Wrestlers need to man up

[Rod1]

Thank you for bringing to light 2 more wrestlers who were UFC Champions in Carwin and Mir.........

You said that JDS is only number 2 because HW division is devoid of wrestlers, which is a lie because plenty of wrestlers have entered that division, those 2 specifically were beat by JDS.

 

[Rod1]

The rules favor wrestlers who can box, nothing about what I said was nonsense. The gloves make punching that often without breaking a hand a realistic option when it wouldn't be without them, they also make chokes much more difficult which obviously helps wrestlers. The cage undoubtedly helps them, not having to worry about being hit anywhere near the back of the head when their shots get stuffed helps them. The fact that they can't get upkicked while in someone's guard helps them. Stand ups and rounds hurt BJJ practitioners more than anything.

I'd love to hear how any of this is wrong. The fact that the most successful wrestlers in MMA today are the ones who've learned to strike effectively doesn't negate anything I said.

Completely different statements.

You say rules favor wrestlers and now you explain that rules are against BJJers in order for your assertion to hold true then wrestling and BJJ would need to be the 2 only aspects of the game.

 

[Rod1]

The gloves favor wrestlers who have taken 2 years and learned to strike decently. Being a world class striker doesn't help you if you can be ragdolled at will by a great wrestler, but being a a great wrestler that does a few things really well striking wise, or even just one thing at a world class level makes you an MMA beast.

Against a better striker who isn't as good of a wrestler you take them down and GNP. You can shoot all day with almost no penalty for a failed shot cause you can't get a knee to the head if your knee is down.

Because only the wrestlers are allowed to crosstrain? being able to bang striking is harder than learning to defend against wrestling.

To properly defend standing up you need to learn both defense and offense, to be able to defend against wrestling you only need to learn TDD and to standup.

Thats why wrestlers with sucky striking are no longer a thing at the top of the UFC, while strikers with no offensive wrestling are.

 

[Dirty Holt]

Haters coming out in full force; something wrestlers are accustomed to. We always get the hottest chicks in highschool and college despite being built like small trolls and everyone hates it and cannot understand how the wrestlers are out pulling the basketball players.

Even better is the haters main gripe: "Wrestlers are beating everyone with strikes, not wrestling." Exactly. American wrestling is such a dominant style, that it can even out strike the striking styles. By page 7 the main argument will be weight cutting.

 

[jcandoitbig]

We always get the hottest chicks in highschool and college

lol. not in Cali

 

[Rod1]

Haters coming out in full force; something wrestlers are accustomed to. We always get the hottest chicks in highschool and college despite being built like small trolls and everyone hates it and cannot understand how the wrestlers are out pulling the basketball players.

Even better is the haters main gripe: "Wrestlers are beating everyone with strikes, not wrestling." Exactly. American wrestling is such a dominant style, that it can even out strike the striking styles. By page 7 the main argument will be weight cutting.

Maybe in Iowa but not in Cali, my wife has a lot of nephews who dropped wrestling to get into the football team, because thats where glory is.

 

[jcandoitbig]

Maybe in Iowa but not in Cali, my wife has a lot of nephews who dropped wrestling to get into the football team, because thats where glory is.

yea i'd say football and water polo are the two chick magnets

 

[eworden78]

lol. not in Cali

Or Washington.

 

[eworden78]

yea i'd say football and water polo are the two chick magnets

Water polo? In my HS water polo was all dorks.

 

[jcandoitbig]

Water polo? In my HS water polo was all dorks.

lol o yea man especially in so cal

 

[Title Fight Productions]

You said that JDS is only number 2 because HW division is devoid of wrestlers, which is a lie because plenty of wrestlers have entered that division, those 2 specifically were beat by JDS.

Hmmmm...... Good point. Can I use th "past there prime" argument?

 

[ganssle]

Part of me thinks Dirty Holt is a trolling genius.
Part of me thinks Dirty Holt is extremely annoying.
Don't hate him, haters. Haterade haters hate.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

So let's say all or even most wrestlers have that mentality. Which ones rise to the top, to win national championships, become all Americans, etc? The most athletic ones. Those are also the ones you see transitioning into MMA. Most fighters in the UFC have worked very, very hard for a very, very long time. Athleticism is a huge separating factor between 20-10th ranked guys and top 10 guys, and wrestlers who have made it through the grind of high school and college wrestling in the US have it in spades. You're starting with a very, very broad base of participation and only the most successful and athletic guys are going to stick with the sport all the way through college. The pyramid is much more narrow for BJJ, kickboxing, and (in the US) Judo, so the guys at the top have not had to overcome the same kind of opposition as elite wrestlers.

When everyone works hard and everyone is mentally tough, only the best athletes are going to rise to the top. Those are the wrestlers we see transitioning to the UFC, and they're head and shoulders above the rest in terms of athleticism. And it's a huge factor in their dominance because it lets them pick up other skills so quickly and do things that other fighters simply can't do from an athletic standpoint. Yes Dan Cormier works hard and is a great fighter, but think about how quickly he's picked up striking and submissions. Look at what he did powerbombing Dan Henderson. His speed and explosive strength are off the charts, and a guy like Glover Texiera is never going to match that no matter how hard he works. Cormier just has a higher top end, and on average anyone who's made it through the crucible of American wrestling (or Russian or Iranian wrestling, for that matter) is going to have that athleticism because otherwise they wouldn't have made it through. The gulag doesn't make you tough, it just kills off anyone who isn't tough.

uchi is totally right...

american wrestlers are probably the best suited athletes to enter mma, with the best skills... they may have not been the best natural pure athletes in the US, some of you say that best athletes are in football and basketball, yeah best natural atheltes, most top wrestlers coming out of college are probably the elite of the elite in terms of athletism, at least the athletism that translate to fighting... Ridiculous quotes a la "NBA atheltes are the best" yeah for playing basketball or jumping high, not for a sport in which staying on your feet is highly desirable... Wrestling takes a bunch of guys and put them through some hell, the ones coming out on top are the elite of the elite, comparable to the best athletes in the world. Chael sonnen said it himself, is not wrestling techniques what makes great mma fighters, is the physical training and mental toughness this guys have, this is what makes the difference. Also, is no coincidence than wrestlers pick up striking so well, hell is not rare to see wrestlers outstriking technical strikers in mma, technical striking ala kickboxing is not mma striking, where you can replace technical with brawling power, which seems to be pretty efficient too...

Bjj guys, except for a few examples are just not nor will eve be at the same level of athleticism wrestlers are, because the nature of the sport is not about explosiveness (as much) as it is in wrestling, also, dont matter how hard guys train at top level teams, I dont think is half of what college wrestlers get put through...

technique can beat strenght, only as long as strength has no technique...

by the way, gloves favor strikers not wrestler or grapplers all around.

 

[Rod1]

Hmmmm...... Good point. Can I use th "past there prime" argument?

The one vs Carwin was a title eliminator and the one vs Mir was a title fight.

So no, you can however use the HW shallow division card.

 

[Rod1]

People saying BB and Football has the best athletes are idiots, most BB and Football players would be HWs in MMA, from middleweight to below, none of these would cut it for BB or Football even if they were fucking Captain America.

 

[Uchi Mata]

yea i'd say football and water polo are the two chick magnets

Water polo? In my high school the pecking order was: football > basketball > track/swimming/baseball/wrestling. I don't think the golfers were getting laid. I played Rugby, that was a mixed bag. There were some cool alt stoner types who got laid, and the rest of us were mostly dorks who liked contacts sports but hated football and we were most certainly not up to our necks in pussy.

 

[Uchi Mata]

People saying BB and Football has the best athletes are idiots, most BB and Football players would be HWs in MMA, from middleweight to below, none of these would cut it for BB or Football even if they were fucking Captain America.

This is a very good point. The absolute best athletes among smaller guys have traditionally been attracted to weight class sports like wrestling and boxing, so I think WW and below you do have really the best athletes of that size in scholastic wrestling. Among LHWs and HWs (certain builds of MWs too) the best athletes can go to other more popular/lucrative sports and so they do. And I don't think anyone would argue that the lower weight classes in MMA feature a much higher average level of athleticism than the HWs.

 

[Tony Manifold]

Actually most of the champions are wrestlers. Cain, Jones, Weidman, Hendricks, dillashaw and johnson(?) Are all wrestlers who are also good strikers. But all them have been successful as wrestlers.

 

[knoxpk]

Haters coming out in full force; something wrestlers are accustomed to. We always get the hottest chicks in highschool and college despite being built like small trolls and everyone hates it and cannot understand how the wrestlers are out pulling the basketball players.

Even better is the haters main gripe: "Wrestlers are beating everyone with strikes, not wrestling." Exactly. American wrestling is such a dominant style, that it can even out strike the striking styles. By page 7 the main argument will be weight cutting.

Its all in the hips.

 

[rmongler]

Actually most of the champions are wrestlers. Cain, Jones, Weidman, Hendricks, dillashaw and johnson(?) Are all wrestlers who are also good strikers. But all them have been successful as wrestlers.

we should keep in mind that a major difference in mma stand up compared to 'purer' striking sports is that ones striking game is also set up by the threat of a take down (or vice versa), if you indeed have a credible threat that must be respected.