WWE reports revenue of $161 M for 4Q 2015, a 15% increase from 2014. + Dana's comment from 2014

[FrankieNYC]

It's just that I hadn't heard that, though I haven't been keeping up with all the backstage shenanigans lately in WWE.

I added more to my post that explains it better.

 

[FrankieNYC]

You did. I hope the wwe network does great but it is funny how people think the UFC isn't paying attention themselves. If a network equals more money than ppv it will move that way, IMO.

After the year UFC had last year, they are not moving fully away from PPV yet.

What I think might occur, is they go to 6 PPV's a year instead of the amount they have now.

 

[phatron]

It's just that I hadn't heard that, though I haven't been keeping up with all the backstage shenanigans lately in WWE.

Pretty sure that user is just going off simple math.

PPV model = 1million buys at $60 = $60 million

Network model = 1million subscribers at $10 = $10 million

So just based on that, they are losing $50 million per Mania from the PPV model.

 

[FrankieNYC]

Pretty sure that user is just going off simple math.

PPV model = 1million buys at $60 = $60 million

Network model = 1million subscribers at $10 = $10 million

That and every person that reports on WWE financials
By the way WWE does not get every dime from a PPV. 50-55% goes to providers.

 

[nanika]

IF the UFC revenue was $550-600 million for 2015. And a great quarter for WWE is $161 million then Zuffa and WWE are on similar financial terms.

 

[phatron]

That and every person that reports on WWE financials
By the way WWE does not get every dime from a PPV. 50-55% goes to providers.

I am aware....just trying to make the point while keeping it simple.

 

[FrankieNYC]

IF the UFC revenue was $550-600 million for 2015. And a great quarter for WWE is $161 million then Zuffa and WWE are on similar financial terms.

WWE spends a lot to make a lot though.
Obviously we don't know Zuffa's books, but WWE has recently lost money (2014).
The numbers look great until you look into it.
WWE stock dropped today.

In 2015 WWE only made $24.1 million profit out of $658.8 million revenue
In 2010 they made $53.5 from $477.7

 

[Max Power]

Pretty sure that user is just going off simple math.

PPV model = 1million buys at $60 = $60 million

Network model = 1million subscribers at $10 = $10 million

So just based on that, they are losing $50 million per Mania from the PPV model.

Yeah, that makes sense alright - I would have thought that they would have found a way to off set the loss in ppv revenue.

 

[FrankieNYC]

Yeah, that makes sense alright - I would have thought that they would have found a way to off set the loss in ppv revenue.

WWE changed the model.
When they started The Network, you had to get a 6 month package ($60) that included Mania.
They changed that because they only did 600-750k in subs.
They hoped they would do 1.25m immediately.

Almost every analyst said in advance that they should have excluded Mania.
They could put all the mania-centric shows during March and still make the $30m off PPV
But once they put Mania on the network, its tough to take it away.
That is where the big difference comes.

When the network first launched, they said they need 1.5m subs every month to equal where they were before.

 

[Thunderflash500]

I see you taking a page out of Dana's hype book.

It's not thousands.....it's $900 for all 13 ppv's in HD and fight pass for the whole year. Instead of stealing, you could actually just go to a bar and watch for free. It's pretty simple. I haven't missed a ppv in over 10 years and I rarely pay for them and never steal them.

You forgot you need to pay for fox too. So to be a fan for the UFC for a year you need spend over a thousand dollars. How are kids living at home supposed to pay for that? I get the ufc doesn't care, and that's fine. But this sport requires you to pay about $100 a month for their content. No other major sport requires that. NFL, NBA, Hockey, Soccer, Tennis, Golf,WWE. Basically just boxing and mma. I think mma could actually be a huge sport if they got rid of ppv. The UFC could become the NFL of mma if they did away with ppv. Who is going to support smaller orgs ppv's if they can just watch the UFC which has better fighters, for free? For boxing it makes sense to have a ppv, it's an incredibly boring sport. The ufc almost every guy 18-35 loves. It's exciting, fast paced, lots of drama and stories, unique people to follow. It's good tv. Give away the best fights and the sport will grow massively. Maybe that's what they are trying with fox, I hope eventually everything is on fox. Right now I don't have any tv, but if the ufc was on fox I'd by Direct Tv just for that.

I know more than one person who used to watch a lot of ufc but eventually stopped because they'd miss the pay per view and just got tired of downloading it or paying for it. And going to a bar is usually pretty fucking lame. It's a bunch of angry retards yelling.

 

[Thunderflash500]

absurd but yet theyre breaking records, haha

Yea I think it makes sense, especially in the past. I'm just saying realistically they should be happy people steal their shows. They can't honestly expect everyone to pay every month. If their was some magical way to stop torrents the ufc's numbers would tank and they'd go back to the dark ages of only hardcore fans and small shows. The people who steal will at least sometimes buy a good card. If it was impossible to steal the ufc's fanbase would plummet. I think it's odd to force your customer into that position. It's like when music was easier to download for free then to pay. Eventually they made the content just as easy to pay for, and at a decent price, and now a lot of people who would steal everything now just pay for it.

I just want to be able to turn on a channel one day, and watch the big show without all the hassle. Or I'd be ok with paying a subscription like the wwe does. Like 30 a month or something. No chance am I going to pay for fox, fight pass, pay per views all separately. I'll just download that shit much quicker as a torrent and it's all in one place.

 

[theheater]

You forgot you need to pay for fox too. So to be a fan for the UFC for a year you need spend over a thousand dollars. How are kids living at home supposed to pay for that? I get the ufc doesn't care, and that's fine. But this sport requires you to pay about $100 a month for their content. No other major sport requires that. NFL, NBA, Hockey, Soccer, Tennis, Golf,WWE. Basically just boxing and mma. I think mma could actually be a huge sport if they got rid of ppv. The UFC could become the NFL of mma if they did away with ppv. Who is going to support smaller orgs ppv's if they can just watch the UFC which has better fighters, for free? For boxing it makes sense to have a ppv, it's an incredibly boring sport. The ufc almost every guy 18-35 loves. It's exciting, fast paced, lots of drama and stories, unique people to follow. It's good tv. Give away the best fights and the sport will grow massively. Maybe that's what they are trying with fox, I hope eventually everything is on fox. Right now I don't have any tv, but if the ufc was on fox I'd by Direct Tv just for that.

Most people have friends. If you don't, thats th exception not the rule. People on low income have roommates to split cable with

Cut the ppv cost by 3 and the cable cost in half and you are looking at a reasonable price. Going to the bar is also cheap if you want. Ordering ppv by yourself is something that should happen rarely. For sure make some friends with common interests

I agree that the ufc should start shifting to a free model for the exposure. Nfl does billions and its free. Same with all the other major sports. I think the next step should be for the ufc to get a lucrative tv deal that allows them to do 4-6 stacked ppv per year. Grow the sport and make the ppv special

 

[FrankieNYC]

Most people have friends. If you don't, thats th exception not the rule. People on low income have roommates to split cable with

Cut the ppv cost by 3 and the cable cost in half and you are looking at a reasonable price. Going to the bar is also cheap if you want. Ordering ppv by yourself is something that should happen rarely. For sure make some friends with common interests

I agree that the ufc should start shifting to a free model for the exposure. Nfl does billions and its free. Same with all the other major sports. I think the next step should be for the ufc to get a lucrative tv deal that allows them to do 4-6 stacked ppv per year. Grow the sport and make the ppv special

Supposedly the average UFC PPV has 4-8 people watching.
That is why RR's PPV do so good.
Because she is a celeb, it is easy to get 5-6 people to chip in.

 

[Thunderflash500]

Most people have friends. If you don't, thats th exception not the rule. People on low income have roommates to split cable with

Cut the ppv cost by 3 and the cable cost in half and you are looking at a reasonable price. Going to the bar is also cheap if you want. Ordering ppv by yourself is something that should happen rarely. For sure make some friends with common interests

I agree that the ufc should start shifting to a free model for the exposure. Nfl does billions and its free. Same with all the other major sports. I think the next step should be for the ufc to get a lucrative tv deal that allows them to do 4-6 stacked ppv per year. Grow the sport and make the ppv special

Most people have lives dude. Not everyone can just get together every other sat night. My friends have kids and wives. Yea they come over some times but again the ufc is making the customer put in extra effort for their product. Its the same thinking the record companies had. They try controlling the process for their own gain, despite the fact that's its simply much more practical to steal. They laughed in apples face until they got their shit pushed in. Now the ufc isn't the music industry but still, they force their customer to put in extra effort to view their products. That forces a TON of people to just lose interest. They litteraly force customers who like their product away. I've seen first hand this happen to multiple people I know. Its hard to be the biggest sport where literally the majority of your fans lose interest because of how much energy or money they must put forth to view the product. The UFC will never be fully mainstream until they allow the mainstream to view the best of their products.

The average person goes oh shit this is great, I want to watch. Oh, wait, I need to pay that much? Nah, I'll not get invested in something I need to pay so much for, I'll stick to football cause it's free and my friends watch it too. Only hardcore fans really stay watching.

 

[Roljo]

actually dana is right, WWE are devaluating their product BUT ufc should definitely study the possibility to put their PPV's on fightpass with increasing the fight pass price... this could increase their profits

 

[BionicCommando]

WWE spends a lot to make a lot though.

Basically. Record revenue this quarter but also operating at a loss.

 

[phatron]

You forgot you need to pay for fox too. So to be a fan for the UFC for a year you need spend over a thousand dollars. How are kids living at home supposed to pay for that? I get the ufc doesn't care, and that's fine. But this sport requires you to pay about $100 a month for their content. No other major sport requires that. NFL, NBA, Hockey, Soccer, Tennis, Golf,WWE. Basically just boxing and mma. I think mma could actually be a huge sport if they got rid of ppv. The UFC could become the NFL of mma if they did away with ppv. Who is going to support smaller orgs ppv's if they can just watch the UFC which has better fighters, for free? For boxing it makes sense to have a ppv, it's an incredibly boring sport. The ufc almost every guy 18-35 loves. It's exciting, fast paced, lots of drama and stories, unique people to follow. It's good tv. Give away the best fights and the sport will grow massively. Maybe that's what they are trying with fox, I hope eventually everything is on fox. Right now I don't have any tv, but if the ufc was on fox I'd by Direct Tv just for that.

I know more than one person who used to watch a lot of ufc but eventually stopped because they'd miss the pay per view and just got tired of downloading it or paying for it. And going to a bar is usually pretty fucking lame. It's a bunch of angry retards yelling.

Just an FYI, if you know someone with cable you can use their username and password to watch FS1 online. I don't have cable or regular tv, so I use my brothers account to watch it online.

I pay $0 a year for UFC by watching at the bar and using my brothers account to watch FS1/FS2. I guess my situation may be abnormal. But I wouldn't watch streams, the quality sucks. I'd rather pay $60.

 

[Thunderflash500]

If the ufc doesn't become like every other major sport, the sport of mma will splinter just like boxing. The ufc will lose dominance, and eventually it'll be a mess of orgs. For good or bad. The only way they remain dominant is to remove ppv.

 

[FrankieNYC]

If the ufc doesn't become like every other major sport, the sport of mma will splinter just like boxing. The ufc will lose dominance, and eventually it'll be a mess of orgs. For good or bad. The only way they remain dominant is to remove ppv.

That is a long way away though.
They just had their best fiscal year ever.
They showed that superstars can still move PPV numbers.

 

[Thunderflash500]

That is a long way away though.
They just had their best fiscal year ever.
They showed that superstars can still move PPV numbers.

It will be a long time, but it'll happen. Bellator is a legit run business that has some great talent. It's not Pride being run by gangsters. It's on American television and they allow fighters to have sponsers. The ufc still offers better opportunity to champions, but the scales are not so one sided like it used to be.