Bisping Comments on Chin Positioning

[BJ@LW&WW]

Striking noob here. Just curious what you all think. Is there a situation or a type of stance that makes tucking the chin undesirable? it seems to me even with a wide base karate type stance, there's no real reason not to tuck your chin right?

Inspired by another thread made about this video because of how harsh bisping was to karen

 

[Sinister]

No. There are reasons fighters have difficulty keeping their chins down (and chests up, which is the main issue), but none of those reasons should be done on purpose.

 

[a guy]

Totally with Bisping on this one.

There's a whole culture around MMA that takes the idea of something not being a problem as long as it doesn't get you in trouble way too far. It's how MMA fans are constantly shocked when an "unbeatable" fighter like Silva gets knocked out by Weidman, or Rousey gets destroyed by Holm, or Cruz gets embarrassed by Garbrandt, or Barao gets dominated by TJ. Flaws are routinely ignored or even praised in fighters as long as they're winning, even if they struggle during some of those wins. Not tucking the chin is never under any circumstance advantageous. It's not a stylistic choice, it's a mistake. Just because a guy can get away with something doesn't make it a good idea.

 

[rmongler]

I've noticed that a lot of guys from karate and tma backgrounds in general (which is a bit of a misnomer really since most of what are called tma's were innovated in the 20th century or later) tend to have a thing with not rolling with the punches.

And i don't mean being evasive, or even using head movement, but rather, that instinct for when you know you're getting hit, and flowing with it to reduce the impact.

It's something i suppose that can only come from many hours put in sparring.

 

[Sano]

I've noticed that a lot of guys from karate and tma backgrounds in general (which is a bit of a misnomer really since most of what are called tma's were innovated in the 20th century or later) tend to have a thing with not rolling with the punches.

And i don't mean being evasive, or even using head movement, but rather, that instinct for when you know you're getting hit, and flowing with it to reduce the impact.

It's something i suppose that can only come from many hours put in sparring.

It's very hard to do, especially without good coaching.

 

[aerius]

There's a whole culture around MMA that takes the idea of something not being a problem as long as it doesn't get you in trouble way too far. It's how MMA fans are constantly shocked when an "unbeatable" fighter like Silva gets knocked out by Weidman, or Rousey gets destroyed by Holm, or Cruz gets embarrassed by Garbrandt, or Barao gets dominated by TJ. Flaws are routinely ignored or even praised in fighters as long as they're winning, even if they struggle during some of those wins. Not tucking the chin is never under any circumstance advantageous. It's not a stylistic choice, it's a mistake. Just because a guy can get away with something doesn't make it a good idea.

Gotta love MMA culture, where every fighter with a unique or cool looking style is "innovating the sport" and unstoppable while he's winning, and a complete bum as soon as someone figures out how to exploit the flaws and beat him.

It's true, all the fighters you've listed had clear flaws which had been pointed out by knowledgeable people 'round here, along with the ways in which those flaws could be exploited by the right opponent. For instance myself & others had noted that Ronda could be hit with clean lead hooks all night long, and that the way to beat Cruz was to make him come to you instead of chasing him around. And that was key in how both of them were beaten by Holm and Garbrandt.

Every fighter has flaws & habits which can be exploited, the fun part is figuring out how to do it.

I've noticed that a lot of guys from karate and tma backgrounds in general (which is a bit of a misnomer really since most of what are called tma's were innovated in the 20th century or later) tend to have a thing with not rolling with the punches.

And i don't mean being evasive, or even using head movement, but rather, that instinct for when you know you're getting hit, and flowing with it to reduce the impact.

It's something i suppose that can only come from many hours put in sparring.

I think it's just not taught. I spent quite a few years in TKD and dabbled a bit in karate, head movement & rolling with punches was never taught. We learned to block and evade strikes with footwork & distancing, but there was very little instruction on head movement and nothing on how to roll with strikes. They didn't even teach us to tuck our chins.

Much later in my life I joined a boxing gym. Whole world of difference. They taught us proper stance & posture including tucking the chin, and we had lots of drills on head movement and how to slip, fade, and roll with the punches.

 

[Azam]

I think it's just not taught. I spent quite a few years in TKD and dabbled a bit in karate, head movement & rolling with punches was never taught. We learned to block and evade strikes with footwork & distancing, but there was very little instruction on head movement and nothing on how to roll with strikes. They didn't even teach us to tuck our chins.

Much later in my life I joined a boxing gym. Whole world of difference. They taught us proper stance & posture including tucking the chin, and we had lots of drills on head movement and how to slip, fade, and roll with the punches.

It depends on the style of Karate.

If you do a karate style that fights long - you won't typically learn specific types of head movement like bobbing/weaving or slipping for example - you will learn head movements like keeping your head off centre or ducking.

The reason it's like that is because those styles of karate will not engage in the pocket for any significant amount of time. The ideal is to move into range to strike then move out without getting hit (hit & don't get hit - a bit like boxing in that sense). Karate styles like shotokan and tkd (which is heavily influenced by shotokan) were very influenced by japanese swordsmanship - in particular kendo & Iaido. This is because Funakoshi who brought karate to the Japanese mainland was taught by Anko Asato - a jigen ryu kendo & karate master.

The main defensive things you will learn in most Karate styles is distancing, blocking/parrying & some head movement in that particular order. I mean I've never encountered one of the older karate styles ever teaching bobbing/weaving or slipping punches - they tend to focus very heavily on parrying/distance with a little head movement chucked in.

 

[kuka45]

Something about Bisping and his chin: