Your top 5 all time greatest Welters.

rorschach51 said:
That's fair, I just don't see him in a top 5 position.
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Based on his WW record alone I dont see it neither.
If we consider the legit 185lbers he beat I cant think of many WWs with better record than him
 
krelianx said:
Well, they could have went their way, but they didn't. They were close fights, and Shields won, all of them. And the fact Hendo is beatable doesn't mean that is not a spectacular win, considering Henderson at the time was in excellent shape and one of the top MWs in the world.

Beating Lawler, Okami, Daley, Condit, Pyle, Thompson, and Sexy is a lot.

http://www.mmadecisions.com/decision/4563/Jake-Shields-vs-Demian-Maia
http://www.mmadecisions.com/decision/4290/fight
http://mmadecisions.com/decision/1981/Jake-Shields-vs-Martin-Kampmann
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I don't care, the rest of you can think he's top 5 all you want no one's stopping you, to me he was never impressive got a gift or 2 in those names, and was completely forgettable in the UFC. And Kampmann should have won.
 
pankrat said:
Based on his WW record alone I dont see it neither.
If we consider the legit 185lbers he beat I cant think of many WWs with better record than him
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That's fine, but when I think of Top 5 all time, I think of domination GSP, Hughes, Woodley, Askren, Lawler dominated at their peaks, Shields eeked by in the UFC. Askren might only have 1 fight in the UFC but it was a 1st round stoppage against another top 5 all time great at the weight. Is undefeated, and held 2 different major org WW title defending both. That's impressive to me, Shield's never impressed me and at least to of the names everybody keeps mentioning as his wins I thought he lost.
 
rorschach51 said:
That's fine, but when I think of Top 5 all time, I think of domination GSP, Hughes, Woodley, Askren, Lawler dominated at their peaks, Shields eeked by in the UFC. Askren might only have 1 fight in the UFC but it was a 1st round stoppage against another top 5 all time great at the weight. Is undefeated, and held 2 different major org WW title defending both. That's impressive to me, Shield's never impressed me and at least to of the names everybody keeps mentioning as his wins I thought he lost.
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You think Woodley dominated Wonderboy either fight? The first was a draw. The second was as close as they come. And although Woodley neutralized Maia, to call that an impressive performance or domination would be, well, pretty silly.

http://www.mmadecisions.com/decision/7832/Tyron-Woodley-vs-Stephen-Thompson

You are biased to the point of incoherence.
 
rorschach51 said:
That's fine, but when I think of Top 5 all time, I think of domination GSP, Hughes, Woodley, Askren, Lawler dominated at their peaks, Shields eeked by in the UFC. Askren might only have 1 fight in the UFC but it was a 1st round stoppage against another top 5 all time great at the weight. Is undefeated, and held 2 different major org WW title defending both. That's impressive to me, Shield's never impressed me and at least to of the names everybody keeps mentioning as his wins I thought he lost.
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I respect your opinion but reading you I honestly dont think you were watching until few years ago.
Otherwise if Askren's run is imppresive to you, you would remember Shields preUFC run as superimpressive
 
pankrat said:
I respect your opinion but reading you I honestly dont think you were watching until few years ago.
Otherwise if Askren's run is imppresive to you, you would remember Shields preUFC run as superimpressive
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As a teen I really liked Mark Kerr, but I didn't really start to become a fan of MMA until 2001 Zuffa takeover and Matt Hughes. So I've been loyally watching since 2001. Jake Shields just doesn't do it for me, I don't see greatness there, I'm sorry this bothers so many but it's just the way it is.
 
No love for Hayato Sakurai here?

Dude was a freaking beast, before his accident...and even after that put beatings on guys...
 
GSP
Hughes
Woodley
Lawler
Shields

Lawler and Shields are pretty much interchangable IMO at 4 and 5.
 
rorschach51 said:
And lost to both Ellenberger quick and fucking Lombard. Plus his win by Split Decision over Woodley was 6 years ago, I think it's safe to say WW Champ Woodley was a different fighter then the one Shields barely got a decision over.
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Why do you say fucking Lombard like he sucked? He was a beast at the time. The Ellenberger fight was also right after Shields' dad died.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
Why do you say fucking Lombard like he sucked? He was a beast at the time. The Ellenberger fight was also right after Shields' dad died.
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He wasn't really, he was 2-2 in the UFC at the time and he just came down to WW the fight before & beat a shot Marquardt.
 
rorschach51 said:
He wasn't really, he was 2-2 in the UFC at the time and he just came down to WW the fight before & beat a shot Marquardt.
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Numbers mean nothing without naming who he fought and Marquardt was 2 fights removed from being the Strikeforce WW champion and KOing Woodley.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
Numbers mean nothing without naming who he fought and Marquardt was 2 fights removed from being the Strikeforce WW champion and KOing Woodley.
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And Nate was KO'd then & the fight before, and only won 3 of his last 9 fights from that point. Lombard lost to Boetsch, & Okami, he beat Paul Harris & Nate. Not great.
 
GSP
Matt Hughes
Shields
Askren
Lawler
 
rorschach51 said:
And Nate was KO'd then & the fight before, and only won 3 of his last 9 fights from that point. Lombard lost to Boetsch, & Okami, he beat Paul Harris & Nate. Not great.
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He nearly beat both Boestch and Okami though and they were in their primes and Lombard had a injured rib going into the Boestch fight but didn't want to pull out. Lombard was getting old but still really good, there's a reason Woodley avoided fighting him.
 
rorschach51 said:
And Nate was KO'd then & the fight before, and only won 3 of his last 9 fights from that point. Lombard lost to Boetsch, & Okami, he beat Paul Harris & Nate. Not great.
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Its not like there were many WWs who would move up and beat prime 185lbers Tim Boetsch and Yushin Okami, especially the latter, or even do better than Lombard did.
He dispatched Toquinho and Marquardt as nothing and dominated Shields even easier than GSP.
Regardless of numbers, if you actually watched that roided freak Lombard by that time you should know he was certainly a beast and a legit threat for any WW
 
1. GSP
2. Hughes
3. Woodley
4. Lawler
5. Rory?
 
GiSP said:
As far as the UFC goes Askren can’t be that high yet. Anybody that’s even won an interim is higher, imo.

And Lawler would be higher than Woodley for me.
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WHY would Lawler be higher than Woodley? Woodley has more title defenses, a better record, AND he won the head to head matchup. Whatever your criteria is, it's terrible. My guess is you're down in your feels and can't look at fighters objectively.
 
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