Would weight ranges (for each class) and same day weight in's be better than weight cutting?

Ummm almost all of them weigh over 191. Hendricks has come in over 200. Rory is 200 in camp. Condit is one of the smaller top guys and he is I think 190-191. GSP is the smallest top WW and he is 185-187.

All the top LW fighters would now be in WW, many of them are way over 170.

No you are wrong. Do you actually believe Johny Hendricks is weighing more than 30 pounds in waterweight on the night of the fight?

Hendricks is only +200lbs when he is fat and out of shape and not in training camp.

There is no way he is 200lbs when inside the cage. Someone posted before Hendricks a weight like 176 in shape.

Even Brock, Carwin and Big foot don't cut +30lbs of water weight. You'll kill yourself doing that.

Rory may be 200lbs in camp but he isn't 200lbs when inside the cage fighting. And that is what we are talking about.
 
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For how i see it they will still try to be bigger as possible at that weight

Size is not just height like many sherdoggers seem believe (think at threads about tall fighters ducking upper divisions lol), but is'nt even only weight itself

Weight, height, range, leverage, bones tickness and overall body structure

They will still try be the bigger man sacrificing just the weight/mass but keeping height, range, bigger bones etc

Same day will just make them renounce to some muscle mass

Overall i think it will make it slighty more fair for more "honest" short muscle bulldogs, because at least they will have the clear advantage on muscle department

My 2cents is that who have the chin/hands to try his luck at next upper division may be pushed to do it by same day weighin (and probably not do well), but everyone else will just accept to lose some strenght/power... wich will be kinda accetable for them since also many opponents will be less strong and powerful.

I think we will see more or less the same fighters in the same WD, just a lil bit weaker with peaks of that for biggest cutters

The ones that will say nevah!! to lose some muscle mass will arrive on the cage in Irvin (vs Sakara) shape and probably perform bad

We will see less KOs and finishes and more points decision
Also more excuses for bad performance if xxx fighter that night does'nt seem his usual self
No one should care about natural frame size. If they weigh in and fight at the same weight that is all that should matter. Kendell Grove is not at an advantage over Palharas or vice.versa simply because of their frame. Just make sure they come in the same weight as that is all that matters.
 
For how i see it they will still try to be bigger as possible at that weight

Size is not just height like many sherdoggers seem believe (think at threads about tall fighters ducking upper divisions lol), but is'nt even only weight itself

Weight, height, range, leverage, bones tickness and overall body structure

They will still try be the bigger man sacrificing just the weight/mass but keeping height, range, bigger bones etc

Same day will just make them renounce to some muscle mass

Overall i think it will make it slighty more fair for more "honest" short muscle bulldogs, because at least they will have the clear advantage on muscle department

My 2cents is that who have the chin/hands to try his luck at next upper division may be pushed to do it by same day weighin (and probably not do well), but everyone else will just accept to lose some strenght/power... wich will be kinda accetable for them since also many opponents will be less strong and powerful.

I think we will see more or less the same fighters in the same WD, just a lil bit weaker with peaks of that for biggest cutters

The ones that will say nevah!! to lose some muscle mass will arrive on the cage in Irvin (vs Sakara) shape and probably perform bad

We will see less KOs and finishes and more points decision
Also more excuses for bad performance if xxx fighter that night does'nt seem his usual self

If you want more finishes then get rid of USADA and change the rules. Simply allowing upkicks, knees to the head, and fixing the eye poke rule (fingers outstreched), and allowing kidney kicks would change a lot. You don't even have to go full pride by allowing soccer kicks and stomps. Knees to head and upkicks are more than enough to severely change the game and cause more action. Same with allowing kidney kicks from inside guard.
 
No one should care about natural frame size. If they weigh in and fight at the same weight that is all that should matter. Kendell Grove is not at an advantage over Palharas or vice.versa simply because of their frame. Just make sure they come in the same weight as that is all that matters.

Kendall Grove was weak for his weight class (when he was at 185lbs) and his height and it showed in his fights. His optimum weight class (if he actually lifted weights and did a proper bulk and cut cycles). Would be above MW. Hence why he eventually moved to LHW. And still he isn't fighting top dogs anymore, and I can't imagine him beating any of the top LHWs. They'd manhandle him and a reason for that is strength.

There are always exceptions. For example Cormier carrys a high body fat % relative to other LHWs and he is short for a LHW. However, he is still very strong, powerful and one of the heavier LHWs last I checked.
 
Cutting weight is something I really hate in combat sports, maybe even more than PED's. Torturing yourself and risking your health, so you don't have a disadvantage at fight night (because almost everybody cuts weight nowadays). So it's not only about your fighting skills, but also about your ability to cut weight.

I don't have a good solution though, but it would be nice if everybody fought in the weight class they actually belong based on fight night weight. And keep the weight classes as they are, fighters would just have to move up one or two weight classes. Heavyweight would get more interesting for sure.
 
If you want more finishes then get rid of USADA and change the rules. Simply allowing upkicks, knees to the head, and fixing the eye poke rule (fingers outstreched), and allowing kidney kicks would change a lot. You don't even have to go full pride by allowing soccer kicks and stomps. Knees to head and upkicks are more than enough to severely change the game and cause more action. Same with allowing kidney kicks from inside guard.

Aside what i want, make everyone "lighter" will cause this change, for good or bad

Weight tend to increase more the ability to inflict a KO than the ability to resist one

Said that yes, rule changes will increase finishes
 
Kendall Grove was weak for his weight class (when he was at 185lbs) and his height and it showed in his fights. His optimum weight class (if he actually lifted weights and did a proper bulk and cut cycles). Would be above MW. Hence why he eventually moved to LHW. And still he isn't fighting top dogs anymore, and I can't imagine him beating any of the top LHWs. They'd manhandle him and a reason for that is strength.

There are always exceptions. For example Cormier carrys a high body fat % relative to other LHWs and he is short for a LHW. However, he is still very strong, powerful and one of the heavier LHWs last I checked.

You are making my point.

There are advantages and disadvantages to any frame type.

If you are somewhat on the taller and lankier side of the division you will likely have advantages in reach and height that you can hope to apply mostly in striking arts, but give up advantages to your more stout opponents who are more thickly muscled and stronger and typically have an advantage in grappling you.

Kendall was a top MW for a good amount of time which means he beat a lot of guys despite being 'weak' as you say. So he was a fine MW when he fought in that division. Guys like Grove at MW and Palharas at MW are not exceptions that do not belong at MW. They proved they belonged by the high level of success they had. They also prove that 'natural frames' in a division can come in a RANGE of sizes and be effective depending on the skill of the fighter to utilize them. Certain frames may be more TYPICAL in a division but that does not mean they cannot compete and do not belong in other divisions as well. That is proven or disproven through success or lack there of.

The only thing that SHOULD matter come fight time in terms of judging the opponents sizes is their weigh in AND in cage weight. IF your goal is to make it a 'fair fight' based on the guys competing being the same size then that is all you need to manage.
 
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If we kept the current range of weight classes and ended weight cutting it would destroy the UFC. Since your average WW's are 5'10 and weight 185 to 190lbs on fight night. Having the WW max limit be 170 would cause everyone to have to drop a weight class (meaning drop lots of muscle mass). And remember that GSP was a perfect example of the ideal weight and athleticism for his height and he would weigh188lbs or so. Fighters like prime GSP, Hughes, current Lawler, Hendricks, Woodley, gastellum are too built, stocky, to cut to LW and be in optimum shape. And they all lack the height and frame that MW's have. Thus they wouldn't be able to successfully fight at MW.


For example. Imagine same day weigh-in's and they do dehydration tests to make sure you aren't dehydrated (i.e. trying to cut). A fighter must be hydrated and then the fight starts a few hours later and they weight again right before the fight. Any fighter who weighs over the max limit for each division will not be allowed to fight if they miss weight by more than 1lbs (2lbs as weight classes go up).

Women's divisions .

Atomweight (If it ever happens).= 105lbs to 116lbs.

Straweight= 115lbs to 125lbs

Flyweight (if it ever happens). = 125lbs to 140lbs.

Bantamweight= 135lbs to 151lbs

Feathweight (if it ever happens). = 145lbs to 170lbs.



Men's divisions

Flyweight division= 125lbs to 140lbs.

Bantamweight division= 135lbs to 150lbs.

Featherweight division= 145lbs to 160lbs. (Connor would have to move up to LW, which as a Connor fan I'd be happy for).

Lightweight division = 155lbs to 170lbs. Fighters can't weight more than 171lbs and must be hydrated.

Welterweight division= 170lbs to 191lbs. Fighters can't weight more than 191lbs. (This wouldn't be an issue since GSP and all WW Weight less than 192lbs during fight night). Another 2 pounds to shed of fat wouldn't be hard.

Middleweight division= 185lbs to 208lbs. (This again works since the basically all MW's are 200lbs to 205lbs).

Light heavyweight division = 205lbs to 230lbs. (Again this works because no LHW is cutting 30lbs of water weight and then weighting in 30lbs heavier as far as I know.)

Heavyweight division= 230lbs to 285lbs. Fighters can't weight more than 286lbs.


To me this would be perfect. It would only really effect the lower weight classes. Since FW are only 10lbs away from the LW minimum weight and most FW are actually fighting at a comfortable 150lbs to 160lbs. Still though FW are shorter on average and smaller frames than LW's, so LW wouldn't try for the cut since they wouldn't be allowed to dehydrate themselves. It also, prevents +6ft MW from trying to cut to WW as easily.
Why do people think the weight classes themselves are the problem? Same weight classes as today and same day weigh-in and "dehydration tests" would have the exact same results as what you are proposing.
 
The current weight cutting system is the worst plan...except for all other plans. :(

Moving weigh-ins to same day will eventually cause a dehydrated fighter to die in the ring, which is exactly weigh-ins happen before the fight. The current monitoring restrictions (no IVs, maximum weight ranges at designated times from the event, etc.) are good steps, but day-of weigh-ins are practically begging to get a fighter killed.
 
I'd like to see same day weigh ins. It's the safest, and most fair system for ALL fighters. It will happen. It's just a matter of time.

False. Boxing already tried and it just led to guys still trying to cut weight, more guys missing weight and title fights being cancelled.

The commissions just gave the fighters more time to rehydrate. They aren't gonna go back in the complete opposite direction and make same day weigh ins.
 
There is no way he is 200lbs when inside the cage. Someone posted before Hendricks a weight like 176 in shape.

Even Brock, Carwin and Big foot don't cut +30lbs of water weight. You'll kill yourself doing that.

Whoever thinks Hendricks is 176 lbs in shape and only cutting 6 lbs of water and shaking and dying on the scale and unable to make weight or lose another 1/4 lb needs to do some more research or actually try cutting weight.

You also really don't understand how much weight these fighters are capable of cutting. http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/11/ronda-rousey-lost-17-pounds-in-one-day-to-make-a-point

Ronda lost 17lbs in a day to prove a point on tuf. And you don't think lesnar can lose 13 more lbs than ronda? LOL

When forrest Griffin fought in ireland, he said he got off the plane in ireland at the beginning of fight week at 240 lbs and made 205 lbs 5 days later.

Also, Jeremy Stephens (145lb FW) was on rogans podcast a couple days ago and said he weighed 176 lbs that day.
 
No one should care about natural frame size. If they weigh in and fight at the same weight that is all that should matter. Kendell Grove is not at an advantage over Palharas or vice.versa simply because of their frame. Just make sure they come in the same weight as that is all that matters.

Actually if you're a fighter you should care

Bones are underrated as fuck by sherdog, but actually are relevant as muscles

Tick bones help take punishment more than muscles, frame leverage can "increase" your strenght, range can win strike battles

Most will try to keep all that and sacrifice muscle mass (and maybe gain some extra cardio), but many will also try to keep muscle and do bad cut -> bad performance

More or less the same fighters will be in the same division
You will see some more Condit/DiazBros/Gus body types but also bad-cut-Irvin ones
 
Actually if you're a fighter you should care

Bones are underrated as fuck by sherdog, but actually are relevant as muscles

Tick bones help take punishment more than muscles, frame leverage can "increase" your strenght, range can win strike battles

Most will try to keep all that and sacrifice muscle mass (and maybe gain some extra cardio), but many will also try to keep muscle and do bad cut -> bad performance

More or less the same fighters will be in the same division
You will see some more Condit/DiazBros/Gus body types but also bad-cut-Irvin ones

Sure they are and so is muscle density and power and strength all of which typically are greater in the more stocky fighters.

There is a reason why most champs of this sport tend towards the more normal range of height and reach per the divisions top guys in the sport and not the extremes. Sure Semmy had height and reach on Fedor but Fedor had power and strength on him. Had Semmy won and became GOAT people would say 'oh, unfair height and reach' but no one says to Fedor 'oh unfair strength and power' and yet it is the same thing. They are just different strengths to leverage.
 
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No you are wrong. Do you actually believe Johny Hendricks is weighing more than 30 pounds in waterweight on the night of the fight?
I am not wrong moron Hendricks himself has admitted it. Before the GSP fight he said he has walked into the octagon over 200lbs and he was a little smaller now.
 
I am not wrong moron Hendricks himself has admitted it. Before the GSP fight he said he has walked into the octagon over 200lbs and he was a little smaller now.

Bull prove it. Anderson Silva barely weighed 200 (lbs) pounds and he was a damn MW.

You are a liar and don't know anything about weight cutting if you seriously think fighters are cutting +30lbs of water weight and then weighing +30lbs heavier on the night of the fight, a day after weigh ins.

Hendricks also, called Dana White and told him 2 days before weigh ins that he was 196lbs and would not be able to make weight unless he took a very dangerous cut. And Dana said on the UFC (inside/access crap) that he told Hendricks it's fine and not worth him risking his life to Mae such a dangerous cut... Oh and by the way Hendricks had to go to the Hospitsl!!!

So Hendricks two days out from weigh ins is 26lbs over and has 2lbs of water weight to lose and can't do it. Hence Hendricks pulled out of the Tyrone Woodley fight (and Woodley spoke about this as well recently).

You sound like the same confused kids who post on here about fighter xyz cutting 50 pounds. Or some bullshit.

http://mmajunkie.com/2015/10/ufc-sc...ndricks-vs-tyron-woodley-ufc-192-co-headliner

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2117306-johnny-hendricks-added-weight-wont-help-gsp-in-rematch

^^ here a bulked up GSP (after he quit fighting is, and GSP says he weighs 200lbs which is +10 pounds more than the most he ever weighted. The most he ever weighed was 190lns.

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/j...-weigh-in-weighed-195-2-this-morning.2694959/

"I've killed my body way too much," Hendricks told MMA Fighting. "That's not even counting college. That's not even counting high school and that's not even counting middle school. I've been cutting weight literally since I was 13 years old. I'm 32. Yeah, I know how to cut weight, but there's a point where your body just wants to be done with it."

Giordano said Hendricks has already hit 180 and his walking around in the low 180s around two weeks before his fight with Stephen Thompson at UFC 196 on Feb. 6 in Las Vegas.
By the time he arrives for fight week, Giordano hopes there's only about six or seven pounds left to cut. Hendricks has looked shredded in recent pictures he's posted on social media -- a major departure from the past. Previously, Hendricks would arrive on fight week up to 20 pounds off."

http://www.mmafighting.com/2016/1/2...s-nutritionist-vows-to-improve-weight-cut-ive


The idea, Giordano said, is to not dehydrate. He hates the term "weight cut," because that implies losing weight in an unhealthy, extreme way. Giordano, a New Jersey native, has a degree in exercise science, is a certified weight management specialist and has been working in and health and fitness for 15 years.



"There's a big difference between dehydrating yourself and losing weight while still being hydrated," he said. "The goal is to make sure they're 100 percent when they step in the cage and it's actually impossible to dehydrate yourself and be 100 percent in 24 hours."

In MMA, fighters want to be as big as possible -- bigger than their opponents, if possible -- going into a fight. It is a culture taken from amateur wrestling. Giordano, who was a wrestler from the age of 5, said it doesn't really make sense. A major weight cut is only going to hamper a fighter's performance, he added, and that is backed up by medical science.



"Size has no affect on strength," Giordano said. "Just because you're walking around and you're bigger doesn't mean you're necessarily stronger. It's basic physics -- more mass equals slower speed. So in essence you're going to be slower if you put on a lot more mass for that fight. It's a really big misconception. Like doctors said, it's impossible to dehydrate yourself to where you're cutting nine, 10 pounds in two hours to step on a scale and then refuel, rehydrate and be 100 percent."


"Hendricks and his former nutrition guru, Mike Dolce, parted ways earlier this year. "Bigg Rigg" used some of Dolce's principles for weight cuts after the split, but strayed from his initial plan before his training camp for Woodley. Dolce has criticized Hendricks for getting too far out of shape in the offseason, a fact that Hendricks does not necessarily dispute.

"I made the wrong decisions on how to eat and what to eat," Hendricks said. "It goes back to me just sitting here saying, 'I don't know anything about it, let's get somebody who does.' I was being like, 'Hey, I got this.' It cost me and I want to make sure it never costs me again. That's where Louis comes in."


HENDRICKS HIMSELF SAYS HE IS NORMALLY (OR HE USED TO NORMALLY BE 195LBS to 200LBS) NOT MORE THAN 200 pounds.

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/for...cks-I-weigh-195-200-lb-in-the-octagon:2250517

http://mmajunkie.com/2015/10/coach-explains-johny-hendricks-ufc-192-weight-issues


^^ However, since the GSP fight and at least until the Matt Brown fight Hendricks was at 195 or right under. As said by his trainer.

“Last camp, for the fight with Matt Brown, we had made a pact that he wouldn’t get above 195 – and he did that successfully for that camp,” Ramirez said. “He stayed under 195. Last camp was one of the best weight camps we’ve ever had in the history of Johny’s fighting career. He did everything right, stayed on the diet and was where we wanted him to be.

“This camp he came in around 210 or 205, which is a little too heavy for our liking. I think that’s the biggest factor in this camp – just coming in too heavy and starting his meal prep a little bit too late.”

Hendricks remained heavier than his team members wanted as fight week drew near, which led them to expect a rough weight cut in the days leading up to Friday’s weigh-ins. But no one expected the disaster of a trip to the emergency room and a canceled bout due to


^^^ MEANING HE WAS OVER 200LBS BEFORE THE WEIGHT CAMP STARTED AND WAS NOT GOING TO WEIGH THAT MUCH DURING FIGHT NIGHT OR IN CAMP.


Johny is likely done as a fighter and it has showed the guy had hurt his body too much. He will likely lose his next fight and what will that be 5 losses in the past 7 fights?
 
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There already are weight ranges for each division (e.g. MW = 171-185; LHW = 186 - 205; etc), all you're doing is moving every weight class up one notch.
 
There already are weight ranges for each division (e.g. MW = 171-185; LHW = 186 - 205; etc), all you're doing is moving every weight class up one notch.

I am saying move up the weight classes though.

Because, otherwise everyone in their current weight divisions would have to drop to a lower weight class and could only do the by dropping significant size. Or they would have to fight in the next highest division. The biggest difference would be in divisions lower than MW and in LHW.

WW are most optimum at 180 to 190lbs and won't typically weigh more than that. Also, consider that most WW are 5'9, 5'10, or 5'11 and in between those heights. A few are lanky 6fters and 6'1 guys. In any case though making them fight at MW would be dumb. Because then most MW would move up to LHW since they wouldn't be in at an optimum weight anymore.

AND then MWs would become LHW and LHW would have to move to HW. And then HW who cut weight would have nowhere to go.

It would be better to just allow a 15-20lb weight range. For each weight class and to keep each weight class at its 'max' current weight (for example 170lbs is the WW max currently). However, you'd add 20lbs and thus allow fighters the chance to weigh between 170lbs to 190lbs and no more.
Lower weight classes would likely see a 15lb difference. LHW in my opinion should have the highest range added (25lbs) allowing fighters to weigh between 205lbs to 230lbs. HW would extend its 265lbs limit to only 285lbs.
 
it took someone dying for this to be implemented in one fc. will take a death to get this done in ufc? more than one death?
 
Your idea is crap and so is your grammar. "Fighters can't weight more than 171lbs and must be hydrated.". The word is WEIGH. There is no T the way you said it. I weigh 200 lbs. My weight is 200lbs.
 
I am saying move up the weight classes though.

Because, otherwise everyone in their current weight divisions would have to drop to a lower weight class and could only do the by dropping significant size. Or they would have to fight in the next highest division. The biggest difference would be in divisions lower than MW and in LHW.

WW are most optimum at 180 to 190lbs and won't typically weigh more than that. Also, consider that most WW are 5'9, 5'10, or 5'11 and in between those heights. A few are lanky 6fters and 6'1 guys. In any case though making them fight at MW would be dumb. Because then most MW would move up to LHW since they wouldn't be in at an optimum weight anymore.

AND then MWs would become LHW and LHW would have to move to HW. And then HW who cut weight would have nowhere to go.

It would be better to just allow a 15-20lb weight range. For each weight class and to keep each weight class at its 'max' current weight (for example 170lbs is the WW max currently). However, you'd add 20lbs and thus allow fighters the chance to weigh between 170lbs to 190lbs and no more.
Lower weight classes would likely see a 15lb difference. LHW in my opinion should have the highest range added (25lbs) allowing fighters to weigh between 205lbs to 230lbs. HW would extend its 265lbs limit to only 285lbs.
There already IS a 15-20 lb range, it seems like you want to add more weight classes in some cases (205-230 division) but want to change WW from 156-170 to 156-190. Or would your WW division be 170-190, essentially making it MW?

I just don't get what you're trying to accomplish here. Changing the name of MW to WW isn't going to get fighters to stop cutting, they'd fight at the same weight and cut down to the new "light weight" division.
 
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