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Can Atheists explain to me why there is evil and suffering in the world? | Page 4

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Rusk, Jan 11, 2017.

  1. Rusk Black Belt

    Rusk
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    Its smart of you to not go into dogmas and keep your mind open imo. :) I try to do the same thing.

    Also just thought this sarcastic video was relevant to your post.



    nah, i think it a good question, specially since many responses are "shit just happens" lol

    Sounds like mental gymnastics with a pinch of dualism to me.

    Anyway reducing everything to chemical processes is very reductionistic, and that is what poster i was talking about did.
     
    #61
  2. meauneau Purple Belt

    meauneau
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    The mental emerges weakly from the physical. You cannot predict the emerging property from its parts. You cannot reduce these emergent properties to the physical. Nothing spiritual. Spiritual and mental seem to be a sort of conceptual trash can in which what seems strange or explainable is disposed of.
     
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  3. Cid Silver Belt

    Cid
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    Yeah should have put your post, sig and my avatar together retrospectively.
     
    #63
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  4. Thurisaz I SENSE HERESY

    Thurisaz
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    The implication is that they think they have their cake and eat it simultaneously.
     
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  5. LogicalInsanity Gold Belt

    LogicalInsanity
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    Dude that is just lazy thinking
     
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  6. Blackened Disavow!

    Blackened
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    Sounds like a difference in semantics.

    Like a "Christian Materialist" or some shit. I dunno, I'm not a philosopher. Maybe by definition he is right, but that's not the way I've ever used the words.
     
    #66
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  7. Jack V Savage Funklord of the USA and the Nicest Guy on Sherdog

    Jack V Savage
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    He's defined as being concerned with human pain by religions that are addressed in this argument. Obviously, one can invent a being whose existence can't be disproven who wouldn't care about humans.

    That's not really true. Lots of religions have non-omnipotent gods. And omnipotence impossible anyway.

    We have a natural flaw in that we have to try to explain everything. It actually takes work to overcome that and say what FD said.

    Reminds me of Bokonon in Cat's Cradle:

     
    #67
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  8. Higus Silver Belt

    Higus
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    On the flip side, believing that something has to have a complex metaphysical reason for existing could just be over-complicating a simple issue. Occam's razor.
     
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  9. Blackened Disavow!

    Blackened
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    Sounds like you are playing a game of semantics.

    The mental emerges weakly from the physical? What does this mean?

    What does emerging property mean? That consciousness comes out of matter? Ok, sure I buy that. My point is: So what? You've failed to effectively explain anything here, just described something everyone agrees on with fancy lingo.

    And further, "it emerges from the physical"... so it can't be reduced to the physical, but it mysteriously emerges out of it? If I disable part of the brain so there is a form of "dim conciousness", am I not reducing certain consciousness? If I take a stimulant, am I not expanding it?

    And what does it mean that it can't be predicted? If I take a drug that makes me feel lethargic, is that not a prediction from the matter/mind interaction?
     
    #69
  10. Cid Silver Belt

    Cid
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    Humans are fallible.

    I'm sure if we were infallible we'd have that suffering stuff sorted by now.
     
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  11. Cygnus A Purple Belt

    Cygnus A
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    Why did god create evil and suffering? Why did he design creatures that rely on the pain, suffering and death of others in order to survive? Every day there are things trying to kill you, but your immune system is working around the clock to keep you alive. Why did god setup this dichotomy ? Why didn't he just skip designing bacteria, viruses, and other parasites ?
     
    #71
  12. meauneau Purple Belt

    meauneau
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    There is the strong emergence which is that there is physical and mental properties but only one substance, the physical, and you cannot explain the mental with the physical. Weak emergence is when from the physical substratum you cannot predict the emerging property you observe but can weakly reduce to it.



    I can link you to articles which will explain it to you. I can't explain something like this in a post.


    If physical allows it then it emerges.


    From hydrogen and oxygen you cannot predict wetness, fluidity, transparency, etc.
     
    #72
  13. Skarr Purple Belt

    Skarr
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    sorry...I must have missed the memo where we agreed to ignore the fact that a good portion of "suffering" in the world is in some aspect connected to a religion? and has been since before recorded history....
     
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  14. meauneau Purple Belt

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    He couldn't do better because this is "the best of all possible worlds".
     
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  15. Blackened Disavow!

    Blackened
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    Not true. I assume you're talking about H2 and O2?

    You'd have to define "wetness" for me.

    Fluidity and viscosity can be predicted based on temperature and pressure. Fluidity and similar properties are dependent on surroundings.

    "Transparency" (i.e. color) can be predicted based on atomic orbitals. This is complicated and I couldn't go into it, but you can google search it.
     
    #75
  16. Falsedawn build or destroy

    Falsedawn
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    I beg to differ, as Higus and Jack touched on, humans have an innate urge to understand things, and I believe we miss the forest for the trees sometimes.

    It's why conspiracies are so prevalent, why apophenia is a thing, why the just-world fallacy is even a fallacy. We can take truly independent events, and in the absence of any further connecting information, assign a direct flow of causality from a-z. Conspiracies get shot down all the time when the connecting information is refuted, but the metaphysical nature of this argument means that there's no real way to disprove it, so it gets a pass.

    To attribute causality of an event to "nothing" is going against the millions of years of pattern recognition and heuristic analysis that the brain has developed to cope with the natural world. It's easy to say that evil exists because god wills it, or try and point at *this* one singular thing that causes evil. It's immeasurably hard to say that evil exists in all shapes and forms and that there isn't always a rhyme or reason for it. For a theist, that might be tantamount to saying that their God is a fraud for not being the basis of morality. For your average agnostic/atheist, this might be akin to saying life has no objective meaning (even though objectivity is near impossible to point to without the presence of a diety anyway).

    It's only lazy if you don't consider the philosophical positions of such a stance.
     
    #76
  17. Rusk Black Belt

    Rusk
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    I ask about atheistic point of view, and atheists bring up God and religion ... i mean cant one just be atheist without God and religion? lol
     
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  18. Thurisaz I SENSE HERESY

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    It's an integral part of "FUCK YOU DAD" Atheism.
     
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  19. Skarr Purple Belt

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    you dont recognize how much "Evil" and suffering stem from religions? I dont have to believe in a religion to know that false preachings and ignorant teachings have led to some of the worst events in modern and ancient history

    as others have mentioned...evil is a generic term that you would have to define more so to get more indepth responses

    greed and ignorance play a strong hand in the creation of suffering
     
    #79
  20. Thurisaz I SENSE HERESY

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    In that case you probably create a buttload of it.
     
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