Xande Beats Roger!

Zankou said:
I'm not bashing their success, I'm bashing the style they epitomize -- working the rules to their utmost limits. Saulo is probably my favorite technician -- he's amazing. But I can't watch the man compete. I watched him at the Mundials last year, and it was duller than watching paint dry. I'd much rather watch Roger than see Saulo find an infinitesimal opening to score some points, get them, and then stall to victory. If the rules were changed, I have no doubt that Saulo would be much more exciting to watch -- it's the rules I fault.
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I see what you are saying man, no doubt that is unfortunate that it happens. But at the same time the opponent themselves may be playing such a defensive game that oppurtunities to submit are few and far between. Maybe i am way off base but it seems to me that both saulo and xande have submitted many opponents the majority of the time.
 
Zankou said:
Because BJJ shouldn't be decided based on sudden-death scoring, IMHO. It makes the game way too cautious and conservative. The way it's become, it's incredibly difficult to have back and forth matches, or attack with a really aggressive style. Instead one guy manages to get points by countering a takedown attempt, and then plays stalling defense until his increasingly desperate opponent makes a sloppy mistake, then loses more points. Both guys should bear a burden to really ATTACK throughout. I would like to see a lot more stalling deductions. Otherwise Big Mac is in all of our futures.
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I don't agree with this. For example, top guy is going against someone with a wicked good guard and he finally passes it (with much aggression and effort). He wants to "stall out" or play conservatively, why should he have the burden of attacking throughout and giving the other guy a chance to utilize his strength when he has just spent so much effort passing it? The burden should be on the guy that just got passed, its the guy's burden to make something happen, since the other man just taken the initiative and succeeded. Also stalling is easier said than done when the weight is roughly the same (Not like Jacare vs Couture the example used a few posts before.)
 
Deloitte said:
I don't agree with this. For example, top guy is going against someone with a wicked good guard and he finally passes it (with much aggression and effort). He wants to "stall out" or play conservatively, why should he have the burden of attacking throughout and giving the other guy a chance to utilize his strength when he has just spent so much effort passing it? The burden should be on the guy that just got passed, its the guy's burden to make something happen, since the other man just taken the initiative and succeeded. Also stalling is easier said than done when the weight is roughly the same (Not like Jacare vs Couture the example used a few posts before.)
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I disagree, sport Jiu-Jitsu was always about finishing your opponent not points. Point is an alternative if you couldn't finish your opponent in the time frame. If I didn't finish the opponent then I didn't win ~ Nino says something like that
 
Deloitte said:
I don't agree with this. For example, top guy is going against someone with a wicked good guard and he finally passes it (with much aggression and effort). He wants to "stall out" or play conservatively, why should he have the burden of attacking throughout and giving the other guy a chance to utilize his strength when he has just spent so much effort passing it? The burden should be on the guy that just got passed, its the guy's burden to make something happen, since the other man just taken the initiative and succeeded. Also stalling is easier said than done when the weight is roughly the same (Not like Jacare vs Couture the example used a few posts before.)
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It's less of an issue with passing, more of an issue with takedowns. You don't see guys stalling in side control as much, though you do see it. I don't have a problem with a guy sitting for a minute after he passed guard. But stalling for 3-4 minutes? It's routine nowadays, in almost every match, and it's not good to have in the sport IMHO.
 
There was a great article on Royler in Gracie Mag (cobrina cover) this month. In the article Royler told a story about the match he remember most. He didn't mention the name of the opponent but he said the refferee of the match was his father Helio. Royler said he would pass his opponents guard, mount, and advance position but his father never gave him the points. Royler ended up winning the match by submission. After the match he asked his father I know I won but what about my points. And Helio said something to the effect of to represent jiujitsu well points do not matter I only wanted to see you get the submission.
 
Deloitte said:
I don't agree with this. For example, top guy is going against someone with a wicked good guard and he finally passes it (with much aggression and effort). He wants to "stall out" or play conservatively, why should he have the burden of attacking throughout and giving the other guy a chance to utilize his strength when he has just spent so much effort passing it? The burden should be on the guy that just got passed, its the guy's burden to make something happen, since the other man just taken the initiative and succeeded. Also stalling is easier said than done when the weight is roughly the same (Not like Jacare vs Couture the example used a few posts before.)
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think about the THOUSANDS of aspects and techniques, and submissions bjj offers. if the rules are catering to a person stalling and the fighter wants to get a takedown, pass, and stall as you spoke of, then why compete or even have a round. lets just change the rules to once someone gets a TD and pass then call it a night...assuming they are gonna lay on you. i just think with all that the sport involves, you should use it and not just one or two things to score points and then hold on for dear life
 
fighting101 said:
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think about the THOUSANDS of aspects and techniques, and submissions bjj offers. if the rules are catering to a person stalling and the fighter wants to get a takedown, pass, and stall as you spoke of, then why compete or even have a round. lets just change the rules to once someone gets a TD and pass then call it a night...assuming they are gonna lay on you. i just think with all that the sport involves, you should use it and not just one or two things to score points and then hold on for dear life
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Because takedowns and passing are a huge part of grappling, BJJ and may I even add self defense?
 
i hear you but those are just two of many aspects albeit they are major aspects. what about everything else...bjj can be looked at as a way of life and not just sport. i think if you are a practitioner then you should do justice to everything thats included in it. i hear your arguement and i know everyone has a gameplan against certain foes, i would just like to see every aspect of the sport and not a couple
 
JiuJitsu_Greg said:
I think they did. They seemed to win the most. I left after Rogers match, it didn't sit well with me.
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Are you kidding? Gracie Barra didnt win much at all. Alliance dominated.
 
Zankou said:
It's true that they let people stall for points too much in tournaments. The "Ribeiro" style is extremely effective, but painfully boring. I wish they would penalize for stalling more in BJJ.
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They actually did pretty well imo with the stalling. I saw a bunch of penalties and negative advantages, and a two point deduction.
 
UrbanSavage said:
How close was the last armbar attempt? Just out of curiosity.
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Xande knew the fight was over so he stopped struggling. I'm not saying Roger wouldnt have gotten the armbar, but it would have taken longer. The guys started counting down the time and Xande just stopped resisting when they got down to 3 seconds left. Roger switched to the armbar but the match was over.
 
The coolest thing though was that after the competition we went to a local churrascaria and halfway through the meal a whole bunch of guys walked in including - Renzo, Roger, Rolls Jr. Kyron, Braulio and Vitor, etc, along with Royler, Saulo, Xande, Diego Sanchez, and they all ate together.

BADASS!
 
"Alliance conquered the contest among teams, followed by Gracie Humaita in second and Gracie Barra in third" graciemag


I guess you were right. I swear I saw gracie Barra winning a lot of the matches I watched. I was in the Alliance pit when Kron fought and Alliance was going crazy!!!! they had a great showing .
 
anaconda said:
They actually did pretty well imo with the stalling. I saw a bunch of penalties and negative advantages, and a two point deduction.
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i don't know about the worlds but i actually had a match recently where i got two points awarded due to my opponent stalling. it was the weirdest thing to go through. being stuck in a position by a guy who wouldn't move. even after he shifted to a better position after being warned the second time and could have passed my guard he still wouldn't move. when they stood us up, my only thought was, wow, i'm going to win because of a rule violation. screw this, they should just start this whole match over.
 
Zankou said:
It's true that they let people stall for points too much in tournaments. The "Ribeiro" style is extremely effective, but painfully boring. I wish they would penalize for stalling more in BJJ.
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Xande was penalized 2x in a prior match in the day for stalling. I can't remember who his opponent was in that match, but Xande won it by points despite having 2 penalties.
 
anaconda said:
The coolest thing though was that after the competition we went to a local churrascaria and halfway through the meal a whole bunch of guys walked in including - Renzo, Roger, Rolls Jr. Kyron, Braulio and Vitor, etc, along with Royler, Saulo, Xande, Diego Sanchez, and they all ate together.

BADASS!
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That's a story right there!

It's funny on paper seeing Diego tacked onto the end of your list though. I'm a big Diego fan and he's actually a very good grappler. He hung with Marcelo for a while (I'm sure you know this) and I actually think grappling is his strongest skillset. I know he idolizes Rickson. Was he in the tourney? If so, how did he do? I've never seen him compete in the Gi.
 
I don't diego would be competing since he has a fight in 2 weeks. Last time I heard he was a blue belt. Seems like he would tear through the blue belts.
 
I was ticked off when I saw this match happen.

I don't know why Roger just didn't pull guard....
 
Drew Foster said:
That's a story right there!

It's funny on paper seeing Diego tacked onto the end of your list though. I'm a big Diego fan and he's actually a very good grappler. He hung with Marcelo for a while (I'm sure you know this) and I actually think grappling is his strongest skillset. I know he idolizes Rickson. Was he in the tourney? If so, how did he do? I've never seen him compete in the Gi.
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Diego doesnt (or hasnt) competed in the gi, and I dont think he should either because his rank is way sandbagged. Hes def not more than a blue belt now lol.

The reason he was with them was because he has been training with Saulo and Xande for some time now. He said he loves training with them fwiw.
 
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