Can anyone detail this "awkward magic" that is supposed to reinvent boxing and topple Floyd?

[Darth Nevets]

That's the thing, fighting isn't some abstract game that strictly follows rules of logic and has set moves and counter-moves. A novice won't beat an expert at Go, but this is fist-to-the-face-hard-as-you-can. Anything can happen, and in the end it's not all that complex. Floyd is a master at boxing, but fighting is a messy business unlike games, and there are no guarantees.

Boxing is a sport, pure and simple with an established and refined ruleset. If you carelessly walk up to a boxer to engage in wild brawl you will fail. Your punches will be ineffective in power, they'll land carelessly, your feet will betray you, strikes will blast you unaware, you will be beaten. A technical boxer will win in the sport easily against someone who could beat their ass in a fight if that person can't do the basics. It's like trying to be a designated hitter without being able to swing through the pitch.

The Floyd Sr. pull-counter bit was very important for a reason we're not talking about. In no other field could it ever work, in the streets you'd be on your ass, MMA has a dozen perfect counters for it that can't fail. A pro wrestler managed to embarrass Ali because he used techniques a boxer was unprepared for totally. Conor won't even have knowledge of his own defeat if Floyd wants it that way.

 

[ImNotSurpisedDonks!]

That's the thing, fighting isn't some abstract game that strictly follows rules of logic and has set moves and counter-moves. A novice won't beat an expert at Go, but this is fist-to-the-face-hard-as-you-can. Anything can happen, and in the end it's not all that complex. Floyd is a master at boxing, but fighting is a messy business unlike games, and there are no guarantees.

Exactly.

And Heather Hardy was on MMA Hour talking about how much better boxers were than MMA guys, but used guys from Longos as reference, citing how Spence played with them. Comparing the boxing of Weidman, Villante and Aljo to Conor is like comparing Conor's BJJ to Jacare's BJJ. I still maintain Conor's boxing is far and away the best we have seen in MMA and have not even seen him really tested, save for him gassing vs Diaz with all these extenuating circumstances (sick, antibiotics, put on too much weight too soon, etc).

Conor is one of the first boxing bases in MMA, and that is evident in his performances. Why is it that MMA has world champs in all other disciplines but it can't be in boxing? Boxing has never invited or been willing to accept MMA or it's fighters, while all other combat sports have been accommodating.

I don't think Conor's going to win but I do think he will possibly look better than anyone has vs Floyd in the first two rounds, owing to his style, incredible precision, unorthodox angles, reach, movement and all around awkwardness. He has always looked like a machine in the first couple of minutes in MMA, even in his losses. And let's not forget, this ain't science, it's a literal fist fight with two life long boxers and super elite athletes.

 

[Tonfa]

WRONG.

How on Earth would you know?

 

[Tonfa]

.

And Heather Hardy was on MMA Hour talking about how much better boxers were than MMA guys, but used guys from Longos as reference, citing how Spence played with them. Comparing the boxing of Weidman, Villante and Aljo to Conor is like comparing Conor's BJJ to Jacare's BJJ. s.

Uhh...Jacare is a multiple time world Jujitsu champion.

Conor attended the Crumlin Boxing club when he was 13

 

[Darth Nevets]

Conor is one of the first boxing bases in MMA, and that is evident in his performances. Why is it that MMA has world champs in all other disciplines but it can't be in boxing? Boxing has never invited or been willing to accept MMA or it's fighters, while all other combat sports have been accommodating.

I don't think Conor's going to win but I do think he will possibly look better than anyone has vs Floyd in the first two rounds, owing to his style, incredible precision, unorthodox angles, reach, movement and all around awkwardness. He has always looked like a machine in the first couple of minutes in MMA, even in his losses. And let's not forget, this ain't science, it's a literal fist fight with two life long boxers and super elite athletes.

All of this was wrong but I'll start. MMA has world champs FROM other disciplines because those people participated in sports where you can't make money. Ronda had a bronze in Judo but lived in a car. Boxing is a highly paid sport, if most MMA fighters had their choices they'd take that money any day. MMA fights won't translate to boxing success in the same way throwing a football isn't like throwing a baseball.

He will be the easiest fight Floyd has had in over a decade, there is not one thing he could do that is comparable to any of the fighters since Floyd stopped working jobbers. Hell he probably worked better jobbers.

 

[Mixedfights]

Boxing fans tryin to make boxing so damn complicated.

Fact of the matter is even if somebody did take the time to answer your long winded basic question, you would just argue it away anyways. You see no scenario where Conor could be successful. So, just sit back and hope your right.

 

[Darth Nevets]

Boxing fans tryin to make boxing so damn complicated.

Fact of the matter is even if somebody did take the time to answer your long winded basic question, you would just argue it away anyways. You see no scenario where Conor could be successful. So, just sit back and hope your right.

It's beyond immensely complicated, with a dozen factors influencing almost every second. People who are bad fighters are great boxers, tough guys can easily be useless in the sport.

Lets do this. Think of a quarterback with a weird release or weak arm strength who has won a Superbowl and now try to think of pitchers who won World Series with the same. The reason the first is so easy is because football (MMA) is not solely about pure skill and control of throwing (punching). It has elements like reading the defense, speed, the run option, and play calling. A pitcher who makes good selections can have some success but if he walks or leaves it over the plate then it's goodbye. With Conor this is a pitcher who throws spirals trying to learn a curveball for a start against the Yankees.

 

[dertdent]

In fighting there is a thing called giving your opponent a "look". A look being your stance, where you hold your hands, angles of your punches...etc. Once you figure out your opponents "look" you can anticipate his offensive and defensive moves. He has to change up his "look" to once again throw off your read. Floyd has seen hundreds of looks in the boxing ring and he quickly adjusts to each one. But Conor will give him looks he has never seen before. Boxing and mma are not simple reflex action sports where the fastest guy with the best technique wins. It is all based on anticipation, tricking your opponent into thinking you are making a move and hitting him with something else. A guy like Zab Judah had physical gifts equal to Floyd and hit harder. But Floyd could play the mental game faster and Judah couldn't keep up. We will see if Conor has the mental agility to keep up with Floyd, but he may not have to.

"There are some things that can beat smartness and foresight? Awkwardness and stupidity can. The best swordsman in the world doesn't need to fear the second best swordsman in the world; no, the person for him to be afraid of is some ignorant antagonist who has never had a sword in his hand before; he doesn't do the thing he ought to do, and so the expert isn't prepared for him; he does the thing he ought not to do; and often it catches the expert out and ends him on the spot. "

Mark Twain

 

[jlagman]

All I keep hearing are excuses for bad technique. Remember when people said jabs were useless in MMA? Or that head movement would result in an insta-high-kick-KO loss? Or, my personal favourite, "The boxing stance (as if there was only one) leaves you so open to takedowns", but without any explanation afterwards, just stated as if it were fact.

 

[Soul On Ice]

Those open workout video mean nothing
You will not find any video of how Conor intends to approach Floyd
He's giving as little away as possible.

 

[Marc A]

In fighting there is a thing called giving your opponent a "look". A look being your stance, where you hold your hands, angles of your punches...etc. Once you figure out your opponents "look" you can anticipate his offensive and defensive moves. He has to change up his "look" to once again throw off your read. Floyd has seen hundreds of looks in the boxing ring and he quickly adjusts to each one. But Conor will give him looks he has never seen before. Boxing and mma are not simple reflex action sports where the fastest guy with the best technique wins. It is all based on anticipation, tricking your opponent into thinking you are making a move and hitting him with something else. A guy like Zab Judah had physical gifts equal to Floyd and hit harder. But Floyd could play the mental game faster and Judah couldn't keep up. We will see if Conor has the mental agility to keep up with Floyd, but he may not have to.

"There are some things that can beat smartness and foresight? Awkwardness and stupidity can. The best swordsman in the world doesn't need to fear the second best swordsman in the world; no, the person for him to be afraid of is some ignorant antagonist who has never had a sword in his hand before; he doesn't do the thing he ought to do, and so the expert isn't prepared for him; he does the thing he ought not to do; and often it catches the expert out and ends him on the spot. "

Mark Twain

words are nice and poetic it gives hope to those with no hope, an inspiration for those in need, and makes mediocre people feel good

 

[ClckwrkOra]

All I hear about from the pro-Conor crowd is that Conor is going to use a multitude of unfamiliar and unorthodox movements that will confuse Mayweather enough that Conor can land. Can anyone point to any specifics?

As in, are there any specific movements or ways to throw punches or feints to set them up that you think would help Conor offensively more than it leaves him open defensively?

I've only seen a little bit of this "awkwardness" and most of it doesn't look too conducive.

Take this movement for example. As I wrote elsewhere, this head movement looks bad. His head is way too forward, his elbows flare out, and he backsteps with his front foot first instead of his back foot, leaving him square. L

This, I have no idea how it's supposed to work in a fight. Has anyone ever seen it done it before? Is it just an exercise?

People try comparing Conor to Maidana, but as I wrote earlier:

You have to know the rules in order to break them. In order to throw a boxer off with unconventional moves, you first have to know what they expect, and then subvert that expectation. People cite Maidana giving Floyd trouble or unconventional boxers like Roy, but the difference is they learned how to box correctly first (or at least conventionally), then added in what they found success with that bent the rules. In fact Maidana actually got better the more conventional he became under Garcia, at least on the outside. But in any case, it's after many many rounds against elite boxers. Knowing what they fall for, knowing what traps work most often, being able to follow their eyes and what feints they fall for, etc.

Otherwise you're not being unconventional, you're just being weird. Weird is not enough. If you put a fencer in there with Floyd, he's going to be weird, but it's not going to be successful. Put a street brawler in there, same thing. A Wing Chun specialist, same thing. Boxing techniques exist as they do because they work best for their own rule set. McGregor isn't going to discover a magical system-breaking anomaly that centuries of formalized participation and innovation didn't pioneer.

Conor may well come out awkward and give Floyd a little bit pause, but Floyd understands enough of the body mechanics in boxing that he'll see where the weight is distributed, see where the head/body is unprotected, and zero in on it time and time again. Just because it's weird doesn't mean its good. So far people are only using the concept and not giving any technical reason for how these movements should work in a boxing match at all.

A few breakdowns that show why you can't compare Maidana's boxing-based unorthodoxy to the awkwardness that comes from unfamiliarity:




So tell me, do people actually have any sense of what these unconventional awkward non-boxing movements that will throw Floyd off are supposed to be, or is it a hollow hypothesis based on wishful thinking?

With respect, guy, you're probably a bit much from the McGregor fanboys. Most MMA fans have zero first-hand experience in any combat arts.

The McGregor-will-win-unconventionally theory may sound nice. But pulling it off against one of the best ever would be a tall order.

McGregor's best chance may be to come early with something Floyd won't have seen in his McGregor tapes. But even that is a long shot.

 

[ColombianFist]

There's no such thing like you mention, TS.

Irish jabroni is at least a badly train amateur who is fighting the best defensive boxer of this era and what he will bring to this fight are his normal fight stance with that taekwondo stance in southpaw. the main thing here is, that he is no training with a pure boxing coach who can correct those vices like you pointed which he will do and floyd will exploit. i don't think the maidana strategy will work mostly because irish jabroni does not have that depth in boxing fundamentals like Maidana managed to improve thanks to Robert Garcia.

 

[ColombianFist]

words are nice and poetic it gives hope to those with no hope, an inspiration for those in need, and makes mediocre people feel good

that quote from Helio is for bjj. not applicable for boxing in certain parts.

 

[Marc A]

that quote from Helio is for bjj. not applicable for boxing in certain parts.

agreed but I did that for a specific reason, for the MMA experts who think boxers are biased

but the technique still holds water, there is a reason the tough men and wild fighters are on average more often than not beaten by the skillful boxer

 

[Bogotazo]

That's the thing, fighting isn't some abstract game that strictly follows rules of logic and has set moves and counter-moves. A novice won't beat an expert at Go, but this is fist-to-the-face-hard-as-you-can. Anything can happen, and in the end it's not all that complex. Floyd is a master at boxing, but fighting is a messy business unlike games, and there are no guarantees.

Go is a much better analogy for boxing than a street brawl is to boxing. It is quite complex, there are levels. The objective may be simple, but the steps to get there require a level of mastery. And there are certain universal rules to all fighting. Dominant position, balance, misdirection, control of distance, miniscule windows of opportunity, etc.

It's the same with soccer/football. Kick the ball into the net. It's not rocket science. Until you zero in on the micro-precision of elite players and the moving parts of a team's formation.

 

[Bogotazo]

Yeah, I didn't answer that because I don't have the answer. I know Conor is used to keeping a longer distance than a typical boxer and is a master at that range in MMA. He does a great job of changing speeds, is able to land that left exceptionally well across his body (moving away from his left is not as effective as one would think), he is able to throw effective strikes while tilting his spine at a relatively large angle (which creates punches coming from surprising angles), while moving mid step, while moving backwards, and while off balance. What I can't tell you is, is that different from the hundreds of other boxers Floyd has faced.

The biggest thing for me is I know Conor will be at his best in there as his ability to handle the spotlight is second to none and that the man is a great stand up fighter in MMA. The fact that we don't know how much all that means is why I want to watch.

Yeah respect man, I didn't expect you to answer it yourself but it's the question I'm interested in. Partially because I don't think there's actual thoughts behind the statements, but also because if someone can offer up some technique, it would greatly interest me.

For example Conor does this thing on the bag where he flails his arms in small circles while stepping in and out. Misdirection yes, but I think it might be more likely to get him clocked coming in. But maybe it will work for him in one sequence and he lands a right jab over the shoulder.

Or maybe it will just be Judah doing his 52 blocks shtick all over again lol

 

[Mixedfights]

Omg such bullshido.

We get it TS. You think boxing is rocket science.

 

[Bogotazo]

Omg such bullshido.

We get it TS. You think boxing is rocket science.

I mean, I posted facts. Do you disagree with the videos? Or do you have an answer to the thread title question?

 

[stingren]

Connor is just gonna Come forward ,switch stances and try land his left on floyd.everyone talks about how unorthodox his movement is ,but its not.
In mma his a counterpuncher almost exclusively.and when he fought Nate twice he walked Nate down slipping shots n countering .

He trains all that movement stuff when Ido portal then fights with no amazing movemnt