed in different directions, and JUST off camera angles, despite SAG rules, there may even be an expectation of having a gun pointed in your direction. Frankly, Cheney deserved charges as well.

True, but if you are hunting with a batman villain/war criminal like Dick Cheney, all bets are off.