Wrestlers need to man up

[ATecce]

Let's keep the talk to UFC champs, not foreign wrestlers from weak countries who never stood a chance.

This thread is the best.

 

[SFCFighter]

well Pettis is fighting Gilbert Melendez next who was a college wrestler, I don't know who the #2 contender is, Thomson or Bendo I guess, both of who were college wrestlers

Jose Aldo has Mendes next, maybe Frankie Edgar after that if he beats BJ Penn, but BJ Penn technically wrestled in college himself (West Valley college), and he is American

 

[robotsonic]

If Dana White has his way, boring ass wrestlers aren't long for the UFC. He like sto see dudes BANG!

 

[Rod1]

If Dana White has his way, boring ass wrestlers aren't long for the UFC. He like sto see dudes BANG!

Most wrestlers in the top 5 can bang and they are succesful because they can bang, the boring ass wrestler like Fitch are thankfully a thing of the past.

 

[TheFinerDetails]

I think the real amazing change would be seeing bjj practitioners who train as hard as wrestlers, and who have the athletic ability of them also. Sort of like the way Toquinho was before he got booted out.

Edit: He couldn't stand and bang for shit. He threw flailing kicks at the stars to try and hit the gods.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

i'm not disagreeing with your overall point, but babalu and glover were both members of the brazilian national team. babalu's definitely got solid wrestling, and didn't have much problem with an undersized chael when they fought. and obviously glover has very good wrestling--he defended the td against jones and has good tds too.

They do have a national team, but that national team doesn't do anything in the international wrestling world.

 

[jclaudevandamme]

Serious question, how does brazil stack up in international wrestling?
My gut says they aren't great.
If so, why?

The situation of Wrestling in Brazil is as follow:
1. It is a very olympic focused sport. You cannot just go and train it, be on school, be otherwise. Only a few places in the whole country have trainers and it is in olympic programs. I live in the third biggest city in Brazil, 1kk+ people living here, and there is no option to train. Zero. Nada.
2. According to our Wrestling federation, there are only 8 places to train in the whole country, be on universities with olympic training centers, be on recreative places. As only the people that register themselves are listed, the number probably is bigger. Comparatively, there are more Judo places registered in my state federation than in our federal Wrestling federation. (btw, unlike many people think and I read people talking about, there are more BJJ places in the state capital than Judo places in the state).
3. The closest you can train to Wrestling is actually MMA and most MMA gyms have just basic Wrestling training. "Wrestling for MMA" classes exist too if you know the places to search but in almost all these places only professional/semi-professional MMA fighters have access to (think classes at 01:00 p.m. and focused to semi-pro and up level fighters). The closest proxy is no-gi BJJ/submission and you all know the level of standing wrestling of the average BJJ-only guy.

Brazil has a certain degree of grappling, just that there are no places to train Wrestling at all. Without some kids training from birth it is kinda hard to be good at it. 10 years ago most people barely knew what Wrestling was, even considering people that train any martial art. MMA is what increasing the interest in Wrestling but just as our fighters in this department, the growth is being slow. The fact that people wanting something near it and that will train recreatively go to BJJ or Judo does not help.
10 years from now we will have Wrestling and Sambo in more places.

 

[flowroller]

Its striking that is dominating at the minute Dillashaw,Pettis,Weidman,Aldo,Hendricks,Jones are all wanting to stand the majority of the time.

Lol this. Most of the current champs are pretty much using their wrestling to keep the fight on the feet.

 

[nohomark]

the threat of a takedown from a guy who can rough you up the top changes everything but i believe freestyle wrestling is a better base because it is the ultimate takedown art

 

[flanellograf]

I am a 135/125. TJ/DJ got that shit on lock. Mendes/Benson need to come back big this time. I have faith in their American wrestling.

I don't think Bendo has anything for Pettis. Khabib, on the other hand... but he is not American, so it doesn't count?

 

[flanellograf]

Lol this. Most of the current champs are pretty much using their wrestling to keep the fight on the feet.

So? Wrestling isn't just about top control. Just the takedown threat, and takedown defense, changes the game a lot.

 

[LaBrian]

The current ruleset bores the fuck out of me. No knees/kicks to a guy with his knee down means no penalty for failed shots, making it a way over powered weapon and shifting the competitive balance towards wrestlers. Then you've got the taped hands and padded gloves so guys aren't afraid of breaking their hands. This causes lots of mediocre kick boxing matches imo. Bring back stomps, soccer kicks, knees on the ground and bare knuckles!

 

[The Apostle]

I don't see how bringing those rules back would truly help. The wrestler can stomp and knee on the ground too right?

 

[Leify]

I don't see how bringing those rules back would truly help. The wrestler can stomp and knee on the ground too right?

It'd help make fights more exciting, at the very least, especially wrestler vs wrestler fights with stuffed shots. Knees to the head of a downed opponent at least. So tired of the "playing the game" bs and north/south not being the dangerous position it should be.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Wrestlers are by far the best athletes entering MMA. Just look at what a guy like Dillashaw could do in terms of picking up striking to the point where he looks like one of the best kickboxers in the UFC. He didn't wrestle Barao at all, but he was was a lot faster, stronger, and quicker and he made him look terrible. Jones is probably the best athlete in the UFC now that GSP is retired and he became champ after like 2.5 years of training. In general non-wrestlers just can't keep up with the D1 alums physically. Hell, look at how Cormier was able to just ragdoll people in both HW and LHW; that's a level of athleticism that non-wrestlers in MMA just don't have. BJJ and kickboxing are such niche sports that you don't necessarily have guys with elite athleticism rise to the top (simply because there aren't that many elite athletes who pick up those sports in the first place), so when they make the transition to MMA they've never dealt with guys as strong and fast as D1 all Americans and frankly can't handle it. To say nothing of how useful wrestling is as a skill set, or in building a winning mentality.

American wrestling was always just a huge pool of athletic talent that largely went wasted as there wasn't a professional route for wrestlers post college. MMA has changed that, I'm not at all surprised to see the success wrestlers have had.

 

[DiegoLunes]

When Holt goes, Holt goes hard.

Holt cums hard.

 

[flowroller]

So? Wrestling isn't just about top control. Just the takedown threat, and takedown defense, changes the game a lot.

True. But the point is, you still need good striking to be a champion.

 

[ShinkanPo]

Take downs and Take down defense IMO is the most important aspect in Basic MMA.

And Wrestlers are damn good at it.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

I remember about 5-7 years ago I was saying the next dominant style in MMA was going to be the BJJ BB who studied explosive wrestling takedowns........... Boy was I wrong!

Seems to be a bit of a stubbornness in BJJ. Wrestlers are learning submission grappling at an fast pace, but the BJJ BB who works explosive wrestling takedowns hasn't really emerged like I thought it would.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I remember about 5-7 years ago I was saying the next dominant style in MMA was going to be the BJJ BB who studied explosive wrestling takedowns........... Boy was I wrong!

Seems to be a bit of a stubbornness in BJJ. Wrestlers are learning submission grappling at an fast pace, but the BJJ BB who works explosive wrestling takedowns hasn't really emerged like I thought it would.

Most of them aren't athletic enough. Seriously, think about the best BJJ guys in MMA: Roger, Maia, Shields, etc. Only Jacare really has the level of athleticism that's equilvalent to a high level wrestler, and he takes people down all the time. Those other guys are slow and plodding. They've managed to make that work for them to a certain level, but they'll never be shooting doubles like GSP because they have neither the speed nor the reflexes. That's why BJJ guys tend to rely on the clinch for their TDs: it doesn't require nearly the level of explosiveness, it's more about dominating grips and catching the guy off balance ala Judo. One of the things I like best about BJJ (as a not terribly athletic guy) is that technique makes up for a lack of athleticism more than in most other sports. But that's also a detriment when high level BJJ guys enter MMA, most of their technique is useless, and they need to fall back on a raw athleticism they just don't possess. Why do you think Jacare's striking has gotten so good so fast while guys with comparable BJJ achievements like Roger and Maia still look terrible on the feet? It's because Jacare is twice the athlete those guys are and as such he can pick up and execute new parts of the game without a lifetime of training.