Wrestlers please read

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by JZMinotauro, Aug 16, 2010.

  1. JZMinotauro

    JZMinotauro Orange Belt

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    Why is it that wrestling is arguably the most dominant art in mma (with bjj of course) yet people don't know anything about it?

    http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f61/daniel-cormier-wins-again-1st-kotc-1315573/index9.html

    WHERE DO PEOPLE COME UP WITH THIS STUFF???

    What is with the total lack of appreciation for folkstyle wrestling and why do people think that freestyle wrestling, where you have to expose your opponents back to the mat, is so good for mma?

    (we were discussing why folkstyle is beter for mma)

    Look I can deal with discussion, but why do people pretend to know about this? If one made a mistake about bjj or boxing/kickboxing, this guy would have been torn up immediately, yet there is no controversy over this matter, so people feel fit to make things up to fit their agenda. WHY??????

    People out there actually believe this, come one a JUCO greco wrestler? Cael Sanderson is sloppy?
     
  2. CaliKid45

    CaliKid45 Yellow Belt

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    folkstyle is more controleed based which is better for mma look at the best wrestlers in mma their all folk. Freestyle is a totally different animal, different rules and moves
     
  3. td82394

    td82394 Brown Belt

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    I had Greco figured to be the best wrestling style actually. Maybe I'm biased.
     
  4. CaliKid45

    CaliKid45 Yellow Belt

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    defintly not you cant shoot in greco so you rarely sprawl. you dont ever use legs becasue your not aloud to and thats bullshit (biased im a legrunner). but for mma it def isnt unless your focus is wallnstall
     
  5. knoxpk

    knoxpk Black Belt

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    We have spoken about this often. Freestyle and greco is alot like judo without the gi in international comps. The focus is more based on takedowns, throws and back exposure as opposed to control.

    This is evidenced by the scoring and the limited time to work on the mat.

    IIRC Oklahoma state picked up a Russian wrestler that trained with one of the worlds greatest wrestler and by the logic you quoted he should have walked over the competition on his way to a title. He didn't win.

    “People look at wrestling differently (in Russia),” said Alan Gelogaev, who will be a junior at Oklahoma State in 2010-11.

    Master technician Saitiev collects third gold medal - USATODAY.com

    What you learn AND practice in folk is takedown to control to pin and the counters and escapes to all of the above. You don't have a ref that will save you if you cannot get away, you have to earn it. In international comps, I can stall for 15 seconds and viola, we are back on the feet.
     
  6. BruceLeeMMA

    BruceLeeMMA Purple Belt

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    My feeling is that over the course of an MMA career, Greco or Judo is the safest most effective takedown style because you can get into the clinch without compromising yourself to knees, kicks or uppercuts. There is alot of longevity in this style

    Lowering your level seems to expose your head/face to knees and kicks and percentages say that eventually something unlucky will happen the more you fight.

    Double/Single Leg fighters:
    Mark Kerr : Self DDTed by Yamamoto on a double.
    Coleman: gassed vs Mo Smith, RHK KTFO by Pete Williams
    Randleman: not sure when it happened but he has declined rapidly
    Matt Hughes: highly succesful career but ate some knees and kicks from Thiago Alves.
    Ricardo Arona
    Ricco Rodriquez

    Greco/Judo fighters
    Fedor
    Randy Couture
    Dan Henderson
    Matt Lindland
    Yoshida
    Kaz Nakamura


    It will be interesting what will happen to GSP and Lesnar over their MMA career (who are primarily double/single leg guys).
     
  7. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    Current MMA rules favor folkstyle heavily because there is no strikes to the head of "grounded" opponent with the knees or kicks.

    Therefore any sloppy folkstyle wrestler can dive head in against pretty much anybody and then "crotch sniff" into safety, if the guy sprawl he can't really do power shots, and since folkstyle is heavy in control, they are hard to reverse.

    Basically MMA is turning into,

    Shoot if sprawl, crotch sniff and try to work TD from there, get stood up.

    Shoot if managed to take takedown, do nothing but pin and pillow fist.


    Simply watch Mu
     
  8. Pahlavan**

    Pahlavan** White Belt

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    Kamal Shalarous
     
  9. 206warrior

    206warrior Purple Belt

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    His single legs are what I imagine it would look like if God did one. Fucking freak athlete also.
     
  10. knoxpk

    knoxpk Black Belt

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    Seriously? I feel that folkstyle guys would do even better if this was back in MMA> Yeah sure you would have some slop get caught an punished but I think you would see far more guys use the pin to keep the guy down while they maneuvered to strike the head with knees.

    Hell didn't coleman knee his way to a Pride title back in the day?
     
  11. Lapu-Lapu

    Lapu-Lapu Brown Belt

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    Some of what the guy said wasn't stupid at all. If you wrestle in a international level then you will become a better wrestler. The competition in Russia, Cuba, etc is the best in the world. And GSP isn't a world class wrestler, if opponents didn't have to worry about getting punched in the face then he wouldn't be taken down so many people with ease. Plus, having a good shot doesn't mean you are a great wrestler.

    Also, Sakuraba's single leg is the single leg of God.
     
  12. JZMinotauro

    JZMinotauro Orange Belt

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  13. JZMinotauro

    JZMinotauro Orange Belt

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    Wat?

    How do current rules favor folkstyle because of no knees on the ground?

    You do know Cecil Peoples of all people scored it for Munoz so it doesn't count right?
     
  14. Darkhorse

    Darkhorse White Belt

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    i'm sure all high level "folkstyle wrestlers" have done a fair amount of freestyle and greco. it's what you do in the off-season.
     
  15. nni

    nni Orange Belt

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    Right now the rules favour both skilled and unskilled wrestlers. If knees to a downed opponent were allowed, the good wrestlers would be better off and the bad wrestlers would get punished.

    Guys that just spam single legs and hold on for dear life are favoured. They know that they can stay there because the other fighter cannot use knees/kicks. All they are doing is exploiting a rule in a way that was not intended.
     
  16. JZMinotauro

    JZMinotauro Orange Belt

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    You left out the part that said Cael Sanderson was SLOPPY before he went to freestyle. Explain to me how Sanderson technique becomes good as soon as he becomes a freestyle wrestler when he has worked on his technique his whole life? How about saying a good freestyle wrestler would beat a good folkstyle wrestler at his own game? And no if you wrestle at an international level then you don't get better at folkstyle. Anything he said that was true didn't address my argument.

    GSP is world class mma wrestler because no one in his weight class is better than him in mma wrestling. He doesn't need to compete to show that he is good in mma.

    And what's this punching BS? It's mma of course you have to set up shot's with you're punches because no one is going to hand fight with you.
     
  17. JZMinotauro

    JZMinotauro Orange Belt

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    What does this have to do with folkstyle? And you do know that was just one fight and of all people who scored it, it was Cecil peoples, don't let one fight make you judge all wrestlers and fights.
     
  18. nni

    nni Orange Belt

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    I was responding to knoxpk's post.

    This is not based on one fight. It's based on watching multiple fights where bad wrestlers just spam single legs and when defended just hold on. Because the worse thing that can happen to them is being hammerfisted. As long as they have a knee on the ground they are "safe" from knees and kicks.
     
  19. Nick Kilian

    Nick Kilian Amateur Fighter

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    Not sure Greco Roman is as amazing as everyone feels it is in MMA. I did Freestyle/Folkstyle but as I watched Greco it feels very slowed down compared to other forms. I think there is a higher intensity and control that comes with Freestlye/Folkstyle that Greco doesn't use.

    Now I understand how good upper body strength and quick trunk movement could be valuable for MMA but it really isn't used in MMA more successfully than regular shot takedowns.
     
  20. nni

    nni Orange Belt

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    Lapu-Lapu said GSP wasn't a world class wrestler. That's a fact. You refuted him by saying GSP has the best mma wrestling. They are two different things.
     

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