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No.... no, this is one theory. It's not the reason.
Are there other theories about this? Serious question.
No.... no, this is one theory. It's not the reason.
LOL. I'm off to repost these on another forum.
I believed this was one of the most unpractical blocks through most of my training. I thought I will never use this block in sparring because nobody will ever do a karate chop, downward to the top of my head. I never used this block until I did a kyokushin tournament, and it saved my ass bigtime. I did a spinning hook kick and the guy just moved back slightly and delivered one of his own while my leg was still in the air. I saw it coming I saw the opening to escape from being struck but he was coming too fast. BOOM upper block. I intercepted that spinning hook kick and saved my ass. never again will I talk bad about the upper block.
One block that I'm pretty sure I will never, ever, ever use though is the knifehand block. It looks really cool, but really, I mean what the fuck is that shit?
Well it seems impractical as well because it wasnt intended to be a block. It was a strike. When in close you rammed the fore arm upward into the opponents jaw or face to create space to then follow up on.
Thats whats wrong with kata . It's original intention was to be a means to preserve techniques in an age where people didnt have modern technology to record them and often were illiterate. However the problem with this means is it was almost impossible to keep them in line with the founders ideas thus moves become forgotten or bastardized down the generations.
I would say it was originally nothing than another swinging strike where you would connect with your forearm or side of hand
like this
PIMP GETS KO'd by KARATE MASTER! - YouTube
:icon_lol:
Are there other theories about this? Serious question.
The only talk I've heard about it so far at my wado dojo is that you are supposed to use the the momentum gained from the retracting motion on one side to add power to your strike exploding out on the other side.
I have heard the "you're pulling someone to you" theory, and maybe there's something to it, but in my opinion there are questions raised by this interpretation. For instance, why in the kata did the creators not create a specific grabbing motion? It seems to me they would have, not only to program muscle memory but also just to be clear. Second, you're really expected to grab some and pull them to you after EVERY hand technique? Because it's not like you retract your hand to your hip only after certain moves . . . you do it after EVERY move. Lastly, I'll just point out--for whatever it's worth--that early Shotokan competition videos that still survive didn't involve anyone grabbing their opponent and pulling them into a strike. It seems that, unless this secret of the art had already been lost by then, they would.
Are there other theories about this? Serious question.
Interesting. If nothing else, I think that Kenpo principles could be applied to any style to good effect.
Dance routines? All I've seen here is compliant demos. Do they even spar? How much of those mega hit combos can they actually pull off?
Alright, long winded rant coming up..
There's an interesting phenomenon that's taken over the karate world: the need to find deeper meaning in all the techniques we had learned when we were beginners. And it's kind of come at the realization that, well, those beginner techniques are as useful as a can of beans in a fist fight (unless you use that can of beans to strike someone in the face, but I digress). People belonging to smaller Karate organizations, armed with the power of the internet, are going all around to try and make sense of hip chambering, of high blocks, of cat stance and even of bowing before your kata....
And people are getting popular because of it. Karatekas such as Iain Abernethy have now become internet sensations because they are 'discovering' the secret meaning of Katas; even though if you have ever watched Iain's seminars, the punch/kick training portions are subpar and uninspiring, and all his students throw sloppy haymakers with little control....
It seems a common 'belief' in many organizations is that the beginners Karate moves we have learned are all grappling techniques; the high block is after a grab to break an arm, the hip chamber is pulling an arm towards you, the cat stance is a great way to grab a charging saber-toothed tiger.. Yet, these answers don't really solve the question of: why are beginners Karate techniques so worthless....?
Futhermore, it doesn't really help make sense of the kata... in older forms of Karate, the high block in katas has someone sticking his hand up and 'grabbing' with one hand then throwing high blocks up with the other hand. This has been used as evidence for the 'grabbing and striking aspect' of the high block. Yet, why do we do it three times in a row? Are we breaking a guys arm twice? Are we fighting an octopus?
Let's take the Karate hip chamber during a gyaku zuki. Now, this is not the way you'd want to punch someone in real life, you want to keep your guard up. So, why teach it? The grabbing idea is nice and it certainly is applicable, but why would you grab him downward to your hip? He will lose balance and you risk throwing him into an area where you can't hit him cleanly....
These fighters aren't shooting their punches from guard, they're winding up and throwing a fully loaded cross or hook. That's the same concept when one throws a karate punch and wants to put all his power in it, especially since the hand placements in our stances are much lower than other styles: the lead hand is out and guides the opponent so he can't break distance, the back hand stays a bit lower to protect our body (that was kind of a Shotokan breakdown, I know Goju/Wado/Kyokushin can be a bit different). It's easy to draw that rear hand back to throw a full powered punch. Likewise, the lead hand can be drawn back during the punch to load a combination, kind of like how a boxer throws a cross and brings his other hand down for an uppercut. No one in their right mind advocates doing this all the time, but just like how you see boxers drop their guard to throw combinations or wind up to throw a knockout blow, (here's my favorite example of a boxer 'chamber') there's times when it should hapen.
But I simply don't believe, from all that I have gathered, that hip chambering is simply a grabbing technique that we've forgotten about. Like all techniques, it's how we ingrain throwing a wound up punch, so when the opportunity arises, we wont just throw a haymaker, we'll throw a hip chambered reverse punch. Now, does this explanation justify why beginner techniques are so useless and justify drilling them until we can actually learn to defend ourselves? I don't know. That's an opinion I don't want to get into. But the logic makes sense to me.
Anyway, to throw in my two cents:
Dance routines? All I've seen here is compliant demos. Do they even spar? How much of those mega hit combos can they actually pull off?
Kata are essentially a syllabus for what should be studied. Just like a class syllabus tells you what you will be covering in the course but to learn the course, you still have to read the chapters in the textbook. Remember that true karate, the way it was originally taught before it was "sportified" to be acceptable to the Japanese authorities (for public schools, etc.) at the beginning of the 1900's was all about fighting. So there are no "guards", no guarding hands, in karate (just as you don't have those in a real fight once the clash has begun). In other words, there are no hands that are just sitting around doing nothing--just waiting. Both hands are in the fight. One might be striking while the other is clearing obstructions (moving the other guys hands out of the way, making and opening, trapping, and..yes...maybe pulling)....I have heard the "you're pulling someone to you" theory, and maybe there's something to it, but in my opinion there are questions raised by this interpretation. For instance, why in the kata did the creators not create a specific grabbing motion? It seems to me they would have, not only to program muscle memory but also just to be clear...
Kata are essentially a syllabus for what should be studied. Just like a class syllabus tells you what you will be covering in the course but to learn the course, you still have to read the chapters in the textbook. Remember that true karate, the way it was originally taught before it was "sportified" to be acceptable to the Japanese authorities (for public schools, etc.) at the beginning of the 1900's was all about fighting. So there are no "guards", no guarding hands, in karate (just as you don't have those in a real fight once the clash has begun). In other words, there are no hands that are just sitting around doing nothing--just waiting. Both hands are in the fight. One might be striking while the other is clearing obstructions (moving the other guys hands out of the way, making and opening, trapping, and..yes...maybe pulling).
Some kata are intentionally NOT clear because the students who created them did not want potential enemies to learn what techniques they were learning. Kata contains many grabs, throws, strangles, joint locks, as well as strikes. Bunkai is the study of kata to discover the techniques within.
Here's one exercise: take a kata (like naihanchi, etc.) and lie on your back on the floor and do the kata and see how many grappling moves you can recognize.
Here's an example in another thread:That last part about katas, hidden techniques and the grappling example you gave were pretty deep. Even though I don't exactly know what you're talking about since I don't train Karate, it makes sense (if what you're saying is really true).
There's been a lot of Kenpo talk lately, with the thread on why Kenpo is called Kenpo Karate and Stephen Thompson's Kenpo roots.
Personally, I find Kenpo to be pretty fascinating. Not only is there a rich and interesting history, but the system itself is, in my opinion, unique in the martial arts world in the way it's constructed and executed.
But is it really any good? All the drills I've ever seen demand the question, "Could this be used against a non-compliant assailant?" Personally, I have my doubts, but I really have no experience with the system.
So does anyone have any thoughts on this?