Bruce lee before he moved to America?

Frode Falch

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What and how much did bruce lee train before he came to America?

Its kinda hard to just Google it. To separate facts from just fiction.

The most well known stuff is that he trained wing chun with ip man. But how much? And what else.. Other styles? Ect..
 
Lee was assassinated.
 
resurrecting-the-dragon-ip-man-3-to-feature-digital-bruce-lee-bruce-lee-training-with-ma-322764.jpg


What and how much did bruce lee train before he came to America?

Its kinda hard to just Google it. To separate facts from just fiction.

The most well known stuff is that he trained wing chun with ip man. But how much? And what else.. Other styles? Ect..
I heard he did some western boxing
 
According to legend:
He was in some kind of gang. He decided to learn some kind of martial arts to defend himself. WC and CLF was the most prominent at that time. He chose WC. He used WC to destroy everybody and got into trouble when he beat up some rival gang's boss or some shit. So his parents flew him to America to escape the gang life cuz he was going to get killed. The End.
 
resurrecting-the-dragon-ip-man-3-to-feature-digital-bruce-lee-bruce-lee-training-with-ma-322764.jpg


What and how much did bruce lee train before he came to America?

Its kinda hard to just Google it. To separate facts from just fiction.

The most well known stuff is that he trained wing chun with ip man. But how much? And what else.. Other styles? Ect..
Theres a great dan insanto interview on youtube about it (search dan insanto talks bruce lee on youtube and itl be one pf them)
Hed trained in abit of a few different kung fu styles mainly wing chun
And hed done western boxing and fencing.
 
What and how much did bruce lee train before he came to America?

Its kinda hard to just Google it. To separate facts from just fiction.

The most well known stuff is that he trained wing chun with ip man. But how much? And what else.. Other styles? Ect..

In 1958 Bruce Lee won a high school boxing tournament using pure Wing Chun skills. Unheard of today, imagining pure Wing Chun beating a boxer, that's what Bruce Lee did. There are photos of him winning the tournament floating around the internet (finally) recently to show that Bruce did compete at some point.

Lee was a trouble maker but a dedicated martial artist. Bruce Lee trained with Yip Man for 4-5 years (13 to 18 age). Somewhere around his 1st to 2nd year in, he got in trouble with Yip Man's students for being 1/4 German, so he was refused to learn Wing Chun. However Yip Man loved Bruce Lee because he was very dedicated, so he transferred Lee to learn from Wong Shun Leung, the 1st Yip Man student and the top senior student. Lee looked up to WSL like an older brother, mentor, and friend. In fact, many of the concepts which Lee discovered later in JKD came from the mental teachings of WSL. Lee stated himself, in the 1970s before his death "If it wasn't for you, I wouldn't be here. You were the one that taught me how to take a more practical approach to fighting, instead of mysticism and forms."

There's really so much stuff to learn. Like when Lee came to America he did do MMA but only Asian arts. In 1960-1964 he was already studying many ancient arts through books and visited other schools like Choy Li Fut, despite having beef with them because in HK it was the CLF clan vs the WC clan all the time. In the states, Lee opened up his mind differently. He even learned Northern Shaolin stuff, and he found secret ways to get extreme power naturally by doing simple kung fu strikes and not needing to get hugely muscular for it. This all came from studying other arts and taking what he found useful. Lee began to add other stuff that he believed complemented his Wing Chun, so he didn't call it Wing Chun, he just called it Jun Fan Gung Fu, with Wing Chun being 80% of the base. It wasn't until later when JKD was created, Wing Chun only became about 30% of JKD, and boxing/kickboxing and fencing took a more dominant base.

You should try reading some of his books, the "before the JKD years" are really interesting.
 
In 1958 Bruce Lee won a high school boxing tournament using pure Wing Chun skills. Unheard of today, imagining pure Wing Chun beating a boxer, that's what Bruce Lee did. There are photos of him winning the tournament floating around the internet (finally) recently to show that Bruce did compete at some point.

Lee was a trouble maker but a dedicated martial artist. Bruce Lee trained with Yip Man for 4-5 years (13 to 18 age). Somewhere around his 1st to 2nd year in, he got in trouble with Yip Man's students for being 1/4 German, so he was refused to learn Wing Chun. However Yip Man loved Bruce Lee because he was very dedicated, so he transferred Lee to learn from Wong Shun Leung, the 1st Yip Man student and the top senior student. Lee looked up to WSL like an older brother, mentor, and friend. In fact, many of the concepts which Lee discovered later in JKD came from the mental teachings of WSL. Lee stated himself, in the 1970s before his death "If it wasn't for you, I wouldn't be here. You were the one that taught me how to take a more practical approach to fighting, instead of mysticism and forms."

There's really so much stuff to learn. Like when Lee came to America he did do MMA but only Asian arts. In 1960-1964 he was already studying many ancient arts through books and visited other schools like Choy Li Fut, despite having beef with them because in HK it was the CLF clan vs the WC clan all the time. In the states, Lee opened up his mind differently. He even learned Northern Shaolin stuff, and he found secret ways to get extreme power naturally by doing simple kung fu strikes and not needing to get hugely muscular for it. This all came from studying other arts and taking what he found useful. Lee began to add other stuff that he believed complemented his Wing Chun, so he didn't call it Wing Chun, he just called it Jun Fan Gung Fu, with Wing Chun being 80% of the base. It wasn't until later when JKD was created, Wing Chun only became about 30% of JKD, and boxing/kickboxing and fencing took a more dominant base.

You should try reading some of his books, the "before the JKD years" are really interesting.
adding some sauce to the above:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wong_Shun_Leung#Behind_the_Scene_Teacher_of_Bruce_Lee
 
I think Bruce would have competed if MMA was around in his day. He embraced strength and conditioning as part of martial arts and studied different disciplines. Philosophically his approach to training was similar to what we have now.

I heard a story where Bruce was training with a wrestler and the wrestler took him down and asked what he'd do if this was a real fight. Bruce replied: "I'd bite you, of course."
 
Not only to mention, one man who grappled with the Gracies who gave Rickson Gracie a humble grappling match, that man was connected to Bruce Lee, and he said "he was no match for Lee." This is coming straight out of the mouth a man who humbled Rickson Gracie in competitive skill in a grappling match.

He didn't say "Rickson is no match for Bruce." so, BJJ fanboys don't misunderstand, he meant himself, the guy that sparred Rickson.


I think Bruce would have competed if MMA was around in his day. He embraced strength and conditioning as part of martial arts and studied different disciplines. Philosophically his approach to training was similar to what we have now.

I heard a story where Bruce was training with a wrestler and the wrestler took him down and asked what he'd do if this was a real fight. Bruce replied: "I'd bite you, of course."

I still think JKD if it had more exposure to wrestling and BJJ, it is a fully complete art. It already had exposure to grappling but wasn't as emphasized and played around with today. In terms of standup, JKD is completely cutting edge and scientific, and very fresh. JKD is old school MMA. Pankration and all that other ancient MMA stuff, is ancient MMA. JKD is old school MMA.
 
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Not only to mention, one man who grappled with the Gracies who gave Rickson Gracie a humble grappling match, that man was connected to Bruce Lee, and he said "he was no match for Lee." This is coming straight out of the mouth a man who humbled Rickson Gracie in competitive skill in a grappling match.

He didn't say "Rickson is no match for Bruce." so, BJJ fanboys don't misunderstand, he meant himself, the guy that sparred Rickson.




I still think JKD if it had more exposure to wrestling and BJJ, it is a fully complete art. It already had exposure to grappling but wasn't as emphasized and played around with today. In terms of standup, JKD is completely cutting edge and scientific, and very fresh. JKD is old school MMA. Pankration and all that other ancient MMA stuff, is ancient MMA. JKD is old school MMA.

Who was the grappler?
 
Who was the grappler?

Hayward Nishioka (1942 - ), a 9th degree black belt in Judo, is also a Japanese-American community college physical education instructor and the former Judo Gold Medallist at the 1967 Pan American Games. He won five consecutive national championships from 1965 to 1970 and was ranked 5th in the world in 1965 and 1967. On January 13, 1987, Nishioka, at the age of 44, defeated challenger, Rickson Gracie (age 28) with a number of throws at his Judo school. Nishioka admitted training with Bruce in the 60s and personally sparred with Bruce. He was in awe of Bruce’s exceptional martial art prowess.

"I remember one time I was at Bruce's house," said Hayward Nishioka, who was voted into the BLACK BELT Hall of Fame twice for his judo, as both an instructor and a competitor. "I had done a little karate, but I couldn't hold a candle to him (Bruce). He was too fast for me; he would tap my head before I even got set. "Finally I asked Bruce what he would do if I just sat on the ground and waited for him to attack me," continued Nishioka. "He said he'd just walk away."
Says Hayward Nishioka, ‘He was the quickest person I’ve ever seen. In that area he was king. And he knew it. He had that same cockiness Americans have. Americans say, “I’m arrogant, and I’ll show you why. I can do it. I’m good.”

Nishioka said in fact, many martial artists had sparred with Bruce and had the similar experience as him but many would not admit, mainly because they were afraid of losing face. Richard Bustillo, a student of Dan Inosanto, said he personally saw a sparring session with Chuck Norris and Bruce that left Norris red faced. Grandmaster Jhoon Rhee said he would not spar Lee because he would knock you out. As Lee was experimenting and creating his own art, thus, he would take up most challenges. He sparred anyone who wanted to spar. He sincerely wanted to learn, grow and dedicate himself to being the best.

Bruce studied and mastered many different arts and techniques and was a very different martial artist in 72-73 than he was in the 60's. What is the consensus about Bruce from "real deal" fighters (Norris, Lewis, Wallace, Stone and Rhee) was that he was the fastest and possibly the strongest man that they had ever seen. Master Rhee has categorically stated: "I would demonstrate a kick to Bruce and a week later he would be able to do it as well as myself!"

Below is an excerpt of Nishioka’s interview from the book, “Bruce Lee: Conversations – The Life & Legacy of A Legend” by Fiaz Rafiq published on 19th July 2011. This book is a compilation of over 50 exclusive interviews with Bruce Lee's original students, friends, co-stars and colleagues such as Rhoon Ree, Ji Han Jae, Hwang In-Shik, Joe Lewis, Hayward Nishioka, Dan Inosanto, Jesse Glover etc. Furthermore, there are also exclusive interviews with some of the best professional boxers, bodybuilders, UFC fighters who pay homage to the legend.

According to Nishioka, when Bruce was living in LA, he would many times bring along a friend to witness this dynamo. Once he brought along Dr. Burt Siedler, a physical education professor at Cal state (LA). “When he first saw Bruce punching the speed bag,” Nishioka smiled, “he (Siedler) mentioned that if Bruce would seriously study boxing, he would be the lightweight champ in a year’s time.
Then, when he saw Bruce punch the heavy bag and jar it like a heavyweight with lefts and rights, he quickly changed his mind, saying that if Bruce should compete in the ring, he could become a champ in six months.
“Afterward Bruce told me to block his punches,” continued Nishioka. “Those punches were so fast that I couldn’t block any one of them. When Siedler saw that, he shook his head and changed his mind again, this time telling Bruce that he only needed one month to be the champ.”
Another time, Nishioka brought along a student of Shigeru Egami, a noted Karate Sensei (teacher) in Japan. Hashimoto, who was a fourth dan (degree) black belt, had never heard of Bruce Lee before. But it didn’t take him long to respect Bruce’s skills.

Nishioka used to go to Bruce house to train once a month, so, he understood why Bruce did not compete in the tournament. Bruce said why should he participate? He believed he had the ability to participate in such kind of “points-fighting” competition but he was not interested. Bruce had many tough training sessions with Chuck Norris, Joe Lewis and Bob Wall who were all first class fighters. In fact, Bruce’s speed was way too fast for them. He was so quick that he could move in and out of their sight before they could all react. Nishioka said this is the compliment made from those martial artists who had personally witnessed and sparred with Bruce, even those who have never praised him before, felt the same way. Bruce was an extraordinary martial artist. They may be reluctant to make these comments but Nishioka is very sure, they are very clear about this fact within their hearts.

Nishioka said Bruce was ahead of his time. He was always training extremely hard for street combat. He liked jogging which was why he was able to maintain his great physical condition. In the past, martial arts practitioners never regard jogging as a kind of physical fitness training. If they practice martial arts, then they would just practice martial arts. As a result, they did not have the successful foundation liked Bruce. If your cup contained the content of weightlifting, power training, strategy etc., and you practice JKD, then your cup would be filled with the necessary ingredients. However, if your cup is only filled with techniques, then, you would not be able to fight effectively and at a high energy level.

In addition, Nishioka said the martial arts skills Bruce learnt and practiced surpassed anyone at that time. This made him and his martial arts stood out among the rest.
Every time I sparred with Bruce, I felt that regardless of the techniques or the content, Bruce was always coming out with something new. I have completely no doubt about his ability in participating in the tournament. In fact, in real fighting without rules and regulations, I believed Bruce was 4 times more terrifying than in the competition.

Indeed, Bruce Lee was a master with such a complete combination of philosophy, strategy, physical condition, power, speed, skills and passion who came along very rarely. He was just one in a zillion. Bruce Lee was definitely not a tournament fighter but he was definitely a street fighter who trained much more professionally than anyone else and that was what he did and focused daily.

Photos of Hayward Nishioka and Bruce Lee: http://postimg.org/image/nyluku2gp/
 
Hayward Nishioka (1942 - ), a 9th degree black belt in Judo, is also a Japanese-American community college physical education instructor and the former Judo Gold Medallist at the 1967 Pan American Games. He won five consecutive national championships from 1965 to 1970 and was ranked 5th in the world in 1965 and 1967. On January 13, 1987, Nishioka, at the age of 44, defeated challenger, Rickson Gracie (age 28) with a number of throws at his Judo school. Nishioka admitted training with Bruce in the 60s and personally sparred with Bruce. He was in awe of Bruce’s exceptional martial art prowess.

"I remember one time I was at Bruce's house," said Hayward Nishioka, who was voted into the BLACK BELT Hall of Fame twice for his judo, as both an instructor and a competitor. "I had done a little karate, but I couldn't hold a candle to him (Bruce). He was too fast for me; he would tap my head before I even got set. "Finally I asked Bruce what he would do if I just sat on the ground and waited for him to attack me," continued Nishioka. "He said he'd just walk away."

Pretty clear this quotation is about Bruce Lees striking ability and fitness not grappling skill. In fact Bruce comes off as either not trusting his ground game or thinking it is kind of silly, since he would walk away rather than fight on the ground.

Its kind of odd he never competed in judo or wrestling. And it seems like if he was good at boxing and interested in it he'd have competed more.

I'm not sure he would have competed much in MMA if it existed at his time. Theoretically he could have created his own sport and rule set, kind of like the Gracies did. Since he didn't its safe to say completion wasn't important to him.

Of course nowadays he'd compete some because its kind of expected, but he'd probably do it for a short time.
 
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Some great stuff in this thread. Thanks alot guys.

<5>
 
If you look inside Tao of JKD, you will see that BL wanted to add some wrestling and Judo. I heard he took a Judo class in college but hated it. He felt that it too much raw strength. He still trained with Wally Jay and Nishioka to try to add some TJJ and Judo into his repertoire. You can Google a pic of BL doing Juji-Gatame. He was not that great at JJ, however.
 
Pretty clear this quotation is about Bruce Lees striking ability and fitness not grappling skill. In fact Bruce comes off as either not trusting his ground game or thinking it is kind of silly, since he would walk away rather than fight on the ground.

I think what Bruce meant in that context is like, "In a street fight, why would I want to roll on the ground with you if you were doing me harm? I'd just walk away from this type of encounter."

It was more through a street fighter's lens rather than "here come roll and wrestle with me"

Bruce learned grappling because he exchanged his stand up striking techniques with people like Wally Jay (notable Judo artist), Jesse Glover (Judo), and he also learned from Hayward Nishioka and a LITTLE bit from Gene Lebell. There was also photos around the internet in recent years of Bruce Lee wearing a judo gi with a black belt, so that must be from either Wally Jay's private classes or Hayward Nishioka.

Later on in 1970-1973 Bruce started playing around with wrestling a lot and more in depth with Judo. He wanted to teach his son Brandon Lee the importance of Judo; and in Lee's movies he already started incorporating wrestling and jiujitsu into his fights like the opening fight in ETD and the wrestling part against Kareem Abdul Jabbar in "Game of Death"
 
The photos, are most definitely, Bruce Lee.

It's rare to see Bruce Lee wearing a judo/karate gi... he would only wear traditional Chinese clothes but certainly not traditional Japanese clothes. He was always Chinese at heart, so back in those days it was weird to see a Chinese guy wearing a Japanese uniform. Asians have racism among each other; it isn't just white skin black skin. Other yellow skins had beef with each other.

I think Bruce Lee would do well in UFC. He knew how to box, how to kick, how to trap in the clinch range, some stand up ground game and some wrestling and jiujitsu. If people could even TAKE Bruce Lee to the ground, then they might get lucky, but as far as stand up goes, Bruce Lee has got the stand up game down to a T.
 
The photos, are most definitely, Bruce Lee.


I think Bruce Lee would do well in UFC. He knew how to box, how to kick, how to trap in the clinch range, some stand up ground game and some wrestling and jiujitsu. If people could even TAKE Bruce Lee to the ground, then they might get lucky, but as far as stand up goes, Bruce Lee has got the stand up game down to a T.

More likely he would have done well in Shooto as that organization had a lower weight class in the 90's. In the UFC Royce Gracie even would be bigger than him. He'd have to train BJJ and wrestling full time for a couple years to even out the size advantage not only with Royce but with the people Royce beat.

Today he pretty much would have to take an entirely different career path than he did, he'd have to start competing at a young age and be pretty disciplined about it.

Interestingly enough Cung Lee did just that but is less well known today.
 
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In 1958 Bruce Lee won a high school boxing tournament using pure Wing Chun skills. Unheard of today, imagining pure Wing Chun beating a boxer, that's what Bruce Lee did. There are photos of him winning the tournament floating around the internet (finally) recently to show that Bruce did compete at some point.

Lee was a trouble maker but a dedicated martial artist. Bruce Lee trained with Yip Man for 4-5 years (13 to 18 age). Somewhere around his 1st to 2nd year in, he got in trouble with Yip Man's students for being 1/4 German, so he was refused to learn Wing Chun. However Yip Man loved Bruce Lee because he was very dedicated, so he transferred Lee to learn from Wong Shun Leung, the 1st Yip Man student and the top senior student. Lee looked up to WSL like an older brother, mentor, and friend. In fact, many of the concepts which Lee discovered later in JKD came from the mental teachings of WSL. Lee stated himself, in the 1970s before his death "If it wasn't for you, I wouldn't be here. You were the one that taught me how to take a more practical approach to fighting, instead of mysticism and forms."

There's really so much stuff to learn. Like when Lee came to America he did do MMA but only Asian arts. In 1960-1964 he was already studying many ancient arts through books and visited other schools like Choy Li Fut, despite having beef with them because in HK it was the CLF clan vs the WC clan all the time. In the states, Lee opened up his mind differently. He even learned Northern Shaolin stuff, and he found secret ways to get extreme power naturally by doing simple kung fu strikes and not needing to get hugely muscular for it. This all came from studying other arts and taking what he found useful. Lee began to add other stuff that he believed complemented his Wing Chun, so he didn't call it Wing Chun, he just called it Jun Fan Gung Fu, with Wing Chun being 80% of the base. It wasn't until later when JKD was created, Wing Chun only became about 30% of JKD, and boxing/kickboxing and fencing took a more dominant base.

You should try reading some of his books, the "before the JKD years" are really interesting.
Id read he trained boxing for his boxing tournament ..in fact he loved western boxing,fencing and dance
His bro won fencing tournaments and bruce won boxing and dance tourneys
The b.s that he used just wing chun in a boxing tourney is a tma fantasy tale!
 
Id read he trained boxing for his boxing tournament ..in fact he loved western boxing,fencing and dance
His bro won fencing tournaments and bruce won boxing and dance tourneys
The b.s that he used just wing chun in a boxing tourney is a tma fantasy tale!
I dunno man, kung fu is pretty strong.
 
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