Any Marvel experts? Some questions on TOAA, Beyonder, LT etc.

[KingOfAllWar]

Recently I started researching comics and was curious of who is the ONE true king of comics, the unbeatable and the conclusion I came to was The One-Above-All and The Living Tribunal who is second 'only' to TOAA.

But then comes the Pre-retcon Beyonder who is ridiculously powerful and was millions of times more powerful than all the multi-verse superheros combined.

So TOAA vs. The Beyonder? I can only see a draw as they are both omnipotent.

So onto the Living Tribunal, how does he get killed by The Beyonders? He is second ONLY to TOAA and controls every universe but he is now dead on the moon?

And lastly is The Beyonder from the race of The Beyonders or are they two separate beings?

 

[Killer ofTrolls]

Recently I started researching comics and was curious of who is the ONE true king of comics, the unbeatable and the conclusion I came to was The One-Above-All and The Living Tribunal who is second 'only' to TOAA.

But then comes the Pre-retcon Beyonder who is ridiculously powerful and was millions of times more powerful than all the multi-verse superheros combined.

So TOAA vs. The Beyonder? I can only see a draw as they are both omnipotent.

So onto the Living Tribunal, how does he get killed by The Beyonders? He is second ONLY to TOAA and controls every universe but he is now dead on the moon?

And lastly is The Beyonder from the race of The Beyonders or are they two separate beings?

The first version of Beyonder should be able to beat anything and anyone in Marvel.
TOAA is basically the Writer's manifistation with-in the story. and yes, its the considered the strongest character in fiction by all comicbook/anime forums.
There is also the question of Squirl Girl that basically beats people off panel and breaks fourth wall, not like deadpool does it, but literally is drawn comming out of panels. Very Loneytoon like but without the comic releif(even though she kind of is one)

Still, The answer to your questoin is The One Above All. He is stronger than any fictional character in movies/comics/novels etc...

 

[KingOfAllWar]

Is squirrel girl a serious character? I got the gist that she's a fun character to lighten some of the godlike villians.

TOAA is essentially god but what does that make The Beyonder? Because it says that the multivers is but a drop of rain to the Beyonders beyond realm.

 

[Ayin]

Comics Explained (on Youtube) has a pretty good breakdown of all of these, as well as a good breakdown of where the Cosmic Entities stand in relation to each other. If you've got the time, check out his videos on The Beyonder, the Cosmic Entities, the One Above All, and Franklin Richards (I actually both like and agree with his observation/theory that Franklin Richards acts constantly to stabilize the Marvel universe, he's basically the extension of the industries decision that nothing really changes).

 

[scrubido]

Toaa rules over all. Thats it.

 

[Kanster]

We all know Bats beats all these cans.

 

[Frank23]

Batman with prep time = GOAT

 

[Mondo Freaks]

DC v Marvel had their respective Universes as personified beings that were much stronger than the ones you listed.

Actually they merge, so that being is the strongest.

 

[faustian]

I am indeed a Marvel expert and I'm actually pretty offended that there was no mention of Galactus in the OP. Galactus is only the most powerful mutant in the entire Marvel/DC universe.

 

[scrubido]

DC v Marvel had their respective Universes as personified beings that were much stronger than the ones you listed.

Actually they merge, so that being is the strongest.

The person that wrote that story should be shot and killed.

 

[Killer ofTrolls]

Is squirrel girl a serious character? I got the gist that she's a fun character to lighten some of the godlike villians.

TOAA is essentially god but what does that make The Beyonder? Because it says that the multivers is but a drop of rain to the Beyonders beyond realm.

The thing is, this topic goes alot deeper than you thing.
It depends on who writes the characters and when, and shit.
You should go to some battle forums like comicvine or animevice, and see for yourself. debating these things is a brain teaser.

I remmember I saw one post in a thread someone actually argued Jagernaught vs a version of beyonder. I'm not kidding. the post was so long it took me a long time to scroll, it was over thousands of lines. that's a very rare case though...

There are lots of stuff you can learn easily by lurking like I did.
PIS(plot induced stupidity) for Character induced stupidity, Tanking something(level of duribility).
Also it wouldn't hurt to check the Outskirts battle dome wiki. The best source for battle forum debates, almost a consensus.

 

[Ayin]

Is squirrel girl a serious character? I got the gist that she's a fun character to lighten some of the godlike villians.

Squirrel Girl is a neat character (again, Comics Explained has a neat little vid on her), and her 4th wall breaking is basically identical to how She-Hulk used to be portrayed (though She-Hulk did some really neat things in her title, like chasing villains across ad pages and tearing from through a page so that she's entering on the opposite side of the page, really neat little things).

She's not a serious character in that no major storyline is ever going to include 'let's get Squirrel Girl, she can handle Thanos!' or any such solution.

TOAA is essentially god but what does that make The Beyonder? Because it says that the multivers is but a drop of rain to the Beyonders beyond realm.

Levels of infinity is really what needs to be understood when talking about comic books and their all powerful characters. One can be all-powerful in it's specific realm (ie, all powerful when it comes to even numbers) and another all-powerful when it comes to another realm (all powerful when it comes to odd numbers), and still a third all powerful in that it has power over both realms (even and odd). The last is more powerful than either the first two, but all are 'all-powerful'.

Then of course you have creatures like Eternity which are all powerful in their specific dimension/reality (also the way the Infinity Gauntlet works, giving it's bearer power only in it's reality of origin, allowing the bearer of the Infinity Gauntlet to overpower Eternity, but still not have power over the Living Tribunal).

At some point will some character or story device be more powerful than the One Above All? No doubt, everything that can happen will eventually happen in comics, but really nothing is more powerful than the OAA.

Where some creature might have all the even numbers and some other all the odd numbers, and some other all the numbers, and yet some other power over all math, the OAA is still the guy holding the pencil and the paper.

 

[Mondo Freaks]

The person that wrote that story should be shot and killed.

LMAO. Honestly I just looked at the pics. The story was pretty bad. Thor v Cpt Marvel was pretty cool though.

 

[Killer ofTrolls]

Batman with prep time = GOAT

Batman is DC not marvel. And no, for reasons to long to debate here.

I am indeed a Marvel expert and I'm actually pretty offended that there was no mention of Galactus in the OP. Galactus is only the most powerful mutant in the entire Marvel/DC universe.

Galactus is not a mutant, he is the survivor of an race that lived before the big bang, unless you're talking about some dumb retcon I missed.
Lots of people have beaten the shit out of galactus, that its not even funny.

DC v Marvel had their respective Universes as personified beings that were much stronger than the ones you listed.

Actually they merge, so that being is the strongest.

Doesn't work like that, and that crossover is non-canon.
U need actual texual evidence, TOAA is still the strongest for being Stan Lee incarnate with-in the narrative.
You're talking about Ying and Yang brothers. those don't exist outside that crossover, DC's vesion of TOAA is the precense and would woop those 2, but is weaker than TOAA.

 

[Mondo Freaks]

Doesn't work like that, and that crossover is non-canon.
U need actual texual evidence, TOAA is still the strongest for being Stan Lee incarnate with-in the narrative.
You're talking about Ying and Yang brothers. those don't exist outside that crossover, DC's vesion of TOAA is the precense and would woop those 2, but is weaker than TOAA.

right on.

Also, cant Scarlet Witch and the Fantastic 4's son manipulate reality? Are TOAA and other God like beings affected by Scarlet Witch and Fantastic 4's son?

I remember when Onslaught captured Fantastic 4's son, he created a pocket Universe for the Heroes Reborn saga.

 

[Jarnee]

Recently I started researching comics and was curious of who is the ONE true king of comics, the unbeatable and the conclusion I came to was The One-Above-All and The Living Tribunal who is second 'only' to TOAA.

But then comes the Pre-retcon Beyonder who is ridiculously powerful and was millions of times more powerful than all the multi-verse superheros combined.

So TOAA vs. The Beyonder? I can only see a draw as they are both omnipotent.

So onto the Living Tribunal, how does he get killed by The Beyonders? He is second ONLY to TOAA and controls every universe but he is now dead on the moon?

And lastly is The Beyonder from the race of The Beyonders or are they two separate beings?

Living Tribunal was created in late 60s by Stan Lee, OTAA in the mid late 70s by another writer and the Beyonder was written in mid-late 80s by yet another writer/Marvel editer in chief. So, they almost have nothing do to with each other except being Marvel. So just as you could write a character who is infinte, but I want to make a stonger character so I make him infinte + 1

So- every time a writer wanted to make a omnipotent character he had to give them almost/actual infinite powers- especially by the time of the Beyonder. Plus they usually only show up for a few editions and never heard from for a long time, so they will never meet or fight or anything.

OTAA was written by Stan Lee so he could never be changed and he will get the consensus stongest. OTAA was also written as the god like character while beyonder was like a infitely powered mischief maker who wanted to see everyone in Marvvel have fight- not that 'god like' despite being so powerful.

 

[minute bull]

I grew up reading Marvel and I ain't never heard of the One Above All until Sherdog, and basically some motherfucker brings up this question every now and again.

Looks like TOAA is the meta-equivalent for the God most Americans allude to. There are numerous depictions of that god in comics, but I have a feeling none are written with such reverence, coming real close to breaking the fourth wall. Kind of an acknowledgement that comic book characters, while great, never exceed the gods of "real life."

ALL STAR SUPERMAN dramatized this concept by implying Superman, in order to determine what would happen should he die, created a universe without a Superman (which is our universe, and in it we see Superman being created as a comic book character, hearkening to the old adage, "If there is no god, we would create him anyway").

 

[Fedorgasm]

The One Above All is more powerful, because the beyonder would qualify as being part of "all"

 

[Frank23]

 

[KingOfAllWar]

I am indeed a Marvel expert and I'm actually pretty offended that there was no mention of Galactus in the OP. Galactus is only the most powerful mutant in the entire Marvel/DC universe.

From what i've read Galactus is a toy to some of the fiends roaming the Marvel universe.

The thing is, this topic goes alot deeper than you thing.
It depends on who writes the characters and when, and shit.
You should go to some battle forums like comicvine or animevice, and see for yourself. debating these things is a brain teaser.

I remmember I saw one post in a thread someone actually argued Jagernaught vs a version of beyonder. I'm not kidding. the post was so long it took me a long time to scroll, it was over thousands of lines. that's a very rare case though...

There are lots of stuff you can learn easily by lurking like I did.
PIS(plot induced stupidity) for Character induced stupidity, Tanking something(level of duribility).
Also it wouldn't hurt to check the Outskirts battle dome wiki. The best source for battle forum debates, almost a consensus.

+1 to this, it seems to go in circles, I read one topic where Beyonder could beat TOAA and then another where TOAA and LT could beat the Beyonder and these guys were really clued up.

Squirrel Girl is a neat character (again, Comics Explained has a neat little vid on her), and her 4th wall breaking is basically identical to how She-Hulk used to be portrayed (though She-Hulk did some really neat things in her title, like chasing villains across ad pages and tearing from through a page so that she's entering on the opposite side of the page, really neat little things).

She's not a serious character in that no major storyline is ever going to include 'let's get Squirrel Girl, she can handle Thanos!' or any such solution.



Levels of infinity is really what needs to be understood when talking about comic books and their all powerful characters. One can be all-powerful in it's specific realm (ie, all powerful when it comes to even numbers) and another all-powerful when it comes to another realm (all powerful when it comes to odd numbers), and still a third all powerful in that it has power over both realms (even and odd). The last is more powerful than either the first two, but all are 'all-powerful'.

Then of course you have creatures like Eternity which are all powerful in their specific dimension/reality (also the way the Infinity Gauntlet works, giving it's bearer power only in it's reality of origin, allowing the bearer of the Infinity Gauntlet to overpower Eternity, but still not have power over the Living Tribunal).

At some point will some character or story device be more powerful than the One Above All? No doubt, everything that can happen will eventually happen in comics, but really nothing is more powerful than the OAA.

Where some creature might have all the even numbers and some other all the odd numbers, and some other all the numbers, and yet some other power over all math, the OAA is still the guy holding the pencil and the paper.

Thanks for an indepth reply. Thing I took most is obviously the writer is the one who decides who is king and what not. I find it confusing because Beyonder is from the beyond realm which TOAA has no power over? I'm seeing why he was ret-conned lol

Living Tribunal was created in late 60s by Stan Lee, OTAA in the mid late 70s by another writer and the Beyonder was written in mid-late 80s by yet another writer/Marvel editer in chief. So, they almost have nothing do to with each other except being Marvel. So just as you could write a character who is infinte, but I want to make a stonger character so I make him infinte + 1

So- every time a writer wanted to make a omnipotent character he had to give them almost/actual infinite powers- especially by the time of the Beyonder. Plus they usually only show up for a few editions and never heard from for a long time, so they will never meet or fight or anything.

OTAA was written by Stan Lee so he could never be changed and he will get the consensus stongest. OTAA was also written as the god like character while beyonder was like a infitely powered mischief maker who wanted to see everyone in Marvvel have fight- not that 'god like' despite being so powerful.

Was Beyonder de-powered in the multiverse then?

I grew up reading Marvel and I ain't never heard of the One Above All until Sherdog, and basically some motherfucker brings up this question every now and again.

Looks like TOAA is the meta-equivalent for the God most Americans allude to. There are numerous depictions of that god in comics, but I have a feeling none are written with such reverence, coming real close to breaking the fourth wall. Kind of an acknowledgement that comic book characters, while great, never exceed the gods of "real life."

ALL STAR SUPERMAN dramatized this concept by implying Superman, in order to determine what would happen should he die, created a universe without a Superman (which is our universe, and in it we see Superman being created as a comic book character, hearkening to the old adage, "If there is no god, we would create him anyway").

Thor mentions a creator at some point and I think LT mentions only one is above him also but no idea how much TOAA is involved throughout stories.

The One Above All is more powerful, because the beyonder would qualify as being part of "all"

Not if he is from the beyond realm though?