Social Can homeless people be fined for sleeping outside? A rural Oregon city asks the US Supreme Court

[Seano]

Right...because jail, fines, and a criminal record really improves someone's employment and economic prospects. You're not proposing a measure that reduces homelessness, your idea would probably increase it to be honest.

Its a pic of a garbage pile in the middle of the woods that someone was living in that you responded to..... you think those people are really trying to find work?

 

[DoctorTaco]

minor civic offenses

I want this to stop happening. I think we should punish people for these crimes. Idk how you can consider this a minor civic offense:

We can, but building up the physical and human infrastructure to deal with homelessness takes years. Tossing people in jail and fining them for various minor civic offenses before that infrastructure is ready is counterproductive. You seem obsessed with making sure the homeless are not visible (you don't seem as concerned with increasing their chances to be employed and paying rent I'll note), without giving thought to where those people will go once you kick them out of parks with a fine or jail time.

For the 5th time- have nots, can nots, will nots. Why is being homeless an excuse to wreck natural parks and spaces, leave mountains of garbage, bike parts, stolen vehicles and biohazard risks?

It’s not hard to sleep on the streets without doing any/all of the above. The same goes with blocking sidewalks for the disabled and elderly.

Let me try to fuck this football from the other end- what do you propose we do when large groups of homeless people make tent cities and are wrecking parks and natural spaces? What’s your solution?

 

[ferrisjso]

It’s up to them. Personal responsibility and accountability. Maybe don’t be a shit goose who trashes public spaces?

At the end of the day these are people living without a space to put their crap(literal and not). While not trashing public spaces is fine in this instance that is not a reasonable request.

I don't believe your care for public spaces is sincere. And the people shitting on the homeless tend to want to minimize public just about everything.

 

[ferrisjso]

Its a pic of a garbage pile in the middle of the woods that someone was living in that you responded to..... you think those people are really trying to find work?

And you think people who aren't tryng to work in capitalism/start a business should be homeless?

You're trying to make servitude a social obligation at the threat of violence.

 

[Seano]

And you think people who aren't tryng to work in capitalism/start a business should be homeless?

You're trying to make servitude a social obligation at the threat of violence.

Vs just ignoring the problem and letting it get worse? I guess I can't disagree. They can't help themselves, I guess, no matter how many resources are available. I guess I'm not seeing any other way then not allowing it anymore.

 

[avenue94]

Its a pic of a garbage pile in the middle of the woods that someone was living in that you responded to..... you think those people are really trying to find work?

Never know, like I said, the guy is cherry picking the worse caricatures of homeless folks in a thread about a court case where it's very clear those caricatures are not the people being targeted.

For the 5th time- have nots, can nots, will nots. Why is being homeless an excuse to wreck natural parks and spaces, leave mountains of garbage, bike parts, stolen vehicles and biohazard risks?

It's not, I've never claimed it is. I've pointed out that just fining and jailing people isn't going to solve this problem, even in the short term. I've already explained that the law this thread is about doesn't do what you think it does and you've ignored that and neglected to actually read the ordinances in question.

Let me try to fuck this football from the other end- what do you propose we do when large groups of homeless people make tent cities and are wrecking parks and natural spaces? What’s your solution?

Crash course in building shelters and the support system for it (as in toss billions of dollars at it and have the federal government or state government step in to force local municipalities to spend these funds). Treat it as the dire issue it is, not as something piecemeal and at the whim of Nimbys, which is usually what happens to any efforts to build shelter capacity or reduce housing and rent costs.

As for the existing shelters, either semi-regulate them where they are or move them to an area where they can be regulated while shelter capacity is built. Note that the latter option requires a lot of follow through, otherwise you end up with skid row.

I want this to stop happening. I think we should punish people for these crimes. Idk how you can consider this a minor civic offense:

In the grand scheme of criminal and civic offenses, littering, even excessive amounts, from individuals is a minor offense.

 

[DoctorTaco]

At the end of the day these are people living without a space to put their crap(literal and not). While not trashing public spaces is fine in this instance that is not a reasonable request.

I don't believe your care for public spaces is sincere. And the people shitting on the homeless tend to want to minimize public just about everything.

To be clear: you’re saying it is not reasonable for me to expect folks to be punished for doing what we see in these photos?

I grew up hunting and fishing. I was out hiking, camping, swimming, surfing, and spending all day out in the woods as a kid. I taught my kid to read signs and we’d stalk deer together to take photos when she was just 5 years old. I love the woods we have here in the PNW. The natural spaces are why I choose to live here.

Portland has some of the most beautiful parks in the country. We have 8 months of rain and shitty weather so when the sun comes out the whole city makes use of these parks together. Community events, pick up games, cook outs, beer league sports, I love it.

Forgive me for not wanting them destroyed by criddlers. You can’t look at those photos and tell me that those are all personal belongings that would sit on a shelf if these folks had an apartment. It’s hoarding garbage from their mental disorders brought on by meth and fent.

 

[ferrisjso]

Vs just ignoring the problem and letting it get worse? I guess I can't disagree. They can't help themselves, I guess, no matter how many resources are available. I guess I'm not seeing any other way then not allowing it anymore.

No I'd give the homeless basic housing. The problem is capitalism. Homelesness isn't a real problem in a vaccum its caused by the overarching problem of markets.

To be clear: you’re saying it is not reasonable for me to expect folks to be punished for doing what we see in these photos?

I grew up hunting and fishing. I was out hiking, camping, swimming, surfing, and spending all day out in the woods as a kid. I taught my kid to read signs and we’d stalk deer together to take photos when she was just 5 years old. I love the woods we have here in the PNW. The natural spaces are why I choose to live here.

Portland has some of the most beautiful parks in the country. We have 8 months of rain and shitty weather so when the sun comes out the whole city makes use of these parks together. Community events, pick up games, cook outs, beer league sports, I love it.

Forgive me for not wanting them destroyed by criddlers. You can’t look at those photos and tell me that those are all personal belongings that would sit on a shelf if these folks had an apartment. It’s hoarding garbage from their mental disorders brought on by meth and fent.

Yes they are just living. And they are trying their damdnest to avoid you by camping in the woods. If they were camping on the street you'd be bitching about them on the street blocking your path. And here they've worked hard to make sure those encounters never happen. And that still ain't fucking good enough for you. So no its not a reasonable request.

You're prioritizng your entertainment over peoples basic needs which should always be given deference. You're clearly the real victim for having your community events interfered with. And yes thats unreasonable.

Have you seen peoples apartments? And if you're right people with housing aren't subject to your inespection of the shit they own.

 

[DoctorTaco]

littering, even excessive amounts, from individuals is a minor offense.

So I’d assume you’re pro republicans rolling back pollution standards and EPA regulations? Just a minor offense, yeah? Or if I rented a fleet of semis and then dropped off 17 TONS of garbage (real number from a real camp clearance, btw) you’d consider this to be a minor offense???

Im focusing on the worst of the homeless community because where we should start. I don’t care if someone is sleeping in their car, or out of the way in public spaces. If they aren’t wrecking things, stealing, shooting up, threatening or attacking people, not making god awful messes then they’re good in my book. People like THIS should be built up, supported and helped out right away.

You look at these photos and think, “we need more shelters”?! Alright dude. Good call.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Yes they are just living. And they are trying their damdnest to avoid you by camping in the woods.

Would you feel safe/comfortable pitching a tent in one of these encampments and staying for a week or two? If they’re just camping then there shouldn’t be a problem for you, yeah? Or in the city in a tent city there. No more dangerous than a week camping at Yellowstone, yeah?

 

[avenue94]

Would you feel safe/comfortable pitching a tent in one of these encampments and staying for a week or two? If they’re just camping then there shouldn’t be a problem for you, yeah? Or in the city in a tent city there. No more dangerous than a week camping at Yellowstone, yeah?

Depends. I also always have the option of camping elsewhere in the rather vast nature spaces of the country. Not everything in the country can be solved by passing another criminal law or fining people, and not every systemic issue can be solved quickly and without sacrifice's one way or another.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Depends. I also always have the option of camping elsewhere in the rather vast nature spaces of the country. Not everything in the country can be solved by passing another criminal law or fining people, and not every systemic issue can be solved quickly and without sacrifice's one way or another.

So no, you wouldn’t. Interesting.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Would you feel safe/comfortable pitching a tent in one of these encampments and staying for a week or two? If they’re just camping then there shouldn’t be a problem for you, yeah? Or in the city in a tent city there. No more dangerous than a week camping at Yellowstone, yeah?

Bro ain't pitching a tent anywhere he doesn't have mom to make his breakfast just right every morning