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ALIEN: COVENANT Thread v.2 (Dragonlord's Review, post #1)
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not in alien
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I don't get why after being away from the franchise for 30+ years he gets to come back and take it over, Lucas style.
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I saw the movie last night. It was an entertaining way to pass a couple of hours, but it’s nothing memorable at all.
Like most I was disappointed by what they did with the Engineer plot. It seems they took the complaints about Prometheus a bit too much to heart and course corrected the fuck out of this one. Too much in my opinion.
As for how this movie links up with the original Alien, I can think of two options
This one was more Alien than Aliens, in my opinion.
It would've made a lot more sense for...
Like most I was disappointed by what they did with the Engineer plot. It seems they took the complaints about Prometheus a bit too much to heart and course corrected the fuck out of this one. Too much in my opinion.
As for how this movie links up with the original Alien, I can think of two options
The world David devastated wasn’t the Engineer’s homeworld, but merely a colony. The fact that there seemed to be only a single not very large city on the planet may support this.
David will continue his experiments using the fresh 2,000 Guinea pigs he acquired in this movie, either on route or once they reach Origae-6. Once he has decided that his masterpiece is complete, he will take the Covenant to the Engineer’s true homeworld to try to wipe them out. Things don’t go according to plan and he makes a run for it in a damaged Engineer ship towards LV-223 hoping to load up more bioweapons but the ship crashes in LV-426, where the Nostromo finds it.
David will continue his experiments using the fresh 2,000 Guinea pigs he acquired in this movie, either on route or once they reach Origae-6. Once he has decided that his masterpiece is complete, he will take the Covenant to the Engineer’s true homeworld to try to wipe them out. Things don’t go according to plan and he makes a run for it in a damaged Engineer ship towards LV-223 hoping to load up more bioweapons but the ship crashes in LV-426, where the Nostromo finds it.
David will continue his experiments using the fresh 2,000 Guinea pigs he acquired in this movie, either on route or once they reach Origae-6. Some new group of humans will run into him and foil his plans.
David heads to LV-223 to get a new bomber ship and more of the black goo to combine with his new creations but the new heroes manage to cause his ship to crash in LV-426
David heads to LV-223 to get a new bomber ship and more of the black goo to combine with his new creations but the new heroes manage to cause his ship to crash in LV-426
This one was more Alien than Aliens, in my opinion.
It would've made a lot more sense for...
David to experiment on her than on Shaw.
I really enjoyed it. Far surpasses prometheus but obviously not on level with alien. I've already rambled on in other forums, but I'll summarise. Would like to see it again to be honest
Pros
*david/walter/fassbender. Everyone whining about no good characters in the last two films, sure the majority are there to die but David is the main character here like Ripley was in her trilogy. All crew expendable.
*the sheer aggression and violence these neo/xenos showed. It was great to see aliens just rush you not giving a fuck, I'm sure with a few more experiments David will somehow make them more stealthy like we all know and love
*liked seeing the alien standing tall and walking, ironically seeing it in this posture was very unnatural and unnerving
Cons
*cgi aliens. Not a single practical alien. Some of them looked terrible. When the xenomorph climbed down the ladder....wow terrible
*flutes. "Let me do the fingering" worst scene in history
*flutes to make a new born alien xeno dance...really?
*middle third of the film was a bit wishy washy
But I enjoyed it
7.5 out of 10
Pros
*david/walter/fassbender. Everyone whining about no good characters in the last two films, sure the majority are there to die but David is the main character here like Ripley was in her trilogy. All crew expendable.
*the sheer aggression and violence these neo/xenos showed. It was great to see aliens just rush you not giving a fuck, I'm sure with a few more experiments David will somehow make them more stealthy like we all know and love
*liked seeing the alien standing tall and walking, ironically seeing it in this posture was very unnatural and unnerving
Cons
*cgi aliens. Not a single practical alien. Some of them looked terrible. When the xenomorph climbed down the ladder....wow terrible
*flutes. "Let me do the fingering" worst scene in history
*flutes to make a new born alien xeno dance...really?
*middle third of the film was a bit wishy washy
But I enjoyed it
7.5 out of 10
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Update: May 12, 2017
Experience a Neomorph Birth in ALIEN: COVENANT In Utero 360 Virtual Reality
In Utero is a 360-degree virtual reality journey into a living nightmare and offers a terrifyingly close and personal encounter as an alien neomorph at the time of its birth. Fans will be able to experience the world around them, reliving the very first memories of the neomorph in an immersive environment.
Experience a Neomorph Birth in ALIEN: COVENANT In Utero 360 Virtual Reality
In Utero is a 360-degree virtual reality journey into a living nightmare and offers a terrifyingly close and personal encounter as an alien neomorph at the time of its birth. Fans will be able to experience the world around them, reliving the very first memories of the neomorph in an immersive environment.
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Alien purist fans ruined the franchise. They need to leave that Sigourney Weaver Sci-Fi Horror trope elements in the rear view mirror. It's boring. Stale. Overdone. And Weaver is old as shit. We don't need an Alien 5.
Once again, the best parts about the movie were the original slim elements rolled over from Prometheus.
Trailers + prologues showed way too much. Less is more in the trailer department.
Fassbender stole the show... Again.
I don't like that they killed off Shaw. But I won't deny that how they did it, was well done.
Everyone else was pretty much forgettable. Kenny Powers and Redhead gender fluid heroine lite were decent. Rest = Generic fodder.
The visuals were stunning. This is not surprising. Some of the action scenes could have used a bit less CGI and a bit more organic horror elements (Eg - Shadows, suspense, lighting, sound)
Sound was outstanding. I'm glad they kept the Life track from Prometheus. David playing it on the flute was emotional.
The story was inconsistent. The first half was boring and predictable. You expect me to have an emotional connection to this complete new cast? Before I even know anything about them, no less?
The disappointment continued up until when David showed up like a boss. Everything from then onward was better.
But it also showed how much of an opportunity they missed.
An ancient alien city in rubble? They could have skipped 90% of the first half of the film and just found the ruins of the city initially. Imagine the exploration. Hell, imagine if they could have left at least one engineer alive. So much to do there, and they wasted half the film on a plot progression we all knew where it was going...
Arrive on mysterious desolate, yet habitable planet. Explore, step on poisonous spores, find ship, infected, alien, people die. The only interesting part about that is what happened in regards to the ship. What happened to Shaw and David.
For those who haven't seen it, Dragonlord is definitely over-exaggerating certain aspects. Feels like an attempt to perceive more character choices as "dumb" just because Prometheus did too. The actions are completely explained by the context and are no more ridiculous than choices made in pretty much every horror movie ever made.
No different than what pretty much every crew member did in the original alien. Instead of trying to crawl in a space- confined air vent with a flamethrower, looking for an alien that is absolutely lethal, the logical choice is clearly to get a bunch of weapons, find a room with only one entrance, and wait for it to come.
How about splitting up in 2's? Dumbest shit ever, yet happens in every goddamn thriller/horror flick. Everyone knows if they just stuck together as a big group they'd be fine....
"We're trying to kill an absolutely viscous alien, but Oh there's a cat! Why don't you go off, isolate yourself from the group and get that cat, because he's so important you know?"
The one with the girl having a shower isn't even bad because she was told to "not go too far", which establishes some context that Ridley Scott understands "dumb shit criticism". We can only assume she's not too far, given we have no geographical location as far as where she was. Knowing she's a rational human being we can assume she didn't go far. She's under the pretense that this area is safe because of David.
The Billy lean over the egg-Facehugger is an Alien cliche, and probably the more "ridiculous" of the two incidents. Still, we have to understand he has no understanding of pretty much anything. He doesn't know how his crew got infected in the first place. He sees David acting comfortable. He is slow and hesitant. He has a rifle. He feels a sense of confidence wielding it. He feels in control. It's a old and tired cliche, but we have been given enough context to understand the situation at hand.
I digress.
All the best scenes were with David. Ironically the most emotionally resonating characters are both robots. Think about that. The David-Walter brother angle was more moving than any of the human crew members.
They didn't need to kiss. Bit weird. A pulling in of the heads like this would have been much better.
The big "SNAP" that the film was building up to was David's darkness revealed, particularly that he killed Elizabeth. It was awesome, but the problem was it took them more than half the film to even start building that momentum. By the time the punchline of the arc arrived, it barely had enough momentum behind it to hit hard. It still did, but no thanks to the shotty plot and pacing.
The action-packed final arc of the film didn't hit hard enough because of that inconsistency in the first 3 quarters. I can't critique the generic death, destruction and escape ending in isolation so much as how it rhythms and flows in continuity with what came before it.
David's fight with Walter and devious trickery was once again, the best part of the resolution/last quarter of the film.
He's the only reason why this film passes, and that it's future installment prospects are still alive... If only slightly.
I give Alien: Covenant a 7/10. It has all the elements and aspects of a solid film in the franchise. However, it does little to inspire and innovate.
It's time for the franchise to evolve. Alien is everything that's wrong. Strip it away and you get Covenant. A continuation of David, Elizabeth, the Engineers, and the existential search of life.
Trailers + prologues showed way too much. Less is more in the trailer department.
Fassbender stole the show... Again.
I don't like that they killed off Shaw. But I won't deny that how they did it, was well done.
Everyone else was pretty much forgettable. Kenny Powers and Redhead gender fluid heroine lite were decent. Rest = Generic fodder.
The visuals were stunning. This is not surprising. Some of the action scenes could have used a bit less CGI and a bit more organic horror elements (Eg - Shadows, suspense, lighting, sound)
Sound was outstanding. I'm glad they kept the Life track from Prometheus. David playing it on the flute was emotional.
The story was inconsistent. The first half was boring and predictable. You expect me to have an emotional connection to this complete new cast? Before I even know anything about them, no less?
The disappointment continued up until when David showed up like a boss. Everything from then onward was better.
But it also showed how much of an opportunity they missed.
An ancient alien city in rubble? They could have skipped 90% of the first half of the film and just found the ruins of the city initially. Imagine the exploration. Hell, imagine if they could have left at least one engineer alive. So much to do there, and they wasted half the film on a plot progression we all knew where it was going...
Arrive on mysterious desolate, yet habitable planet. Explore, step on poisonous spores, find ship, infected, alien, people die. The only interesting part about that is what happened in regards to the ship. What happened to Shaw and David.
For those who haven't seen it, Dragonlord is definitely over-exaggerating certain aspects. Feels like an attempt to perceive more character choices as "dumb" just because Prometheus did too. The actions are completely explained by the context and are no more ridiculous than choices made in pretty much every horror movie ever made.
No different than what pretty much every crew member did in the original alien. Instead of trying to crawl in a space- confined air vent with a flamethrower, looking for an alien that is absolutely lethal, the logical choice is clearly to get a bunch of weapons, find a room with only one entrance, and wait for it to come.
How about splitting up in 2's? Dumbest shit ever, yet happens in every goddamn thriller/horror flick. Everyone knows if they just stuck together as a big group they'd be fine....
"We're trying to kill an absolutely viscous alien, but Oh there's a cat! Why don't you go off, isolate yourself from the group and get that cat, because he's so important you know?"
The one with the girl having a shower isn't even bad because she was told to "not go too far", which establishes some context that Ridley Scott understands "dumb shit criticism". We can only assume she's not too far, given we have no geographical location as far as where she was. Knowing she's a rational human being we can assume she didn't go far. She's under the pretense that this area is safe because of David.
The Billy lean over the egg-Facehugger is an Alien cliche, and probably the more "ridiculous" of the two incidents. Still, we have to understand he has no understanding of pretty much anything. He doesn't know how his crew got infected in the first place. He sees David acting comfortable. He is slow and hesitant. He has a rifle. He feels a sense of confidence wielding it. He feels in control. It's a old and tired cliche, but we have been given enough context to understand the situation at hand.
I digress.
All the best scenes were with David. Ironically the most emotionally resonating characters are both robots. Think about that. The David-Walter brother angle was more moving than any of the human crew members.
They didn't need to kiss. Bit weird. A pulling in of the heads like this would have been much better.
The big "SNAP" that the film was building up to was David's darkness revealed, particularly that he killed Elizabeth. It was awesome, but the problem was it took them more than half the film to even start building that momentum. By the time the punchline of the arc arrived, it barely had enough momentum behind it to hit hard. It still did, but no thanks to the shotty plot and pacing.
The action-packed final arc of the film didn't hit hard enough because of that inconsistency in the first 3 quarters. I can't critique the generic death, destruction and escape ending in isolation so much as how it rhythms and flows in continuity with what came before it.
David's fight with Walter and devious trickery was once again, the best part of the resolution/last quarter of the film.
He's the only reason why this film passes, and that it's future installment prospects are still alive... If only slightly.
I give Alien: Covenant a 7/10. It has all the elements and aspects of a solid film in the franchise. However, it does little to inspire and innovate.
It's time for the franchise to evolve. Alien is everything that's wrong. Strip it away and you get Covenant. A continuation of David, Elizabeth, the Engineers, and the existential search of life.
P
Pugilistic
Guest
Another thought:
It doesn't make sense that every creature is supposedly dead but plant life is thriving on the planet. That would fuck up the ecosystem so bad. I would imagine a lot of plants on earth would go extinct if everything including bugs were dead.
It doesn't make sense that every creature is supposedly dead but plant life is thriving on the planet. That would fuck up the ecosystem so bad. I would imagine a lot of plants on earth would go extinct if everything including bugs were dead.
When they showed the 2000 colonists in cryosleep, I thought they were going have them infected/impregnated or in danger of being so, and at the end Daniels would have to grapple with the dilemma of killing them all or risk spreading the aliens. I think that would've been a better ending than what we got.
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I also thought of the same thing that the 2,000 colonists would somehow factor into the story.
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I can understand why they decided to check out the new planet.
Most of the crew were wary of going back to cryosleep after what happened to James Franco. There was also a good possibility that another neutrino blast could hit the ship any time. Their destination was still years away (nine?). This new uncharted planet looks to habitable and is just a weeks trip. They check it out and if it's safe and habitable, they colonize it. If it doesn't pan out, all they wasted was a few weeks.
Yeah the sail scene was good.
Of course, very true. I had forgotten about the spoiler you mentioned. Honestly as my favourite film franchise I need to see this again as there is a lot to take in.
Question time those that have seen the film.
How busy was the viewing at your cinema? I went on opening night and the screening was only half full. But, like prometheus, it was a fantastic mixture of ages. Many old time fans, although far fewer compared to prometheus (guess some lost hope after prometheus) and many younger kids.
Another thing with AC is that it has really made prometheus shine in my eyes. It expanded the alien world and means the universe could go in any direction. I'm one of the few who actually enjoyed there weren't xenos in prometheus, however very happy to see them in covenant. Has there been anything mentioned on the follow up, from memory people already knew the next film would be called paradise and would focus on engineers home world within a few days of prometheus being released.
Right so reading speculation that the next film is called Awakenings and is a sequel to prometheus and a prequel to covenant.
Which I guess makes sense. Prometheus upset a lot of people as they heard ridley scott was returning to the alien franchise, so expected another alien monster. What they got was a far bigger vision that far surpassed a simple idea of a killing machine and was actually on biblical level of man wanting to meet its God.
So to continue support of the studios and the paying audience he probably thought fuck it, they can have their aliens and then I'll return to telling my intended story. So I'm not to bent out of shape on that, if that is true. But that then means covenant is left open and David is flying around with free reign to create whatever he wants and go wherever he wants and that we will probably never see.
Which I guess makes sense. Prometheus upset a lot of people as they heard ridley scott was returning to the alien franchise, so expected another alien monster. What they got was a far bigger vision that far surpassed a simple idea of a killing machine and was actually on biblical level of man wanting to meet its God.
So to continue support of the studios and the paying audience he probably thought fuck it, they can have their aliens and then I'll return to telling my intended story. So I'm not to bent out of shape on that, if that is true. But that then means covenant is left open and David is flying around with free reign to create whatever he wants and go wherever he wants and that we will probably never see.
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I give it a 7.5
David was by far the most interesting part of the movie. I found him scary, creepy and more intriguing than the aliens. Walter is a close second as interesting characters go.
Honestly, I just wish they dropped most of the aliens plot and focus on the Prometheus/engineer story. I can only think that all of the dumb bitching about Prometheus is what forced Ridley to include so much alien crap, which he is obviously not as excited as the panspermia angle.
Prometheus was a better movie. It was more mysterious to me. I hope, really hope that Ridley gets to tell his engineer story and we can lose the aliens (been there done that) side of the story.
David was by far the most interesting part of the movie. I found him scary, creepy and more intriguing than the aliens. Walter is a close second as interesting characters go.
Honestly, I just wish they dropped most of the aliens plot and focus on the Prometheus/engineer story. I can only think that all of the dumb bitching about Prometheus is what forced Ridley to include so much alien crap, which he is obviously not as excited as the panspermia angle.
Prometheus was a better movie. It was more mysterious to me. I hope, really hope that Ridley gets to tell his engineer story and we can lose the aliens (been there done that) side of the story.
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I didn't think Prometheus was great, very mediocre, I gave it like a 6, maybe 7 tops.
This is going to sound like sacrilege to some people, but I think the Alien franchise as a whole is highly overrated.
Robocop for example, is a far better movie than Alien or Aliens, but it gets written off by some people as cheesy, whereas the Alien movies are supposed to be some kind of high art or something. I think it's bullshit.
Tony Scott > Ridley Scott imo. Fuck y'all
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I honestly feel they need to transcend the shackles of the hack and slash generic framework the franchise has been restricted by.
Why can't the franchise evolve into much more? Prometheus opened up a whole new realm of possibilities for the franchise. It was a flawed movie, but it absolutely reignited a universe on life support. The Engineers offered the series a chance to dip into different elements of the Sci-Fi genre. Ones that it barely has before...
How cool would it have been if we had Shaw and David caught in the middle of an Engineer civil war? The possibilities...
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There is truth to your Alien/Aliens criticisms. I have thought long about this. It really comes down to this...
They are celebrated as a product of their times... As all movies should be.
They were originators in the genre. First of their kind. They simply aren't held up to the same standards that films... Sci-Fi ones particularly are today.
Alien takes 3/4 of the film to get anywhere. The characters do as many stupid things as in Prometheus ("Go isolate yourself from the group and find that cat, don't worry about the lethal alien we're hunting bro!")... Hell you couldn't tell Ripley was the main character until halfway in.
Both films really didn't have much depth in my opinion. Great atmosphere, but outside of the FEAR factor... Not much emotional resonance.
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I find that all to be an excuse, because other movies like The Thing or the aforementioned Robocop, hold up beautifully today. They don't need to be judged in the context of their time, they are simply great. I showed 12 Angry Men to someone who had never seen it last year, and they loved it better than most courtroom dramas today, and it was made 60 years ago. True quality lasts, while hype needs excuses.
