Wrestling > boxing > sambo > kickboxing > MMA > BJJ

dipstickjimmy said:
There are so many? How many boxers have gone into MMA and beaten an MMA fighter? I mean boxers who only box. Not a kickboxer who also boxed or was a high level wrestler. Don't give me the Ray Mercer vs Big Timmy as your gold standard. Name one boxer who beat an MMA fighter in an MMA fight?
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You do know there are a lot of fighters using high level boxing in mma to win their mma fights? They usually win because they have a clear cut striking advantage vs who they fight. If those fighters can win with high level mma boxing, you think elite level boxing wouldn't be able to do the same thing? Lots of boxers have muay thai/kickboxing wrestling/sambo experience before focusing on boxing for the better pay. People assume boxers are completely ignorant to kicks and grappling. No, it's because they just focused on boxing because they had the skillset to become pro boxers and make better money.
 
shrdgr said:
Look, you don't make big money in competitive wrestling as a professional because that simply is not a thing. It doesn't exist. There are high quality college athletes of many sports that aren't compensated. That doesn't make them bad athletes.
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That's the point he's making, they go into mma because that's their only option to make money from their wrestling skillset. Most combat sports fighters do the same thing, they all get into mma to make better pay since mma pays better than wrestling/bjj/kickboxing/muaythai/karate/TKD/Judo/Sambo etc. It's not like that for boxing that's why you don't have elite level cross overs from boxing. Boxing is the highest paying combat sport so the ones that can become elite/high level stay in boxing and have no incentive to go anywhere else.

If those same fighters switching to mma could make it in boxing, they would also switch to boxing if they could. Because the reason they get into mma in the first place is usually to try and make money with the skillset they already have and they are looking for a career where they can get paid. Money is the motivation and if they could make more money boxing they would. They just don't have the skillset to do so.
 
FIghtxIQ said:
If those same fighters switching to mma could make it in boxing, they would also switch to boxing if they could. Because the reason they get into mma in the first place is usually to try and make money with the skillset they already have and they are looking for a career where they can get paid. Money is the motivation and if they could make more money boxing they would. They just don't have the skillset to do so.
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I would only add one exception : if you're hurry to succeed, you can do it faster in MMA than in boxing.

Becoming a champion in boxing usually takes a lot more time, even if you're talented enough.

We already got Stipe vs Francis 2 while we're still waiting for Fury vs Joshua...

So MMA can appeal athletes hungry for fast recognition.

But as a general rule, i agree with you.
 
shrdgr said:
The point is that boxers would be more able to do well in MMA than MMA fighters would be in boxing. To take this to an extreme, it's like how a half-decent judoka would destroy any aikidoka. Then again, top boxers will never cross over into MMA because there is no money to be made, but even the relatively small sample we have is enough proof that boxers are better athletes than MMA fighters. Their technical mindset and physical ability simply transfers better.
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That's not really comparable. The reason MMA fighters do worse when they cross over to boxing is most of the training they do, all the grappling, wrestling, and kicks, is basically useless for boxing.
Even a lot of the punching in MMA is useless in boxing, which only allows you to hit the front of your opponent's upper body with the front of your fist while they are standing. Hammer fists, backfists, elbows, and GnP are all illegal and clinches get broken up fast.

Boxers can have more success doing MMA because they are so good at punching. They start at 0 with everything else but they can learn, and they haven't wasted time learning things they can't use.

I think also pro boxers tend to get into boxing at a much younger age, like 12 or 13. Tons of MMA fighters started in their mid-twenties, sometimes without any prior combat sport experience.
 
Yellowcrab said:
I would only add one exception : if you're hurry to succeed, you can do it faster in MMA than in boxing.

Becoming a champion in boxing usually takes a lot more time, even if you're talented enough.

We already got Stipe vs Francis 2 while we're still waiting for Fury vs Joshua...

So MMA can appeal athletes hungry for fast recognition.

But as a general rule, i agree with you.
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True lots of fighters can use mma to springboard a boxing career. That's what Ngannou is doing and what Conor tried to do and will probably end up doing to close out his career. Anderson is finally getting his boxing fights and Aldo has expressed interest in switching to boxing after mma. Stipe has shown interest as well.

Fury vs Joshua will happen, it's just the negotiations and location that they are going through. It will happen, too big of a fight not to. Just a lot of money involved for that fight so it won't be a quick deal.
 
Sticko said:
That's not really comparable. The reason MMA fighters do worse when they cross over to boxing is most of the training they do, all the grappling, wrestling, and kicks, is basically useless for boxing.
Even a lot of the punching in MMA is useless in boxing, which only allows you to hit the front of your opponent's upper body with the front of your fist while they are standing. Hammer fists, backfists, elbows, and GnP are all illegal and clinches get broken up fast.
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Good point. We have to recognize good arguments.

Being good in boxing is very useful in MMA, but everything else MMA fighters learn (boxing excepted obviously) is useless in boxing.
 
shrdgr said:
Why doesn't Ray Mercer vs Tim Sylvia work as an example? Let's not pretend Ray Mercer was a spring chicken in that fight. Also, Petr Yan earned a Master of Sports in boxing before embarking on his MMA career. And Francis Ngannou's background going into MMA was basically backyard boxing. And when you include guys that dabbled in boxing and kickboxing before MMA, then the list keeps expanding. Dillian Whyte trained boxing and kickboxing before going 1-0 in MMA. Cro Cop started as an amateur boxer. Kharitonov also trained boxing first and had an amateur career. So as you see, boxers have done fairly well in MMA while MMA fighters don't get too far in boxing.
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You are full of shit. Boxing is a part of MMA. But only one part. Name a boxer who did the same thing as Conor did going over to Box Floyd in his first pro boxing bout. Or shall we just say that Conor is a boxer first since he did amateur boxing.

Ray Mercer vs Big Timmy was a one off for a couple of reasons. First at HW anyone can land a KO shot. Second the ruleset was changed at the last second as it was supposed to be a boxing match and no commission would sanction it as such. Third Timmy was 310 lbs. Mercer was also submitted, YES submitted by Kimbo Slice.
 
FIghtxIQ said:
You do know there are a lot of fighters using high level boxing in mma to win their mma fights? They usually win because they have a clear cut striking advantage vs who they fight. If those fighters can win with high level mma boxing, you think elite level boxing wouldn't be able to do the same thing? Lots of boxers have muay thai/kickboxing wrestling/sambo experience before focusing on boxing for the better pay. People assume boxers are completely ignorant to kicks and grappling. No, it's because they just focused on boxing because they had the skillset to become pro boxers and make better money.
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A boxer who has grappling and kickboxing and wrestling and karate and TKD and Muay Thai experience is a Boxer? You sure that doesn't make them a Mixed Martial Artist.

Every MMA fighter alive has trained boxing so they are all boxers then right?

Do you have an example of a PURE elite boxer using only their boxing skills to win an MMA fight?
 
dipstickjimmy said:
You are full of shit. Boxing is a part of MMA. But only one part. Name a boxer who did the same thing as Conor did going over to Box Floyd in his first pro boxing bout. Or shall we just say that Conor is a boxer first since he did amateur boxing.

Ray Mercer vs Big Timmy was a one off for a couple of reasons. First at HW anyone can land a KO shot. Second the ruleset was changed at the last second as it was supposed to be a boxing match and no commission would sanction it as such. Third Timmy was 310 lbs. Mercer was also submitted, YES submitted by Kimbo Slice.
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Do you think a past-prime MMA fighter can march into boxing and KO a past-prime but formerly high level boxer? Hell no. Boxers have a puncher's chance in MMA, but MMA fighters don't have a puncher's chance in boxing. And why would a high level boxer in his prime even go into MMA? Nobody wants to get paid peanuts and take valuable time off training grappling. Unlike with Petr Yan or Stipe Miocic, there is no record of Conor McGregor having an amateur boxing career. McGregor is a MMA fighter first. Once again, I'm not saying any boxer can just march into MMA and start winning (basic TDD and submission defense are vital), but boxers have a better puncher's chance and can pick up basic MMA techniques quicker than MMA fighters can in boxing. They're simply better athletes.
 
dipstickjimmy said:
A boxer who has grappling and kickboxing and wrestling and karate and TKD and Muay Thai experience is a Boxer? You sure that doesn't make them a Mixed Martial Artist.

Every MMA fighter alive has trained boxing so they are all boxers then right?

Do you have an example of a PURE elite boxer using only their boxing skills to win an MMA fight?
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Yes they are pro boxers but they also know other martial arts. People think boxers only know boxing. There are a lot of boxers that have cross trained and focused on boxing since they had the skillset to go pro in boxing and get paid more for it. It's prize fighting. Fighters are after the biggest prize, if they have the skillset to get boxing pay they are staying in boxing and not doing mma/kickboxing/muay thai/etc instead.

Yes mma fighters have trained boxing that's why they fight boxers in boxing. Since it's something they also trained. Not every boxer trains mma so to look for that advantage is weak minded. Boxers and mma fighters both train boxing so it's the even playing field, boxers are just better skilled at it than most mma fighters. Being able to out grapple people with no grappling training is not something to be proud of, out grapple other skilled grapplers.
 
I place both crane style and tiger style over basic wrestling, but then again I have a bias as my kung fu is exceptionally strong in general
 
shrdgr said:
Ranked by athleticism of top practitioners. Time after time, UFC fighters have shown that they are less athletic than even mediocre boxers. Forget about comparing UFC fighters to wrestlers.
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Wow, top level analysis there.



<{cruzshake}>



Join date checks out...
 
FIghtxIQ said:
Yes they are pro boxers but they also know other martial arts. People think boxers only know boxing. There are a lot of boxers that have cross trained and focused on boxing since they had the skillset to go pro in boxing and get paid more for it. It's prize fighting. Fighters are after the biggest prize, if they have the skillset to get boxing pay they are staying in boxing and not doing mma/kickboxing/muay thai/etc instead.

Yes mma fighters have trained boxing that's why they fight boxers in boxing. Since it's something they also trained. Not every boxer trains mma so to look for that advantage is weak minded. Boxers and mma fighters both train boxing so it's the even playing field, boxers are just better skilled at it than most mma fighters. Being able to out grapple people with no grappling training is not something to be proud of, out grapple other skilled grapplers.
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FIghtxIQ said:
Yes they are pro boxers but they also know other martial arts. People think boxers only know boxing. There are a lot of boxers that have cross trained and focused on boxing since they had the skillset to go pro in boxing and get paid more for it. It's prize fighting. Fighters are after the biggest prize, if they have the skillset to get boxing pay they are staying in boxing and not doing mma/kickboxing/muay thai/etc instead.

Yes mma fighters have trained boxing that's why they fight boxers in boxing. Since it's something they also trained. Not every boxer trains mma so to look for that advantage is weak minded. Boxers and mma fighters both train boxing so it's the even playing field, boxers are just better skilled at it than most mma fighters. Being able to out grapple people with no grappling training is not something to be proud of, out grapple other skilled grapplers.
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Again you are mixing things. You are a boxer if you box but if you fight MMA you will lose to a boxer whether in Boxing or MMA because they are boxers and you are not even if you train boxing????????

You are running in circles. The point I was replying to was that boxers will beat MMA fighters and Randy Couture vs James Toney and Artem vs Malignaggi are the only exceptions. Since neither of those bouts were boxing the implication is boxers are better fighters with ONLY their BOXING. If you put Floyd Mayweather into a cage with anyone in the UFC LW division he gets killed. Put those same fighters in a boxing ring with Floyd they lose.
 
dipstickjimmy said:
Again you are mixing things. You are a boxer if you box but if you fight MMA you will lose to a boxer whether in Boxing or MMA because they are boxers and you are not even if you train boxing????????

You are running in circles. The point I was replying to was that boxers will beat MMA fighters and Randy Couture vs James Toney and Artem vs Malignaggi are the only exceptions. Since neither of those bouts were boxing the implication is boxers are better fighters with ONLY their BOXING. If you put Floyd Mayweather into a cage with anyone in the UFC LW division he gets killed. Put those same fighters in a boxing ring with Floyd they lose.
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Boxing is just one martial arts in mma. Not all boxers cross train. There are boxers that cross train and focused in boxing because they have the skillset to do it. Boxing works in mma. There are high level mma boxers, and the wrestler boxer style was a popular mma style that most used. Pro boxers that are elite/high level have better boxing skillset than what is currently in mma. That was evident in the Conor vs Mayweather fight and all the other fights where mma fighters challenge pro boxers.

It's not hard to grasp. If you have mma fighters challenge boxers the level playing field is boxing since they all train it. If you are looking for an advantage than you will want a grappling advantage or kicking advantage vs fighters that don't train any of that. The level playing field is in boxing and that's why these fights are done using boxing. Plus the pay is better in boxing so it doesn't make sense to try and get a boxer to do mma for less pay when you guys can fight in boxing and make more. It's prize fighting. It's the reason combat sports athletes/fighters got into mma in the first place. So they can make more money compared to what they were making in their specialized sport/martial arts discipline. If they could do boxing they would do boxing instead. Just look at the pay in the boxing fights compared to mma fights. Who would want to do mma instead for less pay if you had an option to make more?

I understand your point and it's not that simiple really. Fighters come into mma with zero striking ability and become mma champions. Fighers also come into mma with zero grappling ability and also become champions. Even if they don't become champions there are a lot of fighters that fit those molds. You can't expect elite level boxers to not be able to adjust when other fighters that aren't elite level are able to adjust in mma. You are underestimating elite level boxers, and that's why the elite level boxers are always winning the fights. Plus there are boxers that cross trained and know other martial arts so for them they know how fight "mma" they just fight in boxing because the money is better. So you can't just assume all boxers will lose to an "mma" fighter in a fight. It's not that simple.
 
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Conor would have wrecked Pretty Boy Floyd inside of two minutes in the Octagon and Floyd knows it. Fuck this celebrity boxing shit to. Jake Paul needs to step into the Octagon and fight somebody his own fucking size. Lost of you made fun of CM Punk but that guy showed massive balls and heart stepping into the Octagon, especially in his last fight. As for wrestling vs BJJ, sure some wrestlers did pretty good in Abu Dhabi but none I can remember were champions. Maybe Monson won but he was trained in both.
 
Reffson said:
Conor would have wrecked Pretty Boy Floyd inside of two minutes in the Octagon and Floyd knows it. Fuck this celebrity boxing shit to. Jake Paul needs to step into the Octagon and fight somebody his own fucking size. Lost of you made fun of CM Punk but that guy showed massive balls and heart stepping into the Octagon, especially in his last fight. As for wrestling vs BJJ, sure some wrestlers did pretty good in Abu Dhabi but none I can remember were champions. Maybe Monson won but he was trained in both.
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Can you think of anybody who started out as a BJJ artist and managed to compete in high level amateur wrestling?
 
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