Yemen's Capital Falls To Shiite Militants, President Is Captured

[__Big_D__]

Shouldn't Saudi Arabia be doing way more to fight these extremists... Wouldn't their money be better spent fighting than building a wall?

 

[Kalmah]

Yemeni Government Collapses as President and Prime Minister Resign

 

[Zankou]

Yemeni Government Collapses as President and Prime Minister Resign

Looks like the Saudis have already decide to throw down on Al Qaeda's side.

"Saudi Arabia, which has recoiled at what it sees as the Houthis’ strong ties to Shiite Iran, has begun sending aid to the tribes in Marib, according to diplomats, raising fears that the province will become a focal point for an escalating proxy war."

South Islamic State, coming up soon.

 

[SpidermanISGOAT]

Nonsense, what you are seeing is a power shift from the US being insanely 1000% rabidly anti-Shiite to being only about 70-80% anti-Shiite. You also see the US being much less supportive of Israel. Witness the recent fracture in the US government over Iran, with Obama (rightly) being far less critical of Iran and far less supportive of Israel than the GOP, which foams at the mouth with Iranian hatred and to-the-end-of-time Israeli support.

So the US has finally shown some balls to stand up against the foreign policy demands of Israel and Saudi Arabia. Why did we grow those balls? Three primary reasons. One, the rise of fracking allows us to give the finger to the Gulf Arabs, and makes their cooperation on oil production far less significant (OPEC can't do shit to halt global production now). Two, the explosive spread of Sunni extremism and Islamism has given the lie to the idea that countries like Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Pakistan are the 'good Muslim nations' who can be relied upon as allies, and whose governments can successfully manage their extremist factions. Three, Israel has been acting increasingly out-of-line, and has finally managed to piss the US off.

Factions in the US government, exemplified by McCain, are still pushing the old 'support Sunni militants against the Shiiites till you die' party line, but those factions look increasingly insane and foolish. The more dominant faction now is 'they are all fanatics, none should be supported, and there's no real resolution besides walling them off, which fracking fortunately allows us to do.'

Id agree with this.

But he does seem to make a point. If the U.S. really wanted Assad gone wouldn't' they have done it?

The support would of been there for it.

 

[Kantian_relativist]

Looks like the Saudis have already decide to throw down on Al Qaeda's side.

"Saudi Arabia, which has recoiled at what it sees as the Houthis

 

[Gervinho]

The Saudis are caught in an ideological trap of their own making. If they fight seriously against the jihadi extremists, then they will essentially confirm their status as enemy of Sunni extremism. So, out of fear of militant Sunni extremism, they have relied on proxxies to do their combat, standard Middle Eastern style, particularly the US. But proxxy combat is generally shit unless you are just looking to create more chaos in a region -- if you are genuinely looking to solve regional problems, proxxy combat usually only multiplies them (like terrorism, another weapon that is good for fomenting chaos but terrible for imposing order).

The Saudis are so wealthy and corrupt that they can't possibly stomach the sort of nasty, sustained, Chechnya style intervention that would be required to impose order on Yemen. And the US won't do it for them.

I don't see any solution, I'm just glad the Shiites appear to be coming out on top here, since Al Qaeda in Yemen is possibly the worst of all Al Qaeda branches.

This is true, but Saudi doesnt have to go in there nor do they really need the US to do the job. Saudi can make this a Shie vs Sunni war and help jihadist go in there and do their dirty job. Sure when they wipe the Shiats out it will be like an ISIS state. But as long as they dont bother Saudi I doubt they care

 

[Kantian_relativist]

I think it's nuts to assume Salafi jihadists wouldn't come for mecca and medina. Al-qaeda stated their desire to take over SA and so has ISIS. ISIS is clearly the bigger threat at the moment, and Al-Aqaeda is an uneasy ally in Yemen.

 

[Zankou]

This is true, but Saudi doesnt have to go in there nor do they really need the US to do the job. Saudi can make this a Shie vs Sunni war and help jihadist go in there and do their dirty job. Sure when they wipe the Shiats out it will be like an ISIS state. But as long as they dont bother Saudi I doubt they care

That's exactly what the Saudis will likely try, and are trying as we speak, but the proxy strategy has proven disastrous over the long term. The Saudis are under ever-increasing militant threat, and they are now bordered to the North and South by complete nutjob fanatics. It might be time for them to reconsider the strategy of pumping the entire region full of well-armed Sunni fanatics, since it's pretty clearly made the entire region far more dangerous for the Saudis -- all that has happened is that radical Sunni militants and militant Shiite groups have risen to power across the entire region. They all hate the House of Saud, whose friends have systematically disappeared and lost all power.

Saudis keep assuming that if you support Sunni jihadis enough across the region, they will roll back Shiite power, but the exact opposite has kept happening over and over again. At some point you've got to ask whether the strategy is not only *evil* but also *a complete failure*. If it was evil but also effective, then you'd have a better argument for keeping at it.

 

[Gervinho]

That's exactly what the Saudis will likely try, and are trying as we speak, but the proxy strategy has proven disastrous over the long term. The Saudis are under ever-increasing militant threat, and they are now bordered to the North and South by complete nutjob fanatics. It might be time for them to reconsider the strategy of pumping the entire region full of well-armed Sunni fanatics, since it's pretty clearly made the entire region far more dangerous for the Saudis -- all that has happened is that radical Sunni militants and militant Shiite groups have risen to power across the entire region. They all hate the House of Saud, whose friends have systematically disappeared and lost all power.

Saudis keep assuming that if you support Sunni jihadis enough across the region, they will roll back Shiite power, but the exact opposite has kept happening over and over again. At some point you've got to ask whether the strategy is not only *evil* but also *a complete failure*. If it was evil but also effective, then you'd have a better argument for keeping at it.

Long term its stupid plan because these militants would love to slaughter the royal family and take over the holy islamic land eventually. There is alot of games being played. The Saudis are counting on America to step in eventually, because they know as much of a threat these extremists are to them. They are bigger threat to israel and no way would America or the west stand by and watch this threat grow. In the meantime if they can do the dirty work for the Saudis and weakened the Shiats its all good. One thing you have to give credit to the Saudis is they deal with threats within their border very serious and these extremists know if they fuck up in Saudi they are gone for good.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Nonsense, what you are seeing is a power shift from the US being insanely 1000% rabidly anti-Shiite to being only about 70-80% anti-Shiite. You also see the US being much less supportive of Israel. Witness the recent fracture in the US government over Iran, with Obama (rightly) being far less critical of Iran and far less supportive of Israel than the GOP, which foams at the mouth with Iranian hatred and to-the-end-of-time Israeli support.

So the US has finally shown some balls to stand up against the foreign policy demands of Israel and Saudi Arabia. Why did we grow those balls? Three primary reasons. One, the rise of fracking allows us to give the finger to the Gulf Arabs, and makes their cooperation on oil production far less significant (OPEC can't do shit to halt global production now). Two, the explosive spread of Sunni extremism and Islamism has given the lie to the idea that countries like Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Pakistan are the 'good Muslim nations' who can be relied upon as allies, and whose governments can successfully manage their extremist factions. Three, Israel has been acting increasingly out-of-line, and has finally managed to piss the US off.

Factions in the US government, exemplified by McCain, are still pushing the old 'support Sunni militants against the Shiiites till you die' party line, but those factions look increasingly insane and foolish. The more dominant faction now is 'they are all fanatics, none should be supported, and there's no real resolution besides walling them off, which fracking fortunately allows us to do.'

Do you think we've passed a sort of tipping point as far as our FP towards the Middle East is concerned or do you think the right(or should I say wrong) President in the coming years could drag us back to the old ways? I don't think people like McCain and his ilk can win a presidential election so I'm hopeful those types will just eventually die off or get voted out of office until none remain

Id agree with this.

But he does seem to make a point. If the U.S. really wanted Assad gone wouldn't' they have done it?

The support would of been there for it.

I think removing Assad was just more trouble that it was worth. I also like to think, perhaps naively, that the American people's cynicism towards our wars in the ME made supporting such a move so unpopular that those in Congress could reasonably expect to be hammered hard for voting to go into Syria come reelection time so not only was it more trouble than it was worth militarily but also for each individual Senator and Congressmen politically.

So, I read up a bit, and ISIS seems to be sending pretty clear signals to SA that they aren't friends. I'm curious as to what this means in the long run. Southern, less conservative (did I just write that about Saudi Arabia) Sunnis battle against the more militant ISIS ones? I'd have to think ISIS pushing into Saudi Arabia could leave the same sort of vacuum in Syria that allowed ISIS to get a foothold there in the first place. This is all messy as shit.

I don't think ISIS are going to push into Saudi Arabia unless they really cement their presence in Syria and Iraq. It seems to me right now they're really focusing on just holding and gaining more territory in those two countries with SA being the long term goal.

 

[Lee978]

Saudi King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz has died in hospital, state TV says.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30945324

Since there's been a lot of talk of Saudi Arabia I figured I'd post this here. Not sure what the implications of King Abdullah are but I'm sure some of you guys can shed some light on it.

 

[Darkballs]

They are bigger threat to israel and no way would America or the west stand by and watch this threat grow.

ISIS poses no military threat to Israel. Really, ISIS poses no real military threat to any area that isn't chock full of Sunni sympathizers willing to stand aside or provide aid.

ISIS isn't about to set up shop in Beirut or Gaza. The locals wouldn't let it happen and ISIS would be cut to shreds if they tried to move in.

ISIS only threatens Israel in a long roundabout way. That being, once ISIS collapses in the levant, Iran and Hez are going to take advantage of the vacuum to shore up supply lines and positions in the west and possibly push deeper into the Golan. In a nutshell, ISIS's overreach will eventually weaken Sunni support in many of the areas they control, allowing for a shia push in some places.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

I mean look at this craziness.

Reminds me of what I say about my own country, "beautiful country, just a shame about its current occupants."

 

[Hoof Hearted]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet (ex-president linked to Houthis):
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/y...een-houthis-and-ex-president-saleh-1125273454

Yemen is strategically an important country as it is next to the Gulf of Aden. The SAS were sent there in the 60's to overturn an uprising as the UK Government felt there was a threat to the shipping routes through the Gulf of Aden (and into the Suez canal)..although read this, seemed a lot more to it than that: https://markcurtis.wordpress.com/2007/02/13/the-covert-war-in-yemen-1962-70/

Interesting to see what, if anything, western nations have to say about this. The only TV coverage of it I've seen so far has been on Al-Jazeera.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

That's exactly what the Saudis will likely try, and are trying as we speak, but the proxy strategy has proven disastrous over the long term. The Saudis are under ever-increasing militant threat, and they are now bordered to the North and South by complete nutjob fanatics. It might be time for them to reconsider the strategy of pumping the entire region full of well-armed Sunni fanatics, since it's pretty clearly made the entire region far more dangerous for the Saudis -- all that has happened is that radical Sunni militants and militant Shiite groups have risen to power across the entire region. They all hate the House of Saud, whose friends have systematically disappeared and lost all power.

Saudis keep assuming that if you support Sunni jihadis enough across the region, they will roll back Shiite power, but the exact opposite has kept happening over and over again. At some point you've got to ask whether the strategy is not only *evil* but also *a complete failure*. If it was evil but also effective, then you'd have a better argument for keeping at it.

There is no real evidence that they themselves the Saudis are under any threat from the monsters they have created. The USA along with the west will not allow the Saudis to fall to jihadists. We would have to get all our oil from Putin if that happened.

 

[scoopj]

I was actually reading a book on Vedic Indian sacrificial rites, and the author was comparing them to the sacrificial rites set forth in the Torah, specifically the book of Leviticus.

When he quoted that Leviticus verse that is now my signature, I thought 'man, that verse is incredibly metal, like something the JBG would love.' Makes a perfect MMA website signature.

The whole concept of blood atonement is super-metal. Christianity is a religion that is premised on the crucifixion of God, whose blood and body you ritually consume with the community of believers, and thereby achieve salvation. If that's not truly metal, truly JBG, I don't know what is. I mean the central symbol of the religion is a cross on which the believers' God was slain, and then he rose from the dead. Epic ....

It is a great verse. A central Christian prophecy - Jesus Christ as the lamb of God.

What is JBG?

 

[MicroBrew]

There is no real evidence that they themselves the Saudis are under any threat from the monsters they have created. The USA along with the west will not allow the Saudis to fall to jihadists. We would have to get all our oil from Putin if that happened.

The Saudis know they can start shit anywhere because they know Uncle Sam will always come to their aid if they were seriously threatened. Israel is much the same.

 

[Sauron]

I'm not noticing a lot of compare and contrast between a takeover by a shia militia, and a takeover by a sunni group (ISIS) in the media. Perhaps it doesn't suit the narrative.

 

[Zankou]

It is a great verse. A central Christian prophecy - Jesus Christ as the lamb of God.

What is JBG?

Just Bleed God, the MMA deity that always gets praised in threads in the Heavies forum on fight nights. Example.

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f2...-14-warship-service-ragnaroek-awaits-2920545/

 

[MicroBrew]

I'm not noticing a lot of compare and contrast between a takeover by a shia militia, and a takeover by a sunni group (ISIS) in the media. Perhaps it doesn't suit the narrative.

I'm already seeing Arab and Western articles painting a dark and foreboding picture of this latest Houthi development; Iranian support and Houthis being Shia are mentioned prominently and the threat this poses to Israel, International shipping and the Arab states.

I didn't expect anything less from the NeoCon and Sunni Gulf media .