Wow, Lloyd Irvin students accused of brutal rape

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Awful.

Is it really Jordan's brother?
 
Wow. I don't know Nick Shultz personally but competed against him when we were wb's and have kept up with his progress over the years. Terrible choice man.

To the above poster, no. Nick Schultz is from Texas. No relation to Jordon S.
 
Shocked and saddened. I hope the victim is able to recover fully and lead a normal life. This is a dark day for the entire bjj community.
 
.... it hurts to read stories like this.

As was said above, innocent until proven guilty is a legal standard governing a criminal trial. It has no application to facts that are observed and reported to the public. With a video camera, there can't be any serious doubt here.
 
Holy shit man. And I thought Maldonado was Alliance NYC? Didn't know he switched to TLI.

Regardless this is deeply disturbing and hopefully justice is served.
 
Zankou said:
.... it hurts to read stories like this.

As was said above, innocent until proven guilty is a legal standard governing a criminal trial. It has no application to facts that are observed and reported to the public. With a video camera, there can't be any serious doubt here.
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I agree if there is hard evidence so be it, judge / punish accordingly all I'm saying is that we don't know facts just what was written in article which could be correct, could not be, but all that will be addressed. I am not an advocate for them or rape trust me on that, but I am an advocate for not quickly judging the situation without any hard evidence / based on an article. If there is video / evidence great lets move on and punish accordingly!!!!
 
I am very surprised that Lloyd Irvin did not comment this in any way in public. Time for some damage control...
 
devnull said:
I agree if there is hard evidence so be it, judge / punish accordingly all I'm saying is that we don't know facts just what was written in article which could be correct, could not be, but all that will be addressed. I am not an advocate for them or rape trust me on that, but I am an advocate for not quickly judging the situation without any hard evidence / based on an article. If there is video / evidence great lets move on and punish accordingly!!!!
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Do you hold every news article that you read to this standard, refusing to believe it or even discuss it until you've seen that actually source evidence for it?
 
:: Puts on Flame Suit:: They are innocent until proven guilty. I know rape is always a touchy subject but I've known Matt since I started bjj and this is really not like him. I say until both sides of the story come and they had their day in courst than no one should pass judgement. I don't remember if anyone remembers a few years ago the incident that happened in Long Island http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/17/hofstra-gang-rape-hoax-st_n_289774.html . One side of the story isn't always the whole story. Their side Her side and the truth. Also as far as a video tape goes I believe that is up to interpretation unless there is sound which I don't believe there is since she said that he said those remarks. At the end of the day my prayers go out to the alleged victim and the two guys in this unfortunate incident.
 
JCASHDAKID said:
::puts on Flame Suit:: They are innocent until proven guilty. I know rape is always a touchy subject but I've known Matt since I started bjj and this is really not like him. I say until both sides of the story come and they had their day in courst than no one should pass judgement. I don't remember if anyone remembers a few years ago the incident that happened in Long Island http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/17/hofstra-gang-rape-hoax-st_n_289774.html . One side of the story isn't always the whole story. Their side Her side and the truth. Also as far as a video tape goes I believe that is up to interpretation unless there is sound which I don't believe there is since she said that he said those remarks. At the end of the day my prayers go out to the alleged victim and the two guys in this unfortunate incident.
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Is this a court? Are you a defense attorney?

Then stop spouting off the legal standard for a criminal court of law here in a public forum.
 
devnull said:
Until the whole story comes out in legal form ie court / and everyone has testified. Your choice to go around tentatively concluding based on news articles. Who cares if they were Lloyd students are not rape is evil period. To associate rape based on your affiliation that is a stretch to far of any means, that's like saying all rapists who are from Brazil, so all Brazilians are evil. But nice troll comment though, really helps no one.
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These are two separate issues.

I agree that it's totally unwarranted to draw any negative inferences about TLI or its students. Nothing that we've heard suggests that anyone at TLI did anything wrong except for the two alleged rapists. I'm sure that Lloyd and his students are more shocked, horrified, and outraged about this tragedy than anyone.

But unless you believe that the major news outlets involved are just making everything up, it's hard to doubt the rapists' guilt at this point. We don't need to wait for the victim to testify in open court, because we already know her story via the court filings that the media are quoting from. The fact that this was a rape committed by two individuals the victim knew, rather than a stranger, makes it dramatically less likely that they have the wrong men. We haven't seen the surveillance video ourselves, but the police and the DA have, and they're convinced it documents a brutal rape.

What information are you expecting to come out that will exonerate the rapists? What story could they plausibly tell to convince us they are innocent?
 
i hope they spend the rest of their lives rotting in prison.
 
Drew Foster said:
No he is not realted to Jordon.

BTW if this becomes about Lloyd Irvin my head just might explode!
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Shouldn't it be at least a little about Lloyd Irvin? How could all these dudes living with these two guys not notice they are sadistic fucks? This had to have been a scenario they'd already planned, I can't see two guys simultaneously gang raping a girl without previous discussion or even events.
 
Jagcorps_esq said:
Do you hold every news article that you read to this standard, refusing to believe it or even discuss it until you've seen that actually source evidence for it?
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In all things life I want the whole picture before taking a strong side either way. Am I strongly against rape, YES. Should they be punished if they committed the crimes, YES. It's just a lifestyle I have never to judge or assume guilt until the whole thing comes out. Plus I am not the one deciding I am not a judge or a legal entity or whatever. But yes we can have a discussion all day I have no problem with that either just a philosophy that's all. Does that clear things up for you? ( and no I am not trying to be argumentative )
 
This part of the article is very bad for all those saying...."don't pass judgement."

At the end of the report, the police said the two suspects left the victim on the concrete. A passerby later heard her cries for help.


That doesn't usually happen with consensual sex. Just sayin.
 
Zankou said:
.... it hurts to read stories like this.

As was said above, innocent until proven guilty is a legal standard governing a criminal trial. It has no application to facts that are observed and reported to the public. With a video camera, there can't be any serious doubt here.
Click to expand...

The fact they left her on the ground is pretty damning. If they had taken her home afterward, I could envision them trying to claim the encounter was somehow consentual. That claim would fall apart given footage showing her being too drunk to stand, mind you, but as it stands there's absolutely no way I can imagine for them to even try to defend their actions in court.
 
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