You can’t just build a fighter

[Koro_11]

It’s obviously a combination of nature and nurture (or lack of nurture to some degree)

Now you can take a guy that wasn’t born with it, and train him well in martial arts, and get his strength and conditioning up there to the point where he can overcome many guys who were born with it and had a tough upbringing.

BUT you take that guy who was born with it and experienced some hardships, and you train him even half as hard and I would put my money on him over the pampered guy who is better trained.

Just remembering Sage Northcutt, dude was so jacked and explosive at 18 it was scary when you consider the potential. He had everything going for him, youth, speed, strength, agility, and all the benefits of modern training and nutrition at an early age.

Funny enough it was probably all that good parenting and ideal conditions that made it impossible for him to reach that top level and develop a certain killer mindset.

If you think about it every true elite fighter is either from the favelas, or some rough place in Russia or Eastern Europe, or Africa, or a descendant of slaves in America… hell even GSP was a garbage man who was bullied as a kid.

Sage just had it too good, to really be that good imo.

Now I’m not saying go beat your kids or be a bad parent, but all these helicopter parents who wanna make their kid a superstar by raising him in ideal conditions are probably on the right path if they want him to be a great tennis player or track n field athlete.

But when it comes to combat sports that formula just doesn’t work in my opinion. That said if you’re a good parent you probably don’t want your kid to cage fight for a living anyway unless it’s really his calling.

Anyways, nothing groundbreaking here I’m sure most will agree. My question is can anyone think of a great fighter whose ability was built solely in the gym and with good nutrition, etc…

I can’t.

 

[Shaddows]

BJ Penn...
Vitor Belfort
Maia

Weren't they rich kids before they joined the sport?

 

[Koro_11]

BJ Penn
Vítor
Maia

No, dude was rich but as a kid he was getting into street fights in Hawaii all the time.

Vítor was kinda born with it but he’s also a bit of a glass cannon and something was always missing mentally.

Maia was a great jj practitioner but I would not consider him a great fighter.

 

[Shaddows]

No, dude was rich but as a kid he was getting into street fights in Hawaii all the time.

hehe I was thinking about it after I put his name down...
Actually, IMHO he helps your theory... that was he was known for not training hard enough, even during his peak.

he had balls and skills, and absolutely loved a challenge... but that's different than fighting for a "plate of food"

 

[chinarice]

GSP.

 

[PicoPulse]

Saying anything like that about Sage is just incorrect
Dude is a real fighter period

I will not entertain any other opinion

 

[Koro_11]

GSP.

Was picked on as a kid, used to work as a garbage man.

 

[Koro_11]

Saying anything like that about Sage is just incorrect
Dude is a real fighter period

I will not entertain any other opinion

No doubt that he’s a real fighter, I’m just pointing out what separates him from being a good fighter and a great fighter.

 

[chinarice]

Was picked on as a kid, used to work as a garbage man.

So? That sounds like literally a typical child's life...

Every kid experiences hardships, bud. Even rich, privileged kids.

 

[loisestrad]

Isn't it kinda obvious? Most people actually don't wanna fight if they don't have to. I know I would rather play tennis or golf than getting punched in the head.

 

[chinarice]

Stephen Thompson is another. Do we have some other goalpost criteria for him as well?

Let me guess, he worked somewhere as a teenager so that too makes him not count... lol

 

[Macsworth]

Some people are born to be fighters.

 

[PicoPulse]

No doubt that he’s a real fighter, I’m just pointing out what separates him from being a good fighter and a great fighter.

I feel like hes a bad pick hes 11-3 overall
6-2 in the UFC let go on a 3 win streak and got KOd by a guy in a bigger weight class in ONE

 

[SalvadorAllende]

BJ Penn...
Vitor Belfort
Maia

Weren't they rich kids before they joined the sport?

BJ is not the sanest person in the world. He might have been rich but his life was definitely not perfect.

Now Maia.. didn't knew he came from money but the dude is legit the nicest guy in the sport.

 

[Shaddows]

I feel like hes a bad pick hes 11-3 overall
6-2 in the UFC let go on a 3 win streak and got KOd by a guy in a bigger weight class in ONE

isn't ONE te promotion who does nto allow weight cuts?
So he was not fighting on a bigger weight class, but in his true WC... (though I agree with you that his career was not bad as the OP makes it to be)...
though I guess his point is that the hopes (from the promotion) was that he would become a champion, which clearly did not happen.

 

[Shaddows]

BJ is not the sanest person in the world. He might have been rich but his life was definitely not perfect.

Now Maia.. didn't knew he came from money but the dude is legit the nicest guy in the sport.

If I am not mistaken, he was middle class in Brazil (Sao Paulo).
And he grew in the BJJ community, winning everything... not a bad childhood...

 

[PicoPulse]

isn't ONE te promotion who does nto allow weight cuts?
So he was not fighting on a bigger weight class, but in his true WC... (though I agree with you that his career was not bad as the OP makes it to be)...
though I guess his point is that the hopes (from the promotion) was that he would become a champion, which clearly did not happen.

You can cut weight it just has to be within their stipulations X fighter cant weigh this then cut to that
Cosmos was clearly a class above Sage and Sage was going to move down to fight Aoki his next fight but Covid problems stopped it

Edit: He actually was going to drop to 155 from 185 two classes

 

[Fioretti]

Instinct is what you really can't teach or build. Some people have this natural instinct that translates very well to fighting, others just flat out don't. Sure, fighters without the natural aspect can build their instincts and skills over time, but there's a significant difference between the two in my opinion.

 

[SalvadorAllende]

Saying anything like that about Sage is just incorrect
Dude is a real fighter period

I will not entertain any other opinion

Hasn't he basically retired at like 22?

Damn.. just looked him on wikipedia and dude is married to an actress.

 

[andrejxvii]

It’s obviously a combination of nature and nurture (or lack of nurture to some degree)

Now you can take a guy that wasn’t born with it, and train him well in martial arts, and get his strength and conditioning up there to the point where he can overcome many guys who were born with it and had a tough upbringing.

BUT you take that guy who was born with it and experienced some hardships, and you train him even half as hard and I would put my money on him over the pampered guy who is better trained.

Just remembering Sage Northcutt, dude was so jacked and explosive at 18 it was scary when you consider the potential. He had everything going for him, youth, speed, strength, agility, and all the benefits of modern training and nutrition at an early age.

Funny enough it was probably all that good parenting and ideal conditions that made it impossible for him to reach that top level and develop a certain killer mindset.

If you think about it every true elite fighter is either from the favelas, or some rough place in Russia or Eastern Europe, or Africa, or a descendant of slaves in America… hell even GSP was a garbage man who was bullied as a kid.

Sage just had it too good, to really be that good imo.

Now I’m not saying go beat your kids or be a bad parent, but all these helicopter parents who wanna make their kid a superstar by raising him in ideal conditions are probably on the right path if they want him to be a great tennis player or track n field athlete.

But when it comes to combat sports that formula just doesn’t work in my opinion. That said if you’re a good parent you probably don’t want your kid to cage fight for a living anyway unless it’s really his calling.

Anyways, nothing groundbreaking here I’m sure most will agree. My question is can anyone think of a great fighter whose ability was built solely in the gym and with good nutrition, etc…

I can’t.

GSP had a roof over his head, both parents present and meals in his belly. He was just fine as a child. Most kids get bullied at some point in their life.
He only worked as a garbage man to pay for his education. He didn't have a bad childhood at all. I have friends that do manual labor jobs to pay their uni/college tuition too.

Jon Jones wasn't struggling as a kid either.
Chael Sonnen was pretty well off as a child too, and he's one of the toughest fighters in the history of the sport. The 5 dudes still laying in the hallways of the Four Seasons hotel can attest to that.

Not saying I completely disagree, but it isn't a hundred percent factual.