Wrestlers need to man up

And get Aldo/Pettis out of there. Make it a clean UFC sweep of American collegiate wrestling dominance.

Judokas and European sympathists, go ahead and get pissed.

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Is that Mario Lopez?
 
Yes. And I'll quickly call Zach of course. Now, any volunteers for now porn star Screech?
 
Most of them aren't athletic enough. Seriously, think about the best BJJ guys in MMA: Roger, Maia, Shields, etc. Only Jacare really has the level of athleticism that's equilvalent to a high level wrestler, and he takes people down all the time. Those other guys are slow and plodding. They've managed to make that work for them to a certain level, but they'll never be shooting doubles like GSP because they have neither the speed nor the reflexes. That's why BJJ guys tend to rely on the clinch for their TDs: it doesn't require nearly the level of explosiveness, it's more about dominating grips and catching the guy off balance ala Judo. One of the things I like best about BJJ (as a not terribly athletic guy) is that technique makes up for a lack of athleticism more than in most other sports. But that's also a detriment when high level BJJ guys enter MMA, most of their technique is useless, and they need to fall back on a raw athleticism they just don't possess. Why do you think Jacare's striking has gotten so good so fast while guys with comparable BJJ achievements like Roger and Maia still look terrible on the feet? It's because Jacare is twice the athlete those guys are and as such he can pick up and execute new parts of the game without a lifetime of training.

This is the second post you mention athletism as the underlying factor. I believe wrestling is more about hard work, dedication, and technique than it is about being a "great athlete".

I think it's because wrestlers learn from a very young age to work there asses off and to refuse to loose.
 
Yes. And I'll quickly call Zach of course. Now, any volunteers for now porn star Screech?

Is Tiffani Amber Thiessen still a hottie? long time no see her anywhere.
 
This is the second post you mention athletism as the underlying factor. I believe wrestling is more about hard work, dedication, and technique than it is about being a "great athlete".

I think it's because wrestlers learn from a very young age to work there asses off and to refuse to loose.

Because in other sports you learn to lose a lot?

Its a combination of athleticism, lack of career options in wrestling and the fact that MMA is an american sport.
 
Is that Mario Lopez?

No, man, that's A.C. Slater, star wrestler from Bayside High. He had offers from Iowa, Penn St., etc., but got Kelly Kapowski pregnant and had to give up wrestling. Heard he fought underground MMA for a while to help pay for diapers and stuff.
 
Wrestlers are by far the best athletes entering MMA. Just look at what a guy like Dillashaw could do in terms of picking up striking to the point where he looks like one of the best kickboxers in the UFC. He didn't wrestle Barao at all, but he was was a lot faster, stronger, and quicker and he made him look terrible. Jones is probably the best athlete in the UFC now that GSP is retired and he became champ after like 2.5 years of training. In general non-wrestlers just can't keep up with the D1 alums physically. Hell, look at how Cormier was able to just ragdoll people in both HW and LHW; that's a level of athleticism that non-wrestlers in MMA just don't have. BJJ and kickboxing are such niche sports that you don't necessarily have guys with elite athleticism rise to the top (simply because there aren't that many elite athletes who pick up those sports in the first place), so when they make the transition to MMA they've never dealt with guys as strong and fast as D1 all Americans and frankly can't handle it. To say nothing of how useful wrestling is as a skill set, or in building a winning mentality.

American wrestling was always just a huge pool of athletic talent that largely went wasted as there wasn't a professional route for wrestlers post college. MMA has changed that, I'm not at all surprised to see the success wrestlers have had.

excellent post, well explained
 
well Pettis is fighting Gilbert Melendez next who was a college wrestler, I don't know who the #2 contender is, Thomson or Bendo I guess, both of who were college wrestlers

Jose Aldo has Mendes next, maybe Frankie Edgar after that if he beats BJ Penn, but BJ Penn technically wrestled in college himself (West Valley college), and he is American

My team competed against Melendez' in college. Always kicked their ass and couldnt stand them because they would always bring half a squad. Guess I am gonna have to root for Melendez now to keep the "Wrestler Express" on the tracks to a UFC domination sweep.

gilbert_melendez_takedown.jpg
 
No, man, that's A.C. Slater, star wrestler from Bayside High. He had offers from Iowa, Penn St., etc., but got Kelly Kapowski pregnant and had to give up wrestling. Heard he fought underground MMA for a while to help pay for diapers and stuff.

Not sure where you got your information from but that totally didn't happen in Saved By the Bell, not in the original series and not in the spin off series either.
 
This is the second post you mention athletism as the underlying factor. I believe wrestling is more about hard work, dedication, and technique than it is about being a "great athlete".

I think it's because wrestlers learn from a very young age to work there asses off and to refuse to loose.

So let's say all or even most wrestlers have that mentality. Which ones rise to the top, to win national championships, become all Americans, etc? The most athletic ones. Those are also the ones you see transitioning into MMA. Most fighters in the UFC have worked very, very hard for a very, very long time. Athleticism is a huge separating factor between 20-10th ranked guys and top 10 guys, and wrestlers who have made it through the grind of high school and college wrestling in the US have it in spades. You're starting with a very, very broad base of participation and only the most successful and athletic guys are going to stick with the sport all the way through college. The pyramid is much more narrow for BJJ, kickboxing, and (in the US) Judo, so the guys at the top have not had to overcome the same kind of opposition as elite wrestlers.

When everyone works hard and everyone is mentally tough, only the best athletes are going to rise to the top. Those are the wrestlers we see transitioning to the UFC, and they're head and shoulders above the rest in terms of athleticism. And it's a huge factor in their dominance because it lets them pick up other skills so quickly and do things that other fighters simply can't do from an athletic standpoint. Yes Dan Cormier works hard and is a great fighter, but think about how quickly he's picked up striking and submissions. Look at what he did powerbombing Dan Henderson. His speed and explosive strength are off the charts, and a guy like Glover Texiera is never going to match that no matter how hard he works. Cormier just has a higher top end, and on average anyone who's made it through the crucible of American wrestling (or Russian or Iranian wrestling, for that matter) is going to have that athleticism because otherwise they wouldn't have made it through. The gulag doesn't make you tough, it just kills off anyone who isn't tough.
 
My team competed against Melendez' in college. Always kicked their ass and couldnt stand them because they would always bring half a squad. Guess I am gonna have to root for Melendez now to keep the "Wrestler Express" on the tracks to a UFC domination sweep.

gilbert_melendez_takedown.jpg

Is anyone who wrestled automatically in the wrestler camp, even if they've trained other stuff a lot more and don't really use wrestling in their fights? Because Gil has spent at least as much time on boxing and BJJ as he has on wrestling, and typically his boxing wins his fights.
 
True. But the point is, you still need good striking to be a champion.

That's a pretty obvious point, though. So I don't really see why you are making it. No one is saying that wrestlers are winning fights with only wrestling.
 
So let's say all or even most wrestlers have that mentality. Which ones rise to the top, to win national championships, become all Americans, etc? The most athletic ones. Those are also the ones you see transitioning into MMA. Most fighters in the UFC have worked very, very hard for a very, very long time. Athleticism is a huge separating factor between 20-10th ranked guys and top 10 guys, and wrestlers who have made it through the grind of high school and college wrestling in the US have it in spades. You're starting with a very, very broad base of participation and only the most successful and athletic guys are going to stick with the sport all the way through college. The pyramid is much more narrow for BJJ, kickboxing, and (in the US) Judo, so the guys at the top have not had to overcome the same kind of opposition as elite wrestlers.

This is something that can't be understated. Every High School in the US that has more than a few hundred students has a wrestling team. In the Midwest it's practically a religion. Every year hundreds of thousands of kids are competing for what, a few hundred, maybe a thousand D1 scholarships? Every one of those kids are the most explosive athletes in their school and very very few of them will make it to D1. Of the D1 guys only a few will be all americans and win national championships, even fewer will make the olympics. These are the guys that are going into MMA.
 
Most of them aren't athletic enough. Seriously, think about the best BJJ guys in MMA: Roger, Maia, Shields, etc. Only Jacare really has the level of athleticism that's equilvalent to a high level wrestler, and he takes people down all the time. Those other guys are slow and plodding. They've managed to make that work for them to a certain level, but they'll never be shooting doubles like GSP because they have neither the speed nor the reflexes. That's why BJJ guys tend to rely on the clinch for their TDs: it doesn't require nearly the level of explosiveness, it's more about dominating grips and catching the guy off balance ala Judo. One of the things I like best about BJJ (as a not terribly athletic guy) is that technique makes up for a lack of athleticism more than in most other sports. But that's also a detriment when high level BJJ guys enter MMA, most of their technique is useless, and they need to fall back on a raw athleticism they just don't possess. Why do you think Jacare's striking has gotten so good so fast while guys with comparable BJJ achievements like Roger and Maia still look terrible on the feet? It's because Jacare is twice the athlete those guys are and as such he can pick up and execute new parts of the game without a lifetime of training.

Very premium post!
 
No, man, that's A.C. Slater, star wrestler from Bayside High. He had offers from Iowa, Penn St., etc., but got Kelly Kapowski pregnant and had to give up wrestling. Heard he fought underground MMA for a while to help pay for diapers and stuff.

Didnt Kelly married Zach in the series?
 
Is anyone who wrestled automatically in the wrestler camp, even if they've trained other stuff a lot more and don't really use wrestling in their fights? Because Gil has spent at least as much time on boxing and BJJ as he has on wrestling, and typically his boxing wins his fights.

Yes, and the opposite is true for judo, only if you have not trained anything else but judo, will you be considered a judoka, so even if a guy is a judo olympic medallist if he at some point wrestled, then he is a wrestler which means wrestling beats judo at the olympics.
 
Is anyone who wrestled automatically in the wrestler camp, even if they've trained other stuff a lot more and don't really use wrestling in their fights? Because Gil has spent at least as much time on boxing and BJJ as he has on wrestling, and typically his boxing wins his fights.

I would say anyone who grew up wrestling and dedicated their youth to that sport is a wrestler.. Gilbert was a pretty good high school wrestler and was on a decent college team. I think he comes from a wrestling family.

I wouldn't really call BJ Penn a wrestler since he started wrestling after BJJ and only wrestled for 1 season, though it was at a college.

But even someone like Cung Le was a solid junior college wrestler, and Chuck Liddell was a division 1 wrestler.
 
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