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Would It Be Beneficial For Some Athletes To Add 1/2 & 1/4 Squats?

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Big H, Sep 29, 2010.

  1. Big H

    Big H Blue Belt

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    Alongside their regular squats?

    I was thinking of a lot of sports, from sprinting to even jumping, where the athlete doesnt come that low and they need to generate a lot of power from a slight/small bend in the knee(s).

    Would it be worth doing anyway to help you get used to heavy weights?

    Or would training this way result in some kind of muscular imbalances?
     
  2. MASShole

    MASShole Get it?

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    There's some usefulness to them depending on the application requirements.
     
  3. paolo27th

    paolo27th Black Belt

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    Sure, depending on the sport they may even be more important than full squats.
     
  4. Searcher

    Searcher Yellow Belt

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    What do they normally do?
     
  5. Ghost Ape

    Ghost Ape Yellow Belt

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    The thing is that the 1/4 and 1/2 don't work the glutes and hamstrings nearly as much. So even though a sprinter or jumper may not even bend below parallel, hamstring and glute strength still needs to be there.

    At least that's my understanding of the situation
     
  6. Fedorable

    Fedorable 1/1024th Mod

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    In your eyes.
    is this an excuse so you don't have to squat properly and then tell all your friends how you squat huge numbers?
     
  7. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    That's my understanding as well. Iirc the glutes are the biggest contributor to jumping, and sprinting, as well as many other movements. Which means even if a 1/2 squat or 1/4 seems more similar, the greater amount of glute training in a full squat makes it the better exercise for improving those movements.

    Improve your squat, and Drill X (where x is sprinting, jumping etc). When that stops resullting in improvements despite your squat increasing, gradually start including explosive exercises, like Box jumps, broad jumps, olympic lifts or dynamic effort work.
     
  8. miaou

    miaou barely keeping it together

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    This is correct. There are sports where heavy half squats would be more important for sport performance and heavy full squats for injury prevention/knee health.
     
  9. milano

    milano I am the Walrus

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    I ran 60m pre surgery. Never had to go deeper than half squat, no need to.

    That and power cleans was the only type of weight training required.
     
  10. LZD

    LZD Purple Belt

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    So by this you mean parallel?
     
  11. ExtremeStandard

    ExtremeStandard Yellow Belt

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    I've never heard of the benefits of doing 1/4 squats anywhere for any sport. Now 1/2 squats otherwise known as parallel squats well people everywhere do those depending on their goals and you still can get stronger leg muscles from those. I mean full squats activate more muscles during the lift, but parallel squats still get the job done decently.
     
  12. eastNYgoon138

    eastNYgoon138 Green Belt

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    Most track coaches consider a full squat unnecessary and only use heavy 1/4 squats (with heavy cleans)
     
  13. miaou

    miaou barely keeping it together

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    Half squats is to knees at ~90 degrees flexion (which is slightly above parallel). The exact depth is mandated by the movements of the specific sport.



    I still think that some work in full squats would be valuable in terms of injury prevention. Of course the closer you get to an event, the more sport specific exercises you would do (thus less full squatting).
     
  14. ExtremeStandard

    ExtremeStandard Yellow Belt

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    Well that's something I learned then eh. I guess there a sport that consider 1/4 squats useful. Thank you for enlighening me.

    I mean obviously if a specific event doesn't have any use for full squats then obviously it not needed as much. But in terms of general physical programming in most sports 1/4 squats are not known to me at least as anything benefical to the athlete. (Except track. eastNYgoon)
     
  15. Prodigal Son

    Prodigal Son Brown Belt

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    Those track coaches should stick to working on sprint form and sprint specific drills instead of giving much advice in the weight room...

    When you're doing squats or almost any weight training you're are not mimicking the sport specific skill but working on optimal neuromuscular and strength adaptions for your sport. Increased ROM when weight training has a lot of benefits for those adaptions. As an athlete you simply are going to recruit way more muscles and develop way better overall leg str/glut development by doing full squats. You don't need to force ATG though...Also the closest I can think to replicating a motor movement with weights with some benefits are jump squats and those are still used in short supply and are nothing really like a standing vertical jump, mainly for rate of force development.
     
  16. Big H

    Big H Blue Belt

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    people are ignoring that i said "Alongside their regular squats?"

    that way they can enjoy benefits of full depth, and the increased load of 1/2 and 1/4 squats as power is lost through when the knees are flexed deep.

    also from a strength perspective-
    i see people do board presses, jerk dips etc. isnt the equivalent for squats to do them heavy with smaller ROM?
     
  17. Prodigal Son

    Prodigal Son Brown Belt

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    I don't think that matters that you're doing it alongside "reg squats" and a waste of time you're never going to be able tap into the proposed benefits of the higher load achieved from a 1/4 squat when doing an abrupt athletic motor movement anyway, what I would be trying to achieve in the weight room as an athlete would be physiological adaptions that aid best in str/rate of force development. Just seems like adding unnecessary stuff to your routine and taking specificity a bit too far.
     
  18. Big H

    Big H Blue Belt

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    fair enough
     
  19. PWR1982

    PWR1982 Green Belt

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    I would say that partial back squats, like front squats, are useful. They put more of quad strength into play, and quads are very important for say standing vertical jump. So for someone who wants to improve their standing vertical, this could be a useful tool once they are very experienced and get their front squat to 2x bw.
     
  20. miaou

    miaou barely keeping it together

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    And I suppose that optimal neuromuscular and strength adaptions for your sport has nothing to do with the ROM where the muscles work for that particular sport. I suppose that working the full ROM will provide optimal neuromuscular and strength adaptions for your sport, even through the weakest part of the strength curve is bellow half-squat depth, which means you are limited in training the sport-specific ROM with sub-maximal weights.

    Do you have any sources to support that training the increased ROM, with less weight moved at that, has better benefits in terms of neuromuscular and strength adaptations for the sport-specific ROM than training the limited ROM used in the sport movement?



    Also, I don't understand the "You don't need to force ATG though" statement. You either do full-ROM or you do limited ROM. Whether it is ATG or not depends on the squat style, personal anthropometry and personal flexibility. Unless you mean that you don't need to go full-ROM but you do need to at least break parallel?
     

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